Ras' 7th Ed list - starting fresh and undoubtedly better

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:27 pm

So, after last weeks attempt to make a half decent and competative Druchii list for 7th (which failed abismally) I decided to opt for something a bit more me, and to be honest I REALLY like it. Its more competative, but without being any where near the relm of cheesey and suits my play style a great deal better (yay Hydra!). It could probably do with a tweak or two, but meh, seems fairly good to me, a bit different as well, which is always nice, and certainly not nicked from any one (except from the title of course

)...

The Orange Legion V5.0

High Born (GOP, CoBI, HA, Sh, SDC, DRAGON)
Noble (Lance, HA, SDC, Enchanted Shield, Seal, Horse)
Sorceress (lvl 1, 2 scrolls)

16 Warriors (Spears and Shields), SM
10 Warriors (RXBs and Shields)
7 Riders, S

5 Harpies
Chariot (Spears)
Chariot (Spears)
5 Knights (Warbanner), S
5 Knights

War Hydra
Reaper
Reaper

2246pts in total
4 DD + 2 Scrolls
10 Deployment slots / 62 Models / 87 wounds

I don't think I need to write a long exploratory spiel at this point, its a fairly self-explanatory list, but one with a suitable degree of complexity and cunning involved. Probably better to do a Q and A session then a lecture

. One thing though, I am not sure on the HB's set up. I am tempted to loose the GOP for Blood Armour and the Crimson Death because I like the idea of fighting in INI order, but then there is the whole S8 thing to consider. Probably keep it as is for a few games and then re-evaluate. S8 certainly ehlps against Monsters and also Steam Tanks

....

Be interested to hear your thoughts.

Ras

Beastmaster kurlan · Post by **Beastmaster kurlan** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:48 pm

now ras this is a list i really like. great to see you have a hydra, and that unit of bannered riders is a good idea. cant think of much i would change, im not sure on the unit of knights naked. but the highborns setup i thikn is ok, but crimson death could well do better, s6 and taking advantage of elven initiative.

Frijoles negros · Post by **Frijoles negros** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:10 am

I quite like it. It's pretty similar to what I'm doing for 7th. I'd stick with the gauntlet for now, at least for a few games.

1) How do you feel about the 16 warriors? I assume they're going 5*3 + 1 guy all alone in a 4th rank.

2) Do you think the scroll caddy provides enough magic defense to cover you?

3) I assume there's a shield on the highborn. And if not, the 4 point's you have left will fix that.

Dancingpigeon · Post by **Dancingpigeon** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:26 am

Just curious what your intention with the noble is? What unit/role do you see him performing? Will he be joining the CoK's? or the DR's? Or does it depend what your facing/terrain, etc.

Also, I take it the naked CoK's are there just to act as a flanker somewhere?

Do you think 5 Harpies is enough? One Casualty and you've lost the ability to crossfire, get rear bonus, etc. I assume thats what you plan on using them for? A long with march blocking and the usual duties (War Machines)? I know you're tight for points...

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:57 am

@Frijoles Negros:
16 Warriors are indeed in 5x3+1. I would rather have 20, but that means finding the points and painting the models and if we are honest the need for the extra rank isn't very important. They are their for psychological and trixsie reasons. Provided the enemy sees a block and it has a bit of static CR then all is fine. The scroll caddy will be fine. I have been playing against big magic armies with a caddy and I haven't had a huge amount of problems given the exception amount of points it frees up. Also I am much more confident with it in 7th, and with so much either tough or high armour stuff in my army even the usual elf killing MMs aren't such a worry. There is a shields on the HB. Typo that.

@Kurlan:
I have used a Hydra consistantly for a year, its only they just got MUCH better...

@DancingPigeon:
The Noble performs the usual tasks, either hunting or force multiplying. He is certainly a relic from 6th but one I am keen to keep on for a bit, at least untill I feel he is no longer adding anything, but I am not convinced that will happen. He has always been a highly useful and succesful character, and I don't think the targetting rules make him much worse with a 0+ save against shooting. The naked knights are a great unit. Cheap, nasty and altogether very useful. Great bait, great hammer. Great. I have written quite alot about them in the past in some of the older OL threads. I'll see if I can dig some stuff out for ya. 9 Harpies certainly would be better, but points and models mean I have to take 5, and although they will die quite quickly I am not expecting to have a problem at this moment, but only time will tell.

Ras

Benji · Post by **Benji** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:06 am

i'd be tempted to make the noble a bsb and swap his enchanted shield for sword of might.

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:13 am

Benji: I was just thinking that. Makes him a wee bit squishy though...

Benji · Post by **Benji** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:39 am

when i used mine armed like that i found he's ok unles you are facinh heavvy life or heavans magic. now this needs line of sight it makes him a lot easier to keep safe. he could also go in the knights or the darkriders or even in the infantry now. i can't recall ever losing mine in combat. it will let you use the dragon as a bait unit, hold the combat then flank with the hydra/charios/knights

another think to consider, giving the 2nd knight unit a banner. if i was playing you all my shooting would go at the bannered unit

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:43 am

I like both those idea Benji, I really do. Means I need to find 49 points though. I'll have a ponder and see what happens.

Benji · Post by **Benji** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:02 am

drop 2 dark riders from the unit of 7

Dragonblade · Post by **Dragonblade** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:22 am

I actually have a very similar army. My noble is on pegasus though. He the the lifetaker and the ring of Hotek. Superb mage/warmachine haunter. You could get the points from the harpies, IMHO they are a waste of points.

Falahk · Post by **Falahk** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:16 pm

Ras wrote:So, after last weeks attempt to make a half decent and competative Druchii list for 7th (which failed abismally)

told you so

well, I think this list is mutch better then the last one and seams to fit better to your gaming style, as for the noble I would consider to take ring of hotek for him, since it just got way better with the new misscast table

Prince of arnheim · Post by **Prince of arnheim** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:29 pm

I don't think that list is the best it can be but it is still pretty good!

I think scroll caddies are a waste of potential. If you are gonna bother with a vulneralbe little scroll caddy you might as well make her have a little magic punch to protect yourself. Other wise the free 2 power dice you get are wasted. I would like to see her with a level 2 and a scroll and darkstar cloak or black staff so she can get a spell off sometimes.

I don't like that unit of 16 Warriors. Make them 20 and perhaps put your scorceress in there. 16 is now useless for any regiment.

I dont think you need two units of COK. I think you need more Core troops and you definetly need another units of harassers as the golden rule of Dakr Elves is to have atleast 3. You do have a Dragon though so you will be ok if you don't change this. I want to see 3 units of 5 Dark Riders as you have said before more units is better than bigger units for them.

Geoguswrek · Post by **Geoguswrek** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:00 pm

PoA: where is he meant to get the points to make all these changes?

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:38 pm

as the golden rule of Dakr Elves is to have atleast 3

Funny, I never heard of that rule before, wonder why that is...

I want to see 3 units of 5 Dark Riders as you have said before more units is better than bigger units for them.

No I haven't. Not for a long time. Did you even read my essay on Dark Riders?

As for the rest of your post if you don't bother to explain why I aint gonna bother giving it a reply. Same goes to Dragonblade. Don't just tell me things aren't good. I have played enought o have opinions on everything in druchii army and so if you wanna propose something sort fo change or propose that something is good/rubbish then you are gonna have to explain why you say what you say and what your reasons are, especially as I don't know you.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:05 pm

RasputinII wrote:
I want to see 3 units of 5 Dark Riders as you have said before more units is better than bigger units for them.

No I haven't. Not for a long time. Did you even read my essay on Dark Riders?

I'm the one who says more Dark Rider units is better . . .

Prince of arnheim · Post by **Prince of arnheim** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:50 pm

I thought I clearly said that you should drop a unit of COK to make room for the points.

Keledron · Post by **Keledron** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:08 am

Kel's thoughts

High Born (GOP, CoBI, HA, sh, SDC, DRAGON)
A good set up but I needed some points so the GOP went for the Crimson Death being on a dragon you won't be fighting that longer combats and 9 S6 attacks ought to win.(-30pts)

Noble (Lance, HA, SDC, Enchanted Shield, Seal, Horse)
so far so good

Sorceress (lvl 2, 2 scrolls)
Ras this needs to be a L2 why spend 90 ponits to then give 25 of them away 'cause you can't use all the dice you generate? WHY??????????? I'd probably use Death Magic and put her in the rxb unit (+40pts)

16 Warriors (Spears and Shields), SM
I get the idea but don't think you have enough models to make it work properly unless you use the noble in this unit - 2 models are too few to soak casualties up with. I'd actually to drop these for a 2nd rxb unit and boost the knight units With the combination of 4xS5 hitting units and the flanking dragon you don't need the static CR as much as you probably think.

10 Warriors (RXBs and Shields)

7 Riders, S
I've read the article still think its a waste of time unless you have enough magic to ensure you can make them cause fear, 5 will do and put the noble in if you want to use them offensively (-36pts).

7 Harpies
You need at least 7 any body with a brain will do thier best to reduce these to US4 as quick as possible which will limit your options to use the crossfire rule - you can do it with the dragon but why would you? With all the big hitting fear causer units below you will really want to be able to use the rule against most opponents (+26pts).

Chariot (Spears)
Chariot (Spears)
5 Knights (Warbanner), S
5 Knights
Nothing wrong with any of these though the hitting knight unit is a fairly obvious target unit and a musician and champion would be nice to have in the "bait" unit for reasons you can work out. Though can't see anywhere to find the points unless you drop the Warbanner which isn't the best idea ever.

War Hydra
Reaper
Reaper
Whats to say?

I like it overall very you, well balanced a bit light on the infantry but should work pretty well and not dissimlar to what I've been using myself of late.

Kel

Kristo · Post by **Kristo** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:53 am

Cheesy list, it will do great that's for sure. Had a simmilar in mind but with 2 rxb waarrior units.

Keledron wrote:Sorceress (lvl 2, 2 scrolls)
Ras this needs to be a L2 why spend 90 ponits to then give 25 of them away 'cause you can't use all the dice you generate? WHY??????????? I'd probably use Death Magic and put her in the rxb unit (+40pts)

She will be fine after all she can utilise the 2 pd the army provides hence she may cast 2/2 or 1/3 i.e: I usualy do chillwind with 1pd and soulstealer/dominion with 3pd, although the chanses of succeeding to cast even black horror with 3pd are quite significant. All in all I used a lvl2 caddy against the woodies and she didn't dissapoint me at all.

Joey_boy · Post by **Joey_boy** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:11 pm

Ras: I'm sorry to say this but I dont like it. Sure it has alot of potential to become a solid list. But I feel your missing out on some of the best stuff in 7th. First off I'd dropp both the chariots and add some more DR(2*5), 2 Harpies, 6 shades and the rest in basic warriors or just make them both rbx warriors to really help out with killing suport troops.

Kaladain · Post by **Kaladain** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:37 pm

Have you had a chance to play one or two out Ras?

Very curious, esp on that Noble setup. Those points are precious.

Eeeeron · Post by **Eeeeron** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:40 pm

Joey_Boy wrote:Ras: I'm sorry to say this but I dont like it. Sure it has alot of potential to become a solid list. But I feel your missing out on some of the best stuff in 7th. First off I'd dropp both the chariots and add some more DR(2*5), 2 Harpies, 6 shades and the rest in basic warriors or just make them both rbx warriors to really help out with killing suport troops.

The problem with doing this is in then leaves Ras without many hard-hitting units.

I don't quite get the point of the standard of the Dr unless it is to help break war machine crews, I feel a musician would be more helpful especially if they are being used as bait.

Joey_boy · Post by **Joey_boy** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:14 pm

Eeeeron: IMO he has more hitters then he needs in his army now. I'm just trying to remove the weakest link, the Ld8 stupid chariots with random impact hits. With the WH, duall knights, RBT's and Dragon he has all he needs. I use 3-4 combat hitters and 2 RBT all the time and do very well with them. Since IMO the key to getting the most out of your hitters are your suport units and your opponents suport units.

/Johan R

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:57 pm

Joey: Trash units are for Girls

. If it aint Big or Stupid I aint interested

. But seriously I play my elves in a different way to most, perhaps its a rubbish way, perhaps not, but its how I like to play, and I like to have combat units.

Kristo: It aint Cheesey. Its respectabley powerful, but it still has four stupid units and next to no harrassers (as Joey pointed out).

Kel: Ml lvl 1 may be inefficent, but 90 is better then 130, especially when that 40pts is needed.

Kaladin (heh, another K-name): Bar Storm in the East (which is 6th Ed) in a few weeks I doubt I will be playing much at all at the moment. I may get a few friendly games in, but College has hit my Warhammer hard, at least harder then I expected. I'll let you know when I can get a game in, might be able to get one in on the 6th.

Ras (and Yes I have been drinking).

Dosmil · Post by **Dosmil** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:44 pm

I see absolutely nothing cheesy about this list. Played in the wrong hands, this list could be a disaster. Yes there is a dragon/highborn in the list, but if you look around at the different threads concerning this combo, general consensus seems to indicate that the dragon/highborn combo is not worth its points and in some cases can actually be a drag on the rest of the army. I see this list as an expert or experienced players list. Of course, my opinion may be skewed by the fact that I use a very similiar list to this one.