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Exploring Different Army Builds 
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Master of the Red Legion
Master of the Red Legion
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I played in a tournament today and got the comment from my third round opponent that the army I was playing (first tournament with the new rules) was pretty much the same as what I had used in many previous tournaments. At first I thought it a ridiculous statement to make as its a new army book and all, but then I got to thinking and realized he was exactly right. This is the list I used (which won me the tournament):

Master with SoM and pendant and lots of mundane armour on dark steed.
L2 Sorc on steed with cloak
L2 Sorc with scroll

5 DR with musician
5 DR with musician
10 RXBmen with standard
10 RXBmen
6 harpies

Chariot
Chariot
5 Shades

2 RBTs

1500 pts, 7 PD, 4 DD

The idea is effectively a mobile missile army and its generally my preferred type of army and generally, I do quite well with it (I was in a serious winless drought in any system I was playing before the tournament when I was using other builds and other armies). So, back to the comment by my opponent. I realised later that this army, even with the new book, was only slightly different that one I had used at a tournament a year and a half ago (at the same location) which I had also won. In fact, the only difference was some equipment for the heroes (magic item changes) and there was a third chariot instead of the shades. Like I said though, its the style I most enjoy playing and I seem to do it well - hence even more enjoyment. ;)

The thing that irks me though is that I've barely played in the last year, making me rather rusty in many ways. I was making a good deal of silly mistakes throughout the tournament. So, obviously, my comfort level with this army is so great that there is little point in continuing with it any further. So, I'd like to explore new army builds that hopefully keep to the same sort of balance in all phases that I seem to need.

So, is there really any way that people have found to build a similar style of list without going really over the top on certain aspects? I'm having a real hard time thinking up something that is distinctly different yet embodying the same general principles. Things I keep thinking of are horde style armies, monster themed armies and other stuff that's simply too different for me to have much fun with, honestly.

So, any thoughts on how I can modify the list above (for 1500 pts as well as for 2000 pts) to keep with a similar theme of balance while also making it look different?

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Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:36 pm
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I really list your list and could see how to expand it into higher point level games (2K/2250) without losing the overall feel it has. I use a similar theme. Not only are you relying on shooting, but on maneuverability. That said, as you expand, think about crossbows on the Dark Riders. Maybe even add and additional unit. Add a Hydra. Those things are insanely maneuverable and once they are close in add greatly to your shooting phase with their strong breath weapon. Finally, I would think about changing one level 2 to a level 4 and giving your master a flying mount, either a dark pegasus or a manticore.

I really think that Dark Elves can be very competitive when they use those things they are inherently good at to an elevated level. I guess what I am getting at is that you could really benefit by sticking to the shooting phase, but make maneuverability the main goal of the army. That always serves us well.

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Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:27 am
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Corsair
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You may just switch 10 RXBmen for 10 RhB Corsairs.
Same cost, that is a tiny difference only to your previous army.

The corsairs are bound to intrigue and this unit alone may suffice to change the overall aspect.

They are much more resistant to shooting. A good place to put your sorc.

A nice way of using them I would like to explore is to put them 5x2. If someone approaches and threatens your side, you turn 90°, wheel 1"1/4, augment your line to 10x1 and shoot with no penalty.

If there is a building you can get them inside, they are extremely hard to kill, either by missile or by HtH (if charged they shoot an stand, repulse the opponent to 1" and next turn shoot again).

In open fields, it is a good bait.

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Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:48 am
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Master of the Red Legion
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I've been thinking about this quite a bit, to be honest. I'm actually looking to change the list up significantly, but at the same time, keep the feel the same overall - the feel being the very balanced nature of the whole thing - and by balanced I mean it has the ability to negate the more obvious weaknesses of the army.

As always, DE armies are vulnerable to shooting and magic. With the army above, I've rarely been outshot in a tournament setting and its quick enough to get rid of the enemy magic. The weakness is that it can be pushed around a fair bit and cornered and squished.

But I keep thinking of ways to accomplish the same goals and all I come up with is cruelty of this nature:

Dreadlord on dragon
Master on manticore
3 units of 5 DR
2 units 10 RXBmen
6 harpies
5 shades
2 hydras

1985 pts (I figure with something this bad, I can forgo the last 15 pts)

Its a beast themed army and damn but there won't be much of a shot off or magic cast past turn 2. ;) So many targets and not nearly enough time. :twisted:

I suppose what I'm really after is something rather sublime, in a way. I'm going to keep thinking about this and see what I can come up with.

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Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:36 pm
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Brolock
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I was thinking of a similar army, though in my mind, I was thinking of squeezing in at least a unit of CoK for an extra hitter. Should something bad happen with the flyers or a beast spell hits hard, I wanted a backup. With 6 harpies, I'm not so sure that you need 3 units of DR. Either one or 2 would suffice for anything you really need them for. On the other hand, the RXBmen seem a bit static for as quickly as the rest of the army will be moving.

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Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:51 pm
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Master of the Red Legion
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Static with 2 units isn't always a bad thing as they will claim/deny those two quarters in the end. It also causes an opponent to possibly split his force as well - if he doesn't, then your units are quite safe, all game long, doing what they are intended to do - shoot. ;)

Still, I think I have found my sublime list. ;)

Master on cold one
pendant, SoM, HA, sh, SDC

Master on Chariot
HA, sh, SDC, lance

L2 Sorc on steed
cloak

L2 sorc with scroll

5 DR, RXB, mus
5 DR, RXB, mus
10 RXBmen, mus
5 harpies
12 corsairs, FC, serpent banner

5 shades, extra weapons
5 COK, FC, null talisman
Chariot

Hydra
2 RBTs

2000 pts

The Master on cold one goes with the knights so they can take on full ranked units of pretty much anything. The other Master can operate as independently as he wants and is for frontal assault on many other units. Sorcs provide magic and there is enough shooting there in general to keep me happy. :twisted:

I figured the corsairs in that setup are the same cost as 12 witches with FC and manbane, so I figured I'd trade the poison, I bonus, and manbane for some armour instead. All in all, most units are quite resilient to missiles so they should make contact at near enough to their full strength. The magic phase should be deep enough and I think there are enough different threats (knights with hero, chariot + DR, DR + corsairs, hydra, master and chariot) to keep people busy and going in a few different ways at least. And its all pretty fast. There's a pretty good chance that all 5 threats can make contact against different units all at once in turn 3 (which would be largely devastating if done properly).

Thoughts and comments?

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Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:10 am
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I really like this recently posted list. It has quite an array of units, but keeps a good overall focus. I really like the master on chariot. He can break ranks and is really good at killing things. If you could find points, I think making him a BSB would really help out as well.

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Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:08 am
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Master of the Red Legion
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BSB isn't a bad idea, though I think I have to give up the harpies to do it.

BSB bonus with the standard of slaughter is pretty much an even trade and means that under almost any circumstance, the character on chariot has a really good chance of winning the combat and also of staying in future rounds if the enemy unit doesn't break.

New list would then look like this:

Master on cold one
pendant, SoM, HA, sh, SDC

Master on Chariot
BSB with Standard of Slaughter
HA, sh, SDC, lance

L2 Sorc on steed
cloak

L2 sorc with scroll

5 DR, RXB, mus
5 DR, RXB, mus
10 RXBmen
12 corsairs, FC, serpent banner

5 shades, extra weapons
5 COK, FC, null talisman
Chariot

Hydra
2 RBTs

2000 pts

Also, I've been wondering if the SoM on the Master is a good idea. I kind of like having S6 on the charge from everybody. After all, with everyone at S4 in subsequent rounds of combat, that still isn't half bad... The trade would get me my musician back on the RXBmen.

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Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:31 pm
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