Reality Check! 2000 pts of Dark Elves.

[Kennethloh]

Ah. The store I go to organized a 2000 pt WHFB tournament yesterday. Here are various observations:

There were 10+ players, of which (if I remember) -
4 were VC (3 'generic' armies, 1 guy with lots of fell bats, 2 units of black knights and lots of ghouls)
3 were Empire (2 'generic' armies, 1 Artillery Train)
2 were DOW (both each very Cav-heavy and had one large unit of Ogres)
1 Chaos (A Dragon, Furies, Warhounds, 3 units of 4 Knights)
1 HE (new guy trying one of every unit, did quite well though, cheers to him)
1 Dwarf (2 machines, 4 units of Warriors, 1 copter, 1 unit of Slayers)
1 Lizardmen

The players (obviously) frequent the store, so when I get my army I will most likely face up against the above armies.

Here comes a REALLY interesting trend. Everyone except the Dwarf had only 2 units of infantry and at least 2 units of heavy cav. Magic was pretty strong amongst the VC and HE (as expected) and lots of Dispel Scrolls were bought by everyone since they knew each others' style. Few/little non-magic shooting was used except by the Empire Artillery Train.

Now this gave me a slight problem since my army wasn't really prepared for heavy cav just charging and getting rid of all my slower (relatively) infantry. So I have revised my list (again) to take all this into account. Presenting the Nightblades... again.

191 1 Noble, lance, HA, SDC, shield, Deathmask, Dark Pegasus
// flies around on his own

137 1 Noble, lance, HA, SDC, shield, Seal of Ghrond, Cold One
// joins the Cold One Knights to provide Ld

225 20 Warriors, shields, full cmd
230 18 Corsairs, full cmd, War Banner
205 18 Corsairs, full cmd

// I have 3 units of infantry really because they look really good. And it would be fun for once to outnumber someone!

127 5 DR, rxbs, m
127 5 DR, rxbs, m
127 5 DR, rxbs, m
127 5 DR, rxbs, m

// 4 units of Dark Riders provide plenty of missile fire but their main job is to flee from charges by Heavy Cav, drawing them within closer of my infantry.

84 6 Shades, LA
// to stop marches from the start of the game.

97 1 COC, spears
// supports the infantry, esp against heavy cav.

235 5 COK, full cmd, Banner of Murder
// These guys will hang around the flank and use their longer charge range to counter-charge enemy heavy cav.

78 6 Harpies
// to kill off warmachines.
----
1999

The main idea is to suck up any magic the opponent may cast and let my numbers absorb it (very Skaven-ish, I know). Lone mages will be dealt with by my Harpies and Pegasus.

The Pegasus-rider is esp useful, since even Vampires will fear my Pegasus-rider (because he causes Terror), one lucky charge should be able to get him to flee and then be cut down. If the Vampire stays to fight, the Pegasus-rider just has to do the same number of wounds before winning (due to outnumber by Unit Str) before autobreaking the Vampire! In the worst case, my rider will keep the Vampire occupied for a turn :p.

Having no magic should really freak out most opponents who spent 100 points on their precious Dispels!

What do you think?

Thanks for your suggestions/opinions.

[Dungeon_god]

Vampires are all undead except for their ghouls and bat swarms. Even their characters. This means their characters follow all rules of undeath. NEVER, EVER let an opponent forget that. Yes, it means that their characters cannot flee from a charge. Very useful against opposing necromancers.

[Kennethloh]

Here is an alternative list...

381 1 Highborn, lance, HA, SDC, Enchanted Shield, Crown of Black Iron, Manticore
94 1 Noble, GW, rxb, HA, SDC
225 20 Warriors, shields, full cmd
230 18 Corsairs, full cmd, War Banner
205 18 Corsairs, full cmd
127 5 DR, rxbs, m
127 5 DR, rxbs, m
127 5 DR, rxbs, m
127 5 DR, rxbs, m
84 6 Shades
97 1 COC, spears
97 1 COC, spears
78 6 Harpies
----
1999

In this case, the Highborn/Manticore acts as a tarpit, using his 20" charge range to get into the heavy cav's flanks together with a DR unit (18" charge) hopefully pinning down the Knights. That same movement phase, I move my infantry with COC slightly behind (so that I can countercharge with the COC if the Knights beat my Highborn and DR and run into my infantry). I endure two rounds of puny S3 by the Heavy Cav and the following turn, if I still haven't won yet, the infantry and COC charge in and if it isn't game over, I can only blame my dice.

Both lists look like they'll work well, so it's more a matter of which list I'll buy the models for first. I'm leaning towards this second one since it req. less models and some models can be used interchangeably (e.g. I can claim the Manticore is a Pegasus).

[Ezeraal]

Both lists look kinda competitive, the lack of mages should not hurt seeing as you don't seem to be facing a magic AND shooting heavy army.

One thing to remember though, undead DO NOT get affected by terror, because they are in fact immune to psychology. The only exception is ghouls, and they cause fear, so terror becomes equivalent to fear on them, so no terror checks within 4" on them either.

Actually, looking at the opponents you face I'd go for the list with the manticore, because you are facing enough armies that cannot just cannon/bolt-thrower it out of the sky.

[Lord Thalack]

You could try to get a paor of reapers to shoot at heavy cavalry. ANother thing you could do is put the highborn in a chariot to help with stupidity and get a beastmaster on manticore


Bye
Lord Thalack

[Thanee]

1 Chaos (A Dragon, Furies, Warhounds, 3 units of 4 Knights)

LOL, did he play Tzeentch also, so his lord cost him about 800 points?

1 HE (new guy trying one of every unit, did quite well though, cheers to him)

Nice! Will probably a fun guy to play against! Maybe you should ask him to play a game or two sometimes!

The Pegasus-rider is esp useful, since even Vampires will fear my Pegasus-rider (because he causes Terror), one lucky charge should be able to get him to flee and then be cut down. If the Vampire stays to fight, the Pegasus-rider just has to do the same number of wounds before winning (due to outnumber by Unit Str) before autobreaking the Vampire! In the worst case, my rider will keep the Vampire occupied for a turn :p.

But someone did tell you, that all undead are unbreakable, no?

Bye
Thanee

[Kennethloh]

I realised a big mistake with the second list. Since the Highborn has Ld 10, I can't make the Noble the General! Which means only *one* COC gets Ld 9 since the Highborn would be flying around... the remedy? Look below...

159 1 Noble, lance, rxb, HA, SDC, Enchanted Shield, Dark Pegasus
84 1 Noble, GW, HA, SDC
230 1 Beastmaster, Manticore
225 20 Warriors, shields, full cmd
230 18 Corsairs, full cmd, War Banner
205 18 Corsairs, full cmd
127 5 DR, rxbs, m
127 5 DR, rxbs, m
127 5 DR, rxbs, m
127 5 DR, rxbs, m
84 6 Shades
97 1 COC, spears
97 1 COC, spears
78 6 Harpies
----
1997

Now I get a Manticore, a second flyer *and* I can make the Noble in COC the General to ensure both COC get Ld 9!

[Lord Thalack]

Looks good


Bye
Lord Thalack

[Thanee]

You could drop one Harpy and get another Shade. 5 Harpies will do the same as 6 Harpies, but 7 Shades are 2 shots more per turn.

Bye
Thanee

[Lord raven]

Why a lance on your noble? Wouddent a Great Weapon be better? Str 6 on the charg, not 5 like a lance. Then you can switch back to your hand weapon so wont strike last in 2 round of combat. And what is tht rib? think he has. I would dtop 1 shade and 1 harpie, and Bring a Seal of Grond. 1 extear dispell dice would help ofset your lack of a spell caster.

[Lord Thalack]

A lance will also give S6 on the charge. And once you started combat with a weapon you must use that weapon suring the whole combat, so you can't start with a great weapon and switch to a hand weapon in the 2nd turn


Bye
Lord Thalack

[|seraphon|]

vampires who fear a terror causing Unit??? VC are Immune to Psy, so they will never flee or fear.....

But is looks nice

[Silverscar]

Thalack is right. you cant change weapon in an engaged CC and a lance gives you +2 str on charge, and does not strike last after, so the lance is the best choice.

Silverscar

[Lord raven]

I haddent thought about the switching weapons in combat thing....humm.