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8th Edition: 2000 vs Brettonia 
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Warrior

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:20 pm
Posts: 67
Hi all,

Next opponent on my list is Bretonnia! My opponent typically fields 2-3 busses of Grail Knights, a Trebuchet, 2 Damsels (Life/Heavens), a few small units of mounted Yeoman and men at arms, and masses of peasant bowmen, plus various lords and heroes (he has been debating deploying the Green Knight against me).

As I recently acquired 37 Witch Elves, a Cauldron of Blood, and a mounted sorceress, I would love to play with my new models! Here's what I have been tossing around:

Lords
Supreme Sorceress, Level 4 Lore of Metal, Cloak of Twilight, Dark Steed
Heroes
Death Hag, BSB, Cauldron of Blood, Fencer's Blades, Rampagers Standard
Core
5x Dark Riders, Muso, XBows, Shields
10x Darkshards, Muso
30x Witch Elves, Muso, Hag, Razor Standard
Special
5x Cold One Knights, Full Command, Ranger's Standard
2x RBT
5x Shades, Great Weapons
Hydra, Breath Weapon
Rare
5x Doomfire Warlocks, Master of Warlocks

This actually puts me at 2075 so I need to cut 75 points. I'm somewhat worried about the Witch Elves block just being avoided the whole game so am considering fielding them differently; additionally his lance of knights get to go 3 cavalry bases wide=75mm so to maximize frontage I only need 5 witch elves, right?
I would like to change the mounted sorceress to a Lvl 1/2 Dark with Tome of Furion and Dispel Scroll, and run the Supreme with a block of something (perhaps the Darkshards?) but don't know what to cut to make that work.
Am I way off the mark with this list? What should I cut/add?
Thanks very much as always!


Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:56 pm
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Easy way to trim points is to remove the Rampagers standard from your BSB as it is illegal (cannot take a magic standard + other magic items).

Witch Elves might struggle with Knight Armour, even with the Razor standard. Their ASF will help to cut down the enemy, but some more anti-armour would be useful (aside from Lore of Metal).

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:33 am
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Generalissimo
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 3666
Location: Baltimore
+1 to T.D.'s excellent points. Also, why is your BSB taking fencer's blades? The boost from WS6 to 10 isn't really going to make that much difference, especially as Dark Elves have ASF in 8th edition, so you are re-rolling misses (and with poison, re-rolling those 3s allows you to aim for more 6s).

Knights are a worry, but I'm actually more concerned by the massed archery that he has at his disposal. Between the trebuchet, yeomen, and peasant archers, he can easily cut your T3 and poor saves army to ribbons. Good Brettonnian armies tend to take one of two main strategies, both frustrating for all-rounder Dark Elf lists: 1) massive charge with his cavalry into your front lines. While you try to cope with that, his missile forces sit safely on the other side of the board and hammer you with death from afar. 2) the tin can strategy - his knights sit interspersed between his units of archers. If you try to charge his archers, he countercharges with his knights. If you stay back, he pummels you with missile fire while you stand there helpless.

In both cases, the answer for Dark Elves is fairly simple: You have a need for speed.

I know your models may be limited, but if possible I would try to add some more dark riders, shades, harpies (although they did get a nerf in the final dark elf book), pegasus riders, and even warlocks. I would ditch the two Reaper Bolt Throwers, drop the witch elves to 21 in number (because the Cauldron takes up 9 spaces, you only need 21 to make a horde), drop the Fencing blades from your BSB, and drop the Rampagers's Standard (too expensive for what it does) and Ranger's Standard (also too expensive for what it does - replace it with the standard of swiftness if you want, as it's 20 points cheaper and is actually useful) to generate some of the points you'd need to do it.

The reason for speed being essential is that if he takes strategy 1, you can meet the knights charge with your can opener unit (here that would be the witch elves), while rapidly rushing your fast units around the flanks (overpowering his own flanking units if need be). Then you can hit his missile units and destroy them, while hopefully repelling or at least stalling his big knight's charge until you can circle your flankers back around and defeat him. If he takes strategy 2, you can charge his missile units from quite far away and then when he counters with his knights, your can opener units can rush in behind and rout them in turn.

I know that you only have limited models, but I would try to use what you have to pursue that strategy as best as you can. Otherwise, those witch elves may be splatted elves. For that end, I would try to emphasize the hydra and cold one knights as flanking forces (in addition to the obvious flankers of the dark riders and the warlocks) and use your crossbowmen (and reapers if you must take them) against his flanking units rather than his central force. A couple of dead grail knights is going to be less important for your flanking strategy than a unit or two of fast cavalry cleared out of the way so that your dark riders, cold one knights, warlocks, and hydra can rush around and take out those blocks of peasant bowmen and trebuchet more quickly.

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:31 pm
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Warrior

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:20 pm
Posts: 67
Thank you so much for this excellent advice! I have done some list tweaking and think it is in a better place. Speaking to my opponent I learned he is actually only taking 10-12 peasant bowmen and 1 trebuchet, instead fielding 4 blocks of knights, a Green Knight, and a level 2 and level 4 Lore of Life.
In previous games my opponent likes to sit back and wait for charges in the last few turns of the game. To win the missiles war I take the 2 RBT and the Darkshards. I have tweaked things to allow for a Level 2 sorceress on a dark steed and dismounting the level 4, going to stick her with the 10 Darkshards I think, though I worry that isn't much protection... hoping to keep that block near enough to the Witch Elves that my flanking units can deter any charges against her unit. It will be risky but if I can win the stalling/shooting/magic fight I should be able to win the game.
I am a little worried about the Green Knight as my army doesn't have a combat lord/hero with magic weapons to meet him head-to-head so I will be reliant on flinging spells or combat resolution to take him out, he is a pesky one. Any advice on dealing with him?


Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:38 pm
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Warrior

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:20 pm
Posts: 67
Further tweaks abound as gametime draws nearer! Realizing I need to save some power dice for the Cauldron of Blood's bound spell and having two casters already in the SS and Warlocks, I decided to scrap the lvl 2 Dark in favor of a mounted Master with Obsidian Blade to help add punch to the Dark Steeds on the flank and also deal with the Green Knight if need be. Here's the list now:
Lords
Supreme Sorceress, Level 4 Lore of Metal, Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation, Dark Steed
Heroes
Death Hag, BSB, Cauldron of Blood, Standard of Swiftness
Master, Dark Steed, Heavy Armor, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Obsidian Blade
Core
5x Dark Riders, Muso, XBows, Shields
10x Darkshards, Muso
21x Witch Elves, Full Command
Special
5x Cold One Knights, Full Command
2x RBT
5x Shades, Great Weapons
Hydra, Breath Weapon
Rare
5x Doomfire Warlocks

Total: 1998

Is this the right call, or should I remove the Sorceress from her steed and get 2 extra Witch Elves instead? Should I go for the second sorceress instead of the Master?


Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:01 am
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