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8th Edition: 2000 vs Orks and Goblins 
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Corsair

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:20 pm
Posts: 83
Hi all, my next game will be this coming Monday against Orks and Goblins. This player likes to use Fanatics, Squigs, Doomdivers, and tons of Night Goblins supplemented by Black Orks. I also expect him to deploy some Wolf Riders that he recently acquired. So far my list looks like this:
Lords
Supreme Sorceress Level 4, Cold One, Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Presrvation

Heroes
Death Hag, Cauldron of Blood
Master, BSB, War Banner, Cold One, Repeater Crossbow, 1+ Armor Save

Core
20 x Corsairs, AHW, FC, Gleaming Pennant
25 x Witch Elves, FC, Banner of Swiftness
5 x Dark Riders, Shields, XBows, Muso
5 x Dark Riders, Shields, XBows, Muso

Special
RBT
RBT
War Hydra, Fiery Breath

Rare
5 x Doomfire Warlocks, Master of Warlocks

Total=2003 (need to shave some points somewhere)

My plan is to run the Corsairs and the Witch Elves near eachother, likely in the center or slightly off to one side, to take advantage of the re-rollable wounds from the Cauldron, then use the RBTs to hold down lanes and Dark Riders to force combats that direction/harass his war machines.
Some questions and concerns I have:
Will I have enough shooting to deal with Fanatics/Squigs? Usually I take some Darkshards but am hoping 10 Dark Riders, the RBTs, and Master with Xbow and do the job.
Should I scrap the Master entirely, run the Death Hag as BSB, and take more Witch Elves? He will likely have a few very big blocks of Goblins.
Any advice or input on this list is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!


Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:17 pm
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Generalissimo
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 3678
Location: Baltimore
The list looks okay - I'm not convinced by the corsairs, but they will put out a decent number of attacks and night goblins are fairly soft to kill, so they may be okay. I would drop the War Banner - if you are needing to win your battles by Static Combat Res then you've already lost. I'm not sure about the RBTs either - what is their purpose? Orcs and goblins are cheap enough per model that they're not really going to care about a few missile deaths per turn, especially if he has big blocks of cheap as chips night goblins. Maybe replace them with Darkshards if your goal is to kill fanatics. Also, harpies are ideal for fanatic baiting, so take some if you have any. Also, where are you placing the two heroes and supreme sorceress on cold ones? I would drop the Master on the Cold One - he doesn't seem to add very much and the Cauldron Death Hag could be BSB easily enough.

My big concern with the list is that you are really going a bit "do or die" with the witch elves. They will chew through almost any of his combat troops, but if they are somehow destroyed or otherwise compromised then you don't really have very much else in your list. The corsairs may do okay, but they're not a game winner and Black Orcs will probably eat them (especially if he has a big lord of munchiness). Everything else in your list feels too light to get the job done as well. I'm not sure what the answer is exactly, but that's my two cents anyway.

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Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:28 am
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Corsair

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:20 pm
Posts: 83
Thanks for the advice! I am still working on collecting a nice block of high STR infantry, only have 10 executioners so far which I feel would be too easy to splat with one Doom Diver to be a good choice. I feel similarly about the 5-6 Cold One Knights I have. The RBTs were to be my answer to anything high T he may field--squigs, a giant, arachnarocs spider etc.
Corsairs are to host the Supreme Sorceress, the 4+ save makes them a decent bunker I feel. Cauldron of Blood + Death Hag goes with Witch Elves.
Everything being "too light" seems to be a common problem I run into with Dark Elves. What is the answer? Big blocks of executioners? More cold one knights? Aboher hydra?


Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:52 pm
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Generalissimo
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 3678
Location: Baltimore
IDK, I always liked to have two hammers - maybe a horde of witches and a group of 9-10 Cold One Knights led by a fighting character (I recognize you don't have the models, but it sounds like your army is pretty much comprised of everything you own already, so I'm not sure what you want us to suggest). Having just one punching force makes it too easy to divert and bog down while he deals with the rest of your army.

I think you'll do well with your list and will probably win it, but I do think the WE block being your only real game-winner is risky. Separately, I wouldn't rely on Reaper Bolt Throwers to kill monsters - yes, the no armour save is nice, but at typically 3s to hit (4s at long range) followed by 4s to wound against most big beasties (3s against T5, 4s against T6, 5s against T7), and then just D3 wounds, it takes a lot of luck and/or a long time to take anything meaningful down (and if he's running giants, he's probably going to lose anyway because they're not a good choice). I did once manage to one-shot an Orc Wyvern lord with a lucky bolt thrower shot, but it's a very rare thing indeed! Personally I'd spend the points elsewhere, but they could be useful for killing fanatics if all else fails.

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:16 am
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Corsair

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:20 pm
Posts: 83
I'm interested in knowing optimal set-ups regardless of models owned to continue expanding my collection! I'm still very new to Warhammer so that kind of input is very helpful to further my overall understanding of the game.

The game went great, a total massacre! I wiped the board on turn five while only losing half a unit of Warlocks, a Master, the Hydra, and half the Corsairs. We decided to play Dawn Assault and my opponent had unlucky rolls on deployment resulting in his hoped-for 10 leadership bubble not working out as anticipated. I decided to go with the Death Hag as BSB and just use the Master on foot as some added punch to the unit of corsairs. For the sorceress I took the lore of life and mostly used her to case Shield of Thorns a few times as there were no good opportunities for Dwellers Below and I didn't get the Regen spell.
My opponent ran no fanatics unexpectedly, instead opting for 3 units of 5 Boar Boys, 15 Wolf Riders (10 and 5), 4 Ballistas, 2 Doom Divers, 60 Night Goblin Spearmen with some heroes including an Ork Warboss, a unit of 20 Black Orks, and 40 Night Goblin Archers.

Turn one, I go first. The Warlocks move up the left flank and Doombolt a unit of Boar Boys, killing them! They miscast and lose 2. Dark Riders move up the right and middle and take some shots at Wolf Riders and set up a charge on on Doom Diver. RBTs (dead center) pick off a few Wolfriders. Corsairs and Witch Elves move up the middle, Hydra goes up the left flank to set up a counter-charge.
His turn, he fails a charge with Boar Boys, mostly whiffs with his artillery except for one Ballista shot that puts the Cauldron of Blood at 1 wound left! Repositions with Wolf Riders and Boar Boys to get at my RBTs. Moves up Orks on the right flank and Goblins down the middle.

Turn two, the Warlocks charge a doom diver on the left flank, killing it. Dark Riders charge a ballista on the right flank, it surprisingly sticks. Witch Elves charge some Wolf Riders hoping to overrun into the Night Goblin arhcers but fail their pursuit. Corsairs move up the middle to guard a flank charge from the Boar Boys/Night Goblin Spearmen. Hydra stays put. 5 other Dark Riders sneak between Wolf Riders and Archers to set up charges against the 3 ballista in the middle. RBTs rain hellfire down upon the approaching Wolf Riders, wiping them out.
On his turn, an untimely animosity roll forces the Nightgoblin Archers to charge the Witch Elves, who flee despite a flank charge and are later caught by Dark Riders after they take out the Ballista. The other doom diver misfires. The Hydra was charged by 60 Night Goblin Spearmen and wins combat thanks to Breath Weapon doing massive wounds but the Goblins stick.

Turn three, Dark Riders charge and kill a Ballista, overrun into the next one. Hydra dies, goblins reform to attack the Corsairs, who charge into and kill a unit of Boar Boys then reform to face the Goblins. Witch Elves get hung up on some Wolf Riders, kill them but fail to overrun into the Black Orcs. RBTs take out some approaching Boar Boys--they are on fire this game!
He charges into the Witch Elves, I win combat anyway but they stick. My Dark Riders are set up for a flank charge next turn. He makes a long charge onto the Corsairs with his big scary unit and nearly takes out the Sorceress, one wound remaining. I lose combat by 3 and need a 6 to win leadership. First roll, fail; no big deal, gave them the gleaming pennant. Second roll, fail... I think I'm screwed but then remember the BSB on the Cauldron of Blood gives an 18 inch re-roll! Third time's the charm and they stick.

Turn four, my Dark Riders in his back line take out another Ballista. Doomfire Warlocks get a Soulblight off on the big block of spear goblins and set up a flank charge for next turn. Other unit of Dark Riders flank charges the Black Orcs who are wiped out by the Witch Elves, who reform to face the spear gobbos. The Corsair combat goes better this time; I remember challenges and even though my Master dies, he only takes two wounds and otherwise my Corsairs slice him up. I win combat but he sticks.
Same story next turn--Corsairs and speargoblins are the only combat ongoing; I continue to deplete his numbers, win combat and he sticks.

Turn five, I come in for a flank charge with my Warlocks, kill the last ballista with the Dark Riders, and (maybe bottom of turn five) finally kill every last one of the goblins, heroes, and the Orc Warboss for a total massacre.

Twas a great day for worshippers of Khaine! Witch Elves are SO MUCH FUN when your opponent doesn't have a huge armor save and rerolling tons and tons of dice is very satisfying. The dice were in my favor and I feel I did a good job taking advantage of my opponent's poor positioning and remembering most of my army's cool rules.


Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:03 am
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