Trial 2250 CoS list for European Championship

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Kida
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Trial 2250 CoS list for European Championship

Post by Kida »

Well, fat chances are that I'll be attending European Championship in Poland, either as a part of Team Croatia or part of a second team (some friction between the largest local club and several veteran members...) in August.

Anyway, no matter which team I'll be part of, I'll be using a Druchii army. While I'm also a Vamp and Asrai player, not only several more people are interested in playing the same army (and you get only one army/race per team), but I also enjoy playing more with 'underrated' lists. I like being an underdog (or, to be more precise, playing with underdogs - but in a competition like EC, I can consider myself to be a underdog player too. Not a top tier player by any means...).

So, I get to choose between a vanilla Druchii list and a CoS. I like both equally and my initial plan was to bring a Double Manti list with low magic. However, while this list is somewhat of an oddity in a tournament scene (heck, it even has a unit of Witch Elves), it is a tad too unstable (psychology-wise, being susceptible to Panic and Stupidity) for my liking and my mind is (currently) set on a Cult of Slaanesh army.

also, several notes on their comp, before you start criticizing the list:

-no triple Spec slots, no double Rare slots
-no quadriple missile Core slots
-max PD you can use in any magic phase is 9 (bounds counting as 1 PD each)

There are some other rules, but those I mentined are the ones that affect any Druchii army, most of the rest are race-specific...

List:
Druchii Anointed, lvl2, gw, chaos armour, Heart-Stone of Darkness, Quickening Blood, Soulstone

I realize that nowdays (7th ed) he can have a mundane shield and still cast spells. However, I'm 2 points shy and my model doesn't have a shield (and I'm fond of a model). Last game I came to regret this, as he was killed by a handful of Asur archers...I guess that's the hazard of engaging enemy warmachines on turn 1 via Shadow magic.

Soulstone is a late addition and if things should change, this would be the item I'd drop first. On the other hand, it is quite useful as I'm fed up with miscasting the very turn I enter important combats (might be a 6th ed hangover here...)

He usually starts inside Devoted, but he likes to join other units too, like RXBs or sometimes even warmachines...tries to stay within 12'' of BSB in case things go sour.

Lately I've been thinking of mounting him on a Boobworm, as he can get protection from several units and gain speed, but then a weapon becomes an issue - I'd probably have to lose gw and get either a Lance or a SoMight instead. In that case Quickening Blood can probably be dropped, too...


lvl2 General, MoS, Darkstar Cloak

A bit lite on equipment. However, I'm currently spending over 900 pts on characters. She usually starts a game inside Devoted, not far from head honcho himself...

lvl2 Sorceress, Dispel Scroll

Will usually go for a Shadow magic. Starts a game inside either RXBs or RBTs. Tries to stay within 12'' of Annointed.

Again, lite on equipment and only a single Scroll. This might not be the wisest of decisions in a highly competitive environment, but I'm counting on my units and tactics to kill at least one enemy mage by turn three. That's what Mounted Daemonettes and Fiends are for...


Noble, BSB, Chaos Armour, Cold One, Seal of Ghrond, Sword of Might

A recent addition and IMO a quite useful one. Stupidity is a pain, but that's Druchii for you. Regrettably, Dark Steed, while being an option, doesn't provide enough protection and Chaos Steed is available only to Anointeds.

His deployment greatly varies on terrain and opponent. He might start inside CoKs or Dark Riders to add punch, RXBs to make them more durable and immune to Fear or even RBTs to repel softer threats like Fell Bats...

Also, as you might have noticed, each character provides one DD, meaning I keep solid magical defense even with the demise of one character. PD are also IMO nicely spread...



12 Devoted, FC
5 Shades
5 Shades
10 RXBs, shields

Second Shade unit is also a recent addition. I quite like having more than minimum core units (makes me fell less of a dodgy git), but I'm not yet entirely sold on them. So far they haven't preformed great but weren't quite a disappointment, either...

5 CoKs, Warbanner
5 Dark Riders
6 Mounted Daemonettes
6 Furies

Dark Riders replaced a second MD unit and since then this list has gained much greater tactical flexibility. Being able to flee from a charge/divert for a reasonable price is awesome. In turn, the other MD unit has gained a 6th model to add more punch.

2 Fiends of Slaanesh
2 RBTs

Quite predictable choices but not less efficient for that...Fiends are probably the best unit in the entire list, winning games on their own on several occasions.

2249 pts total, with 9 PD (max any army can use on any turn) and 6 DD.

So, what say you? Room for improvement? Or should i perhaps stick with vanilla Druchii?
Last edited by Kida on Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Rugi »

I am probably going to EC with CoS myself also. I mean, I hope that I will be able to play with them because there is another player which plays DE.

Your list is very similar to mine but I use only 3 characters and no knights.
So I like this list a lot. The only thing that bothers me is why didn`t you take MoS on your RBTs?
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Post by Kida »

Rugi wrote:The only thing that bothers me is why didn`t you take MoS on your RBTs?

Hah, quite nice observation. Well, another habit from 6th ed, I presume.

You're correct - other than increased cost, there really aren't any drawbacks to having ItP crew but one - BSB wouldn't be able to join them.
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

Minor point . . . with that limit on magic, I think that the Wand would be a better choice than the Darkstar Cloak in this army.

I would dump the Soulstone on your Annointed. The chance of a bad miscast is pretty low for a character who can roll a max of 3 dice.

i also don't think your annointed needs the Heartstone. Even though his natural 5+ ward save is negated by magic, I still think it's good enough that you don't need to spend 45 points to upgrade it. A much better defensive choice in my book is Soporific Musk to make it harder to hit him. With halved weapon skill, enemies will need a 5+ when attacking in close combat.

If you have any extra points at all, put the Mark of Slannesh on your RBTs -- it can be well worth it to save them from panic or terror.
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Post by Rugi »

A much better defensive choice in my book is Soporific Musk to make it harder to hit him.

If he is going to be in a devoted unit, he already has soporifuc musk.
I tend to use Heart-stone also because he can than get into fight with realy strong enemies. What can a anointed do against chaos lord with Runesword and 4+ ward? Not much without ward save.
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Post by Rugi »

- other than increased cost, there really aren't any drawbacks to having ItP crew but one - BSB wouldn't be able to join them.

Why? They are not unbreakable.
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Post by Kida »

Dyvim Tvar wrote:with that limit on magic, I think that the Wand would be a better choice than the Darkstar Cloak in this army.

I don't quite agree, but that might have something to do with me being very unlucky when it comes to not rolling 1s for wearing the wand off. Also, there is a small matter of 20 points more...

Dyvim Tvar wrote:I would dump the Soulstone on your Annointed. The chance of a bad miscast is pretty low for a character who can roll a max of 3 dice.


This will be the first thing I'll change. However, I'm still looking for the worthy replacement (costing 30 or less points). Any ideas? Too bad Avatar is 35 pts...Musk sounds like a decent upgrade...

Dyvim Tvar wrote:i also don't think your annointed needs the Heartstone.


This I very much disagree with. This guy has a very mediocre AS and I can't count on that stopping any wounds coming his way. Also, he is often a target for missiles and magic (being thrown around via Steed of Slaanesh). Also, even if it were a true Ward, 5+ just isn't IMO enough to keep a 400+pts character alive. He likes to mess with the toughest of opponents and will need all the protection he can get. Besides, I really would like to have some protection once a Treeman hits him...

Rugi wrote:Why? They are not unbreakable.

They are, however, Slannesh-marked. The same reason he can't join Devoted...
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Post by Rugi »

They are, however, Slannesh-marked. The same reason he can't join Devoted...

I have never seen this rule before. Where can I find it?
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Post by Xerasi »

As far as I know, the rules are that marked chars cannot join units with a different mark. It is maybe not a common, but a sound idea of joining mounted chaos chars in warhound units (for ranks and outnumber), or chars to boost marauder regiments.

I'm very positive that it is allowed.

Why not take the wand, as already said. By droping the soul stone and the darkstar cloak you have the points you need. Even 5 extra. I'm not quite sure but isn't the mark a 5 point upgrade for boltthrowers? (it might be 10 and me mixing it up with shades though). You could also get your annointed a shield.

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Post by Benji »

i always liked my annointed with avatar of slanesh, darkstarcloak, quickening blood and blood armour. stops the need for a dark elf bsb and lets you get a fighty chaos hero.
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Post by Kida »

Rugi wrote:I have never seen this rule before. Where can I find it?

BoC and HoC armybooks, under rules for marks of chaos. If a unit has any mark of chaos, only character with the same mark are allowed to join them, while any character can join any unmarked unit (other than mortal/daemon/beast/elf limitations).
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Post by [llct]kain »

Your approach is a nice variant, i like the option of the annointed with GW on foot with SoS - the list makes me think to play my CoS again, perhaps with a annointed on foot :-)
Anyway I have some comments, no criticism just points I would think about to change...

- Annointed,
here I would advise a shield or even the enchanted shield, especially if you are going to steed him around - which means that he will sometimes just sit on his own in front of the enemy. Here the +2 on the AS comes quite handy.
Also I think the soulstone is not necessary on a lv2 caster.
I think the heartstone is a valid option. I teied sometime ago my annointed without, and it worked quite well - but he was nearly all the time in a unit.

- Noble
The question would be for which units do you nead the battlestandard ?
Because if you could get rid of it the noble would be a very nice add on to the DR as hunternoble to give you some room on one flank.

- Mtd. Daemonttes
This is the only unit which I would change, perhaps :-) They are tiny 180 pts which could die to one salvo and could not flee a charge ... if you have the time to playtest, try one or two games with a second unit of DR (made me regret to have spend 50 € on the mtd. D.)

- Merauder
are worth to include, just 10 for 40 bucks...it gives you one more unit which could soak up fire walk around etc. and could be purchased for one level of magic or one mtd. daemontte + some extra stuff
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Post by Kida »

[LLCT] wrote:here I would advise a shield or even the enchanted shield,


This I agree with. The more I think about it, the more I'm positive I'll do the swap...

[LLCT] wrote:- Noble
The question would be for which units do you nead the battlestandard ?
Because if you could get rid of it the noble would be a very nice add on to the DR as hunternoble to give you some room on one flank.


Well, it may be due to me not playing really good or my below average luck with dice, but I do lose combats by a small margin a lot (usually Devoted and CoKs...and Annoited on his own.). Also, having extra CR is very useful...


...and I'm planning a beautiful model, with Malekith's body, that spartan-looking chaos head and Malus' Cold One. Yeah, the models got the best of my reason...

[LLCT] wrote:- Mtd. Daemonttes
This is the only unit which I would change, perhaps :-) They are tiny 180 pts which could die to one salvo and could not flee a charge ... if you have the time to playtest, try one or two games with a second unit of DR (made me regret to have spend 50 € on the mtd. D.)


This I don't agree with. Last tournament I went with CoS, I were using 2 5-strong units and they've proven to be my MVPs of the entire tournament.

I might consider dropping perhaps one model, but I'm not particulaty fond of it either

[LLCT] wrote:- Merauder
are worth to include, just 10 for 40 bucks...it gives you one more unit which could soak up fire walk around etc. and could be purchased for one level of magic or one mtd. daemontte + some extra stuff


Well, this might be just my stubbornness, but I don't want any chaos mortals in a Druchii army. Daemons I can see as an integral part, but filthy and slow marauders - not quite.

Also, I hate models and don't own them, nor do I plan to obtain them in any nearer future...


Anyway, thanks for the input, guys! I appreciate it very much.
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Post by Rugi »

BoC and HoC armybooks, under rules for marks of chaos. If a unit has any mark of chaos, only character with the same mark are allowed to join them, while any character can join any unmarked unit (other than mortal/daemon/beast/elf limitations).

Thank you! I didn`t know that this rule exists for CoS. :?

Well, this might be just my stubbornness, but I don't want any chaos mortals in a Druchii army. Daemons I can see as an integral part, but filthy and slow marauders - not quite.

Also, I hate models and don't own them, nor do I plan to obtain them in any nearer future...


Anyway, thanks for the input, guys! I appreciate it very much.

This I don't agree with. Last tournament I went with CoS, I were using 2 5-strong units and they've proven to be my MVPs of the entire tournament.

I might consider dropping perhaps one model, but I'm not particulaty fond of it either


I couldn`t agree more in both cases!
I just love mounted daemonettes because of their speed, strenth and fear.
I also use 12 foot daemonettes and they prove to be as cost efective as the mounted ones.
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Post by Bloodfire »

you could always model some slaves and treat them as marauders. In mine, ive used the zombie (for the thin torsos and thin arms) and the peasant sprues. Modelling chain also works for these guys (they're slaves, why shouldn't they be chained up?). Plus chucking in a dark elf beastmaster model and there you go, instant marauders/slaves!!

I got this idea from the story were the dark elf commander releases a load of prisioners and then shoots them down, thats what slaves and maruaders are used for......CANNON FODDER!!

Also, giving the Anointed the Draich of dark power won't hurt either (+2 strength, killing blow), that usually works espeically combined with the quickening blood and the Pendant of Slaanesh. By the way, which magic is your Druchii Anointed using?
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Post by Xerasi »

Kida, funny thing, always thought that there wasn't a problem with the unmarked char in marked units, but very true there is... Never messed it up though, always used marked chars in unmarked units...

I'd consider dropping DRs for more MDs... they are just too good to give up imho... Personally I find they give more tactical flexibility by making huge controll zones, something that DR's don't really produce...

They are also pretty reliable at removing mages if there is such problems present (I know they might not survive, but having two units gives the flexibility, and removing a caddy/important mage can often make for a huge difference, especially with the lore of slannesh)...

Bloodfire, a GW is way more cost efficient than the draich... and I realy had some fun with my annointed in the old days. (2nd lvl, pendant, tome, gw, amour of ethernal)... Sad that regen no longer counts as loosing the wound... having 17 attacks and 6 wounds was always fun (when the gamble worked that is)

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Post by Kida »

Xerasi wrote:I'd consider dropping DRs for more MDs... they are just too good to give up imho... Personally I find they give more tactical flexibility by making huge controll zones, something that DR's don't really produce...


I used to play with 2 MD units and without any Dark Riders. However, that list, while actually preforming very well (even on tournament), was very vulnerable to me lacking decent fast units that can divert and/or flee.

I was very reluctant to drop one MD unit (took me ages to do so), but my game has actually improved since I've done so. And it gives me one more unit to place BSB if needed...

As far as magehunting goes - it is true, in theory. However, my experiences sofar has been that MDs, or any 'mundane' fast unit, very rarely actually kills any mages. Might be the fact that I usually play against vet opponents, but IMO magehunting is actually much easier said than done...

Thanks for the comments, guys!
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Post by Joey_boy »

Some minor notes on your hero selection. I'd recomed the Avatar build(or a varriant of it that Benji mentioned). Also I prefer to give one of my slaanesh mages the tome since the risk of rolling crapp spells are to great with slaanesh. Since there are 3 spells that can and will win you games and then there are 3 that will not do much at all.
Oh, and if I'm gooing with 3 mages I try to include a Slaanesh noblöe with bindings on a titty beast to take out a lvl2 mage on turn2 and make sure I dominate the magic phase.

The rest of your army is fine and will do well if played right. And I hope to see you at the ETC, I'll try to make it this year :)

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Post by Kida »

Joey_Boy wrote:Also I prefer to give one of my slaanesh mages the tome


Which will probably be what I'll buy for the remaining 15 pts (out of Soulstone's 25, 10 will probably go on Enchanted Shield...Annointed will probably also be to tome-carrier, as I don't want to give any 'important' items to non-Slaanesh mage and general already has an arcane item...)

Joey_Boy wrote:Oh, and if I'm gooing with 3 mages I try to include a Slaanesh noblöe with bindings on a titty beast to take out a lvl2 mage on turn2 and make sure I dominate the magic phase.


This is actually a mighty fine idea. How do you equip him? A lance, shield and bindings and that's it, I presume?

Also, this guy will most likely die, probably as a result of being pursued/charged next round, meaning he'll flee 6d6/out of the table. Isn't this a bit too pricey in a 7th ed, where most of the miscast results end your magic phase?
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Post by Joey_boy »

Yeah, Lance, Shield, Chaos Armour. I dont remember if you can buy him a peggy instead of the titty beast but if you can that would be a better choise due to the s5 attacks me thinks. I just ran him on titty beast becuse I had a cool mini ;)

Well, If I place the Noble on titty beast propperly I can in my turn1 or turn2 charge and kill a mage for about 150-180p. I'll then more then likely loose combat by 1-2 depending on how well my 3 s6 attacks and 2 s4 attacks do. Odds are the Noble will be sticking around. And if not he will break and run 3D6 and most likely get away, If my opponent then trys to charge him with the unit that was persuing him he will be open for counter charges from my other units that has moved up abit on the bord. Also he is great against necro-bunkers and damsels in lance units and IIRC killing the damsel will make the unit lose blessing.

Basicly he can do alot of stuff, and if you feel that you dont need to kill mages or you cant due to them hideing behind units or in terrain he can still be used to kill normal suport units. Basicly he is a suport Noble with a 50p item that can really boost your army when playing against some enamys.

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Post by Kida »

Joey_Boy wrote:for about 150-180p.

Just ran him through AB, and that guy costs 211 pts if on Peggie or 196 on Boobworm...and I kinda prefer him on a Peg since you lose only 2 magical attacks (and protection from units, though) but gain S5 attacks instead of S4 and unparalleled maneuverability...Noble is already ItP so mount makes no difference...

However, being able to hide in units is actually a big deal. I'll have to think some more and come up with a few more points (current BSB is 176 pts and is carrying Seal, which would have to go to some other character, meaning I'm 45-60 points short :( ).

Nice character for a nice surprise tactic though. Thanks for that!



EDIT, 10 minutes later...

The more I think about this character, the more I like him. I've never even heard of such a character/tactic and I reckon it would take many opponents by utter surprise...

And as fas as needed points go, I can always drop one shade unit, which is unpainted anyways (and I don't particularly fancy painting 5 more of these guys). It would mean LOTS of points in characters, but I guess that's Druchii for you...
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Post by Joey_boy »

I know, I normaly run this fellow with a lvl4(wand, seal, cloak) and lvl2(tome, scroll) in an infantry heavy CoS list that centers around 3*15maruders(flails, musi, champ), 13 devs(musi and champ), 2*6 knights(musi, champ), 2*5 DR(crossbows, musi), 2 spawns and 2 RBT.

Rock solid as far as CoS go. Lots of hitting power, solid magic and very good tactical options.

Good luck with him, I hope he will serv you as well as he has me :)

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Post by Hruggek »

I would exchange The Heart-Stone of Darkness with Enchanted Shield and Avatar of Slaanesh.
With 2+ As and his 5+ Ward, he is still one nasty customer that is more than capable of tearing Dryads and many other Deamons to pieces - on his own! (now more than ever since he has his own re-roll brake test).
Playing the game with 2 BSBs that their effect in 24" radius is hefty fine.
More or less, all units accept Deamons and Spawns will have a re-roll brake test.
And I would dump one Mounted Deamonette and buy 2 more Furies.

All other things are very nice and work fine altogether.
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Post by Kida »

Anyways, I guess it is time for an update :) ...

As far as my dilemma (boobnoble vs pegnoble) goes, I've opted to go with a Noble mounted on a Boobworm, for several reasons:

-15 pts cheaper, which actually makes quite a difference in this list
-while I do lose S5 attacks, I do gain WS4, which may or may not be a gain
-boobworm has a ward save, meaning it is less likely to be wounded in a challenge (especially when combined with higher WS)
-it can hide and/or support other units, most notably CoKs, Dark Riders or Devoted. Unlike Peg Rider, this guy can also join and protect warmachines if needed
-Fear, while not that much of a big deal, can potentially be a factor
-*most important reason* I have a beautiful model (albeit without lance, but that isn't too much of a hassle) and am lacking a peg model...

The only thing I actually lose is peg's speed and failed charge of 20''...


As far as Annointed's setup goes, I'll for now be sticking with my version, but will try the Avatar-equipped guy, too...

the list:
Annointed, GW, Chaos Armour, Heart-Stone, Quickening Blood, Enchanted Shield, Tome of Furion

lvl2 General, MoS, Darkstar Cloak, Seal of Ghrond

lvl2 Sorceress, Scroll

Noble, MoS, Boobworm, lance, Chaos Armour, shield, Bindings of Slaanesh


5 Shades
5 Shades
12 Devoted, FC
10 RXBs, shields

5 CoKs, Warbanner
5 Dark Riders
5 Mounted Daemonettes
5 Furies

2 RBTs
2 Fiends


again 2249 pts with 9 PD and 6 DD. However, this list has even more points tied in characters (over 960) :cry: and I'll have to see how that plays out...

Tome might be swapped for another Furie or could be dropped with Enchanted Shield in favor of Blood Armour.

What say you?
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Post by Haplo »

Have you considered making an infantry heavy list? Cheap DE warriors and marauders and some chaos warriors with GW. let the magic and spawns angle your opponents units for a nice flank charge. Chaos warriors with GW and frenzy is just plain rude!
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