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Eighth Edition Army - All Comers 
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Slave on the Altar
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Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:08 am
Posts: 2
Hi All,

I may have found a group of folks near me who play 8th, and I'd like to give it a shot. Would you mind taking a look at my list? Also, IRL, do you find more active people playing 7th/8th/9th? Also, what is the most common point allowance for games you find? I haven't played since 4th edition, so just getting back in.

Thanks in advance!

2000 Point Army List

UNIT COUNT Points Extras
General Supreme Sorceress - Life 1 185
Level 4 upgrade 35
Cold One 25
Black Amulet 60
Dispel Scroll 25

Heroes Sorceress - Death 1 80
Level 2 Upgrade 35
Dark Steed 10
Power Stone (1 use add two dice to single cast) 20
Opal Amulet (1 time 4+ ward save) 15

Master 1 70
Cold One 12
Relic Sword 10
Battle Standard Bearer 25
Sea Dragon Cloak 6
Shield 2
Heavy Armor 4

Core Dark Shards - NO COMMAND 10 120
Shields 10

Dark Shards - NO COMMAND 10 120
Shields 10

Dark Riders 5 80
Shields 5
Repeater Crossbows 15
Musician 10

Dark Riders 5 80
Shields 5
Repeater Crossbows 15
Musician 10

Special Cold One Knights 5 150
Musician 10
Standard Bearer 10
Standard of Discipline 15
Dread Knight 10

Reaper Bolt Thrower 3 210

War Hydra 2 320
Fiery Breath 20
Spit Fire 20

Rare Doomfire Warlocks 5 125
Master of Warlocks 10

GRAND TOTAL 1999

STRATEGY:

Flank overload one side or the other, led by one group of Dark Riders to pepper, followed up by Doomfire warlock (with Lore of Death Sorc) flanking, and the hammer of 1/2 Hydras. Meanwhile, the other group of Dark Riders slips in the other flank to wipe up war machines/archers. Cold One Knights death star hold back as a sweeper/reserves (potentially with other Hydra) while the Dark Shards and Reapers chew through everything.

I may have a tough time with strong characters (Chaos) armies, but that's what I'm planning Spirit Leach (Lvl 2 Sorc), plus bolt throwers for! I should absolutely slaughter everyone in the magic phase. What do you think?


Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:18 am
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Generalissimo
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 3723
Location: Baltimore
8th edition had a lot more bulk and staying power built into the game. Gone were the days of expensive elites ruling the battlefield: new rules such as steadfast and stepping up put staid to that.

As a result, your army looks too fragile to me. You have no real bulk (blocks of infantry) and the cavalry looks pretty frail given the amount of points you are investing in it. An artillery hit or nasty round of magic or two and your army is toast.

It's impact also looks pretty unreliable. You have a lot of shooting, which may do very well against some elite T3 armies but the moment you run into an army with lots of T4 and/or heavy armour (e.g. dwarfs, orcs, chaos warriors, etc). In those cases, their shooting won't chew through everything but will be more like flinging toothpicks against a Stegosaurus. Even in less tough armies, many will run BIG hordes, as they came to be very popular in 8th edition, and they may not be desperately concerned by losing a few dozen meaningless back rank members of a block of goblins or undead from your shooting.

Your Cold One unit might pack some punch, but it is only 5 big (7 including the master and the... Supreme Sorceress? why is she there? You don't want her in a combat unit surely?...) and if it gets charged or doesn't win in the first round, it's going to get ground down pretty quick.

Even in the 8th edition book, two hydras is pretty cheesy. You're better than that. Just take one and reinvest those points elsewhere.

My suggestions:

Macro:
Cut back the amount of high-cost, super fast but brittle cavalry. Replace them with some solid anvil blocks of infantry that can hold the line while your remaining cavalry do their flanking high-jinks. At 2k, two sorceresses may be too much - just take the Supreme Sorceress (and put her out of harms way in one of those big infantry units) and your unit of warlocks can fill in as the other spellcasting entity. If you are going to take the Cold One Knights, take at least 8 so that they can actually do some damage in combat.

Consider adding something like an executioner horde, supported by a Cauldron of Blood. Our forces got ASF as standard in 8th, so the Execs will strike in initiative order, which means they get to strike first with a WS5, S6 attack against most foes. That really gives high armour foes like chaos warriors a headache (or, more accurately, a lack of head).

Micro:
Jettison the black amulet on the Supreme Sorceress while you are at - it's a very pricey piece of kit and there are cheaper ways to protect her nearly as effectively. Also, add musicians to the RxBs so that they can reform and shoot.

Just my two cents.

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Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:43 pm
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Slave on the Altar
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Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:08 am
Posts: 2
Red... wrote:
8th edition had a lot more bulk and staying power built into the game. Gone were the days of expensive elites ruling the battlefield: new rules such as steadfast and stepping up put staid to that.

As a result, your army looks too fragile to me. You have no real bulk (blocks of infantry) and the cavalry looks pretty frail given the amount of points you are investing in it. An artillery hit or nasty round of magic or two and your army is toast.

It's impact also looks pretty unreliable. You have a lot of shooting, which may do very well against some elite T3 armies but the moment you run into an army with lots of T4 and/or heavy armour (e.g. dwarfs, orcs, chaos warriors, etc). In those cases, their shooting won't chew through everything but will be more like flinging toothpicks against a Stegosaurus. Even in less tough armies, many will run BIG hordes, as they came to be very popular in 8th edition, and they may not be desperately concerned by losing a few dozen meaningless back rank members of a block of goblins or undead from your shooting.

Your Cold One unit might pack some punch, but it is only 5 big (7 including the master and the... Supreme Sorceress? why is she there? You don't want her in a combat unit surely?...) and if it gets charged or doesn't win in the first round, it's going to get ground down pretty quick.

Even in the 8th edition book, two hydras is pretty cheesy. You're better than that. Just take one and reinvest those points elsewhere.

My suggestions:

Macro:
Cut back the amount of high-cost, super fast but brittle cavalry. Replace them with some solid anvil blocks of infantry that can hold the line while your remaining cavalry do their flanking high-jinks. At 2k, two sorceresses may be too much - just take the Supreme Sorceress (and put her out of harms way in one of those big infantry units) and your unit of warlocks can fill in as the other spellcasting entity. If you are going to take the Cold One Knights, take at least 8 so that they can actually do some damage in combat.

Consider adding something like an executioner horde, supported by a Cauldron of Blood. Our forces got ASF as standard in 8th, so the Execs will strike in initiative order, which means they get to strike first with a WS5, S6 attack against most foes. That really gives high armour foes like chaos warriors a headache (or, more accurately, a lack of head).

Micro:
Jettison the black amulet on the Supreme Sorceress while you are at - it's a very pricey piece of kit and there are cheaper ways to protect her nearly as effectively. Also, add musicians to the RxBs so that they can reform and shoot.

Just my two cents.


Thank you very much for taking the time out of your day to write this thoughtful response. I mean that - how many people would actually take the time out of their day to help a total stranger? Thank you very much for your input.

As a background, I'm a total noob and just played my first game of WH since 1998. Your advise was almost spot on. I ran two builds similar to the above (one with no Hydras), and I got absolutely slammed by VC and a closer match v TK. I'm getting a better feel for DE. I really despise the fact that I have to play large blocks of troops - that combat was the most tedious of my day and honestly was not fun in the least bit.

Again, I will be incorporating your advice, so thanks again for your help!


Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:03 am
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Generalissimo
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 3723
Location: Baltimore
I'm happy to have been of help and am glad that the advice may be useful going forwards.

Welcome back to the game! I sadly don't get to play these days really - different phase of life and all - but I went through a similar transition back in 2009 when I picked up the game again after a 15 year or so hiatus. I spent the first 6 months or so getting my backside kicked regularly by pretty much everyone else. But after a while, I improved.

The best advice I can give is really just to give it some time - regardless of what type of army formation you use, you will get gradually more familiar with what tools in the army are best for doing what, as well as various strategic approaches and tactical sequences. The first few months may well be rough, but don't take them to heart - you will get to the point where you can regularly hold your own and eventually even trounce your opponents :)

Also, take a read through some of the old DRAICH tactical articles on here when you get some time. Some of them are dated, but there are quite a few with timeless relevance.

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Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:41 pm
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