Army WPS Club Challenge, 22fiddly(2,250) - New list at end
Moderator: The Dread Knights
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
Army WPS Club Challenge, 22fiddly(2,250) - New list at end
Highborn, Gauntlet of Power, CoBI, HA, SDC, Shield, Dark Steed
level 2
level 2, scroll
level 2, scroll, Tome of Furion
10 RXBmen
17 Spearmen
18 Spearmen, Std
5 Dark Riders
5 Dark Riders
CoC
CoC
CoC
5 Harpies
5 CoK's with std, Warbanner
Cauldron of Blood
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers
How does it look?? I want a counterattacking army that isn't OTT.
cheers rob
level 2
level 2, scroll
level 2, scroll, Tome of Furion
10 RXBmen
17 Spearmen
18 Spearmen, Std
5 Dark Riders
5 Dark Riders
CoC
CoC
CoC
5 Harpies
5 CoK's with std, Warbanner
Cauldron of Blood
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers
How does it look?? I want a counterattacking army that isn't OTT.
cheers rob
Last edited by Marauder mitch2 on Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Johan chill
- Executioner
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:23 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
need a bit more info...
whats with the spearelf numbers?
why no muso on the dark riders?
why no command on the spears?
why tome of furion?
why a dark steed for the noble with gauntlet?
i just dont wanna go and analyse your list when you may have made some tactical choices i dont know about...
for now it seems you've avoided upgrading to get alot of units you want in the army,
but you may find by trying to accomodate all the units none of them will have the punch to fulfill their roles.
but as i said, fill us in so we dont post about things you've already made decisions on... if that makes sense...
whats with the spearelf numbers?
why no muso on the dark riders?
why no command on the spears?
why tome of furion?
why a dark steed for the noble with gauntlet?
i just dont wanna go and analyse your list when you may have made some tactical choices i dont know about...
for now it seems you've avoided upgrading to get alot of units you want in the army,
but you may find by trying to accomodate all the units none of them will have the punch to fulfill their roles.
but as i said, fill us in so we dont post about things you've already made decisions on... if that makes sense...
- Rasputinii
- M-A-D
- Posts: 5178
- Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:52 am
- Location: Melbourne Oz
- Contact:
The info Johan asks for would be very interesting to hear. Also clarificatiosn on whether or not the three warrior units have shields would be most appreciated. I assume not, but that seems mad, so I just wanted to check if you just missed writing it down. Similarly I assume the chariots don't have spears.
Would you also be so kind as to explain how you plan to use it, just to give us an idea.
I do like the look of it though. Just need some clarifications before I can give further commentry.
Would you also be so kind as to explain how you plan to use it, just to give us an idea.
I do like the look of it though. Just need some clarifications before I can give further commentry.
Pleased to be back
- Shadow dark
- Noble
- Posts: 455
- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:08 pm
-
- Morathi's Favoured
- Posts: 9741
- Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
- Location: In the paintshop
Re: My Army for the WPS Club Challenge, 22fiddly(2,250)
Marauder Mitch2 wrote:Highborn, Gauntlet of Power, CoBI, HA, SDC, Shield, Dark Steed
I used this before Rob, it comes as a good surprise and there are many units he can take on his own in this way. Grail Knights are a perfect example. Just remember to challenge each round.
level 2
level 2, scroll
level 2, scroll, Tome of Furion
This is strong, Death wuld be my chosen lore in most instances with this army composition. The magic missiles making up for your weak mundane shooting phase. 3 casters also gives the option of maintaining this pressure yet still opting for a Dark wizard with chillwind if required. Maybe even 2 against woodies, empire and dwarves.
10 RXBmen
17 Spearmen
18 Spearmen, Std
5 Dark Riders
5 Dark Riders
Oddish combos here, I haven't pointed it up but specify their exact upgrades if any, before further comment.
CoC
CoC
CoC
5 Harpies
5 CoK's with std, Warbanner
All good stuff to benefit from the cauldron. 3 chariots is good and the overall list composition lends itself to a strong combat phase as long as your opponent doesn't fox clever with you. Tactical use of your movement and magic phases ought to ensure they have to engage you and you ought to be able to dictate to Bretts to a certain degree too.
Cauldron of Blood
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers
How does it look?? I want a counterattacking army that isn't OTT.
cheers rob
Hmm, perhaps I just don't think the Cauldron is worth it for for this army, but maybe I am just misunderstanding your tactics. Please help me see what your doing with a 205 point unit that cant move. It causes terror, and units with in 24" get to reroll failed wounds for the first round of combat. So the biggest benefit is the reroll as the terror can pretty much be avoided by the opponent as its a stationary unit, is that worth 205 points? Again, I am not being argumentative, I have just never used a CoB and probably would not use it with out some witch elves in my list so I am just curious if this is worth the points?
“You win battles by knowing the enemy's timing, and using a timing which the enemy does not expect.”
-Miyamoto Musashi
-Miyamoto Musashi
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
All the warriors have shields. I never use musicians on the dark riders. I saw a discussion about musicians by Rob Lane and they have never let me down. I am using the tome because it gives a better chance of Pit/Horror if i need it.
The 18 spearmen is where 2 level 2's go and the 17 is for 1 level 2, The 17 deploys 6*3 and 18 5*4.
I will post more but i am baout to go and see some family for easter.
See you after the holiday.
cheers rob
Dark Alliance - BTW i lost twice and won once with the empire at WHW. The list had a few weakness's.
The 18 spearmen is where 2 level 2's go and the 17 is for 1 level 2, The 17 deploys 6*3 and 18 5*4.
I will post more but i am baout to go and see some family for easter.
See you after the holiday.
cheers rob
Dark Alliance - BTW i lost twice and won once with the empire at WHW. The list had a few weakness's.
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
Low cash. the benefit of the Cauldron is a subtle one but it gives the list some different strengths. The re-roll to wounds is good with a counterattacking list because you whittle down the opponent with shooting and magic forcing them to move into the RFZ. Then by the time they commit you should have the advantage.
I am looking to use this list as i think it doesn't give away too many points and by commiting later in the game you lose the chance of losing big.
cheers rob
I am looking to use this list as i think it doesn't give away too many points and by commiting later in the game you lose the chance of losing big.
cheers rob
DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
- Rasputinii
- M-A-D
- Posts: 5178
- Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:52 am
- Location: Melbourne Oz
- Contact:
Okay, glad you got those shields on. I am assuming your HB goes with the Riders and floats abit, whereas before I thought he would go with the spears.
First things first I like the list. I actually like it quite alot. I like the 3 chariots and 5 knights + your Rare Choices alot. I also potentially really like the two Spear Units. However they also seem slightly wasted with so many casters in there. You could really do putting champions into those units, particularly the 18 strong unit, to prevent easy early game assassinations. Also, with no banners on the second spear unit I wonder what its role is. It seems more like a meat shield for the casters then it is a combat unit.
I know the pints don't quite add up, but I would seriously consider 15 or 18 strong bannered RXB unit in place of one or both spear units. That way they can have an impact on the game all along, and still be just as hard as your spear units in combat. If you drop all your warrior units you can afford two units of 15 RXBs with shields and a banner and a champ. Its up to you, but you may find you get more out of them. Or perhaps just go for the one spear unit and one RXB unit and then use the remaining points to bang in some more harpies or the DSC or summit like that.
Another thought for you is to loose the HB and two casters and buy yourself a lvl 4 and a BSB with the banner of Nags to join a big line of Crossbows. Its hard to use well and pull off, but potentially it might make for a powerful list. Up to you of course.
But like I say I do like the list, its quite a tough cooky. But I do think the area for improvement is in those infantry units.
Ras
First things first I like the list. I actually like it quite alot. I like the 3 chariots and 5 knights + your Rare Choices alot. I also potentially really like the two Spear Units. However they also seem slightly wasted with so many casters in there. You could really do putting champions into those units, particularly the 18 strong unit, to prevent easy early game assassinations. Also, with no banners on the second spear unit I wonder what its role is. It seems more like a meat shield for the casters then it is a combat unit.
I know the pints don't quite add up, but I would seriously consider 15 or 18 strong bannered RXB unit in place of one or both spear units. That way they can have an impact on the game all along, and still be just as hard as your spear units in combat. If you drop all your warrior units you can afford two units of 15 RXBs with shields and a banner and a champ. Its up to you, but you may find you get more out of them. Or perhaps just go for the one spear unit and one RXB unit and then use the remaining points to bang in some more harpies or the DSC or summit like that.
Another thought for you is to loose the HB and two casters and buy yourself a lvl 4 and a BSB with the banner of Nags to join a big line of Crossbows. Its hard to use well and pull off, but potentially it might make for a powerful list. Up to you of course.
But like I say I do like the list, its quite a tough cooky. But I do think the area for improvement is in those infantry units.
Ras
Pleased to be back
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
-
- Morathi's Favoured
- Posts: 9741
- Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
- Location: In the paintshop
Lowcash wrote:Hmm, perhaps I just don't think the Cauldron is worth it for for this army, but maybe I am just misunderstanding your tactics. Please help me see what your doing with a 205 point unit that cant move. It causes terror, and units with in 24" get to reroll failed wounds for the first round of combat. So the biggest benefit is the reroll as the terror can pretty much be avoided by the opponent as its a stationary unit, is that worth 205 points? Again, I am not being argumentative, I have just never used a CoB and probably would not use it with out some witch elves in my list so I am just curious if this is worth the points?
The cauldron is best used in a way the opponent won't expect and this list can pull that off. I used my own cauldron based list for 18 months and my primary tactic is to deploy out of the rfz and move the combat troops into range as the game progresses. Dark Elves are more than capable of dictating how the enemy moves remember...
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
After having 2 games against Lichars undead and after the discussion. The 2nd spear unit will be going. This will give me several options to make a change to the list which will upset Mr Legg slightly.
What option would you recommend before the next try out.
I lost both times to tthe undead. The 1st time i didn't realise how fragile the general is to fear (charge a bannered unit of Black Knights-forgot about the musician losing)and was an downward spiral the otther time a critical stupidity test put the army in a bad position.
I have 145pts to spend. I am tempted to drop a chariot, get another unit of riders and get 5 CoK's.
Any other ideas??
cheers rob
What option would you recommend before the next try out.
I lost both times to tthe undead. The 1st time i didn't realise how fragile the general is to fear (charge a bannered unit of Black Knights-forgot about the musician losing)and was an downward spiral the otther time a critical stupidity test put the army in a bad position.
I have 145pts to spend. I am tempted to drop a chariot, get another unit of riders and get 5 CoK's.
Any other ideas??
cheers rob
- Rasputinii
- M-A-D
- Posts: 5178
- Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:52 am
- Location: Melbourne Oz
- Contact:
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
Yes, take rxb's, if you are facing the undead again, rxb's can also chew through undead infantry. While Getting a unit of CoK is tempting, so you could counter those Black knights, without being immune to fear..
Saldrimek Xenan - WS6 / S4 / T3 / D5 / I3
Equipment: Executioners Axe (Rune of Beastslaying - Heroic Killing Blow), 2 Scimitars (Rune of Speed - Always Strike First), Dagger, Rune Branded Leather Armour, Executioner Helm, Fine Set of Throwing Knives (x4)
Inventory: Amulet of Darkness, Poison Vials x7, Deadly Poison Vials x8
Mount: Dark Steed
Gold: 163
Skills: Ambidexterity, Frenzy, Two Weapon Fighting, Ride
Class: Khainite
Equipment: Executioners Axe (Rune of Beastslaying - Heroic Killing Blow), 2 Scimitars (Rune of Speed - Always Strike First), Dagger, Rune Branded Leather Armour, Executioner Helm, Fine Set of Throwing Knives (x4)
Inventory: Amulet of Darkness, Poison Vials x7, Deadly Poison Vials x8
Mount: Dark Steed
Gold: 163
Skills: Ambidexterity, Frenzy, Two Weapon Fighting, Ride
Class: Khainite
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
Highborn, riding Dark Steed, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Gauntlet of Power, =227pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Darkstar Cloak, Lifetaker =180pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Dispel Scroll =155pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Dispel Scroll, Tome of Furion=170pts
14 Repeater Crossbowmen, shields, Full Command=193pts
13 Repeater Crossbowmen, shields, Full Command=181pts
5 Dark Riders =90pts
5 Dark Riders =90pts
5 Cold One Knights, Standard, Champion,Warbanner=206pts
Cold One Chariot =95pts
Cold One Chariot =95pts
Cold One Chariot =95pts
5 Harpies =65pts
Repeater Bolt Thrower =100pts
Repeater Bolt Thrower =100pts
Cauldron of Blood =205pts
Ammended list.
Level 2 Sorceress, Darkstar Cloak, Lifetaker =180pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Dispel Scroll =155pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Dispel Scroll, Tome of Furion=170pts
14 Repeater Crossbowmen, shields, Full Command=193pts
13 Repeater Crossbowmen, shields, Full Command=181pts
5 Dark Riders =90pts
5 Dark Riders =90pts
5 Cold One Knights, Standard, Champion,Warbanner=206pts
Cold One Chariot =95pts
Cold One Chariot =95pts
Cold One Chariot =95pts
5 Harpies =65pts
Repeater Bolt Thrower =100pts
Repeater Bolt Thrower =100pts
Cauldron of Blood =205pts
Ammended list.
DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
-
- Morathi's Favoured
- Posts: 9741
- Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
- Location: In the paintshop
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
- Prince of arnheim
- Renegade Reaver
- Posts: 1612
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:21 pm
- Location: Regina,Saskatchewan,Canada
I lik ethat list alot. I think you are relying a little too much on Magic thouhg, and your points are not spent very effeciently.
I like the units of 13 xbows with full upgrades. I like this configurations for all elite Dark Elf units so stick with that.
Do drop one Chariot as you are wasting a special slot.
Bump those harpies up to 7 so the yare more survivavble against panic. You will want them for crossfiring right.
I feel like you are missing a good solid elite infantry unit. Do consider dropping 1 or 2 scorceress(if you want heavy magic take a level 4 perhaps) and get some Witch Elves or Executioners.
So all I can say for now is definetly drop a scorceress and a chariot.
I like the units of 13 xbows with full upgrades. I like this configurations for all elite Dark Elf units so stick with that.
Do drop one Chariot as you are wasting a special slot.
Bump those harpies up to 7 so the yare more survivavble against panic. You will want them for crossfiring right.
I feel like you are missing a good solid elite infantry unit. Do consider dropping 1 or 2 scorceress(if you want heavy magic take a level 4 perhaps) and get some Witch Elves or Executioners.
So all I can say for now is definetly drop a scorceress and a chariot.
I would agree with Prince of Arnheim about the witch elves as they tear through undead with ease. 5 wide with a hag they get 16 poison attacks and reroll failed wounds with the CoB.
“You win battles by knowing the enemy's timing, and using a timing which the enemy does not expect.”
-Miyamoto Musashi
-Miyamoto Musashi
- Lord adrianus
- Noble
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:16 pm
- Location: Maastricht, The Netherlands
- Marauder mitch2
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am
- Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths
The problem with Witch Elves is they can be flee baited - and i know i am not good enough to get away with it. The army is also not an overly aggressive army and works on the counter, just like the Gunners.
I am still not sure on the 2 RXB unit though. The magic is there because of the amount of Woodies i expect to face. They hate lots of death magic.
The harpies aren't used for crossfiring. I use them to help negate support units especially with 2 attacks a re-roll to wound they hurt lots of support units. Although i have only played 1 game against Undead i do not expect them to be my major opponent.
I think i will drop a chariot and add a unit of 6 Cold One Knights, Standard.
The list will get a try out against a Khorne Archaons Horde.
Highborn, riding Dark Steed, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Gauntlet of Power, =227pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Darkstar Cloak =150pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Dispel Scroll =155pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Dispel Scroll, Tome of Furion=170pts
14 Repeater Crossbowmen, shields, Stnadard/Musician=193pts
13 Repeater Crossbowmen, shields, Standard/Musician=181pts
5 Dark Riders =90pts
5 Dark Riders =90pts
5 Cold One Knights, Standard,Warbanner=188pts
5 Cold One Knights, Standard = 163pts
Cold One Chariot =95pts
Cold One Chariot =95pts
5 Harpies =65pts
Repeater Bolt Thrower =100pts
Repeater Bolt Thrower =100pts
Cauldron of Blood =205pts
Better??
cheers rob
I am still not sure on the 2 RXB unit though. The magic is there because of the amount of Woodies i expect to face. They hate lots of death magic.
The harpies aren't used for crossfiring. I use them to help negate support units especially with 2 attacks a re-roll to wound they hurt lots of support units. Although i have only played 1 game against Undead i do not expect them to be my major opponent.
I think i will drop a chariot and add a unit of 6 Cold One Knights, Standard.
The list will get a try out against a Khorne Archaons Horde.
Highborn, riding Dark Steed, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Gauntlet of Power, =227pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Darkstar Cloak =150pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Dispel Scroll =155pts
Level 2 Sorceress, Dispel Scroll, Tome of Furion=170pts
14 Repeater Crossbowmen, shields, Stnadard/Musician=193pts
13 Repeater Crossbowmen, shields, Standard/Musician=181pts
5 Dark Riders =90pts
5 Dark Riders =90pts
5 Cold One Knights, Standard,Warbanner=188pts
5 Cold One Knights, Standard = 163pts
Cold One Chariot =95pts
Cold One Chariot =95pts
5 Harpies =65pts
Repeater Bolt Thrower =100pts
Repeater Bolt Thrower =100pts
Cauldron of Blood =205pts
Better??
cheers rob