2500 All comers with Kouran - Naggarond theme

[Victor simic]

This list initially had no particular theme, but after adding Kouran, it loosely became a expeditionary force from Naggarond. It has been put together with little idea what my opposition will be. I`ve been invited to a local gamers group game day where upto nine players will battle over three tables. Probably get about three games. I know there will be an Undead player and possibly another Druchii player, but that`s about it.

The list has potential for sure, but I can see a few weaknesses like limited Flyers (one small unit of Harpies), hence the Assassin with the Cloak of Twilight. It`s also a bit light on as far as Magic goes. The other thing that bugs me, is the Witch Elves. I reckon they go with a CoB for maximum benefit, but I also like their potential as a CC monster with the Banner of Murder and a Hag with Manbane. That`s pretty good even without the Cauldron. Trouble is, with this Naggarond theme creeping in, Cold one Chariots seem more `in theme` than Witches. I dunno.

Also, with Characters taking up around 800 points, I want to get them right.

Anyway, comments and critcism welcome. Anything with compulsory at the end of the comments is not negotiable in the list, and must stay. Anything without is still under consideration.

2500 Dark Elf Army (unless my maths has failed).

Dreadlord - Armour of Darkness, Pendant of Khaleth, Death Piercer, Null Talisman, Dark Steed : I know many wont like the Dark Steed as a choice of Mount for my Army General, but I like the mobility, lack of Stupidity, quickly join any unit and lend his Null Talisman to their Magic defense.

Master BSB - Hydra Banner, Cold One, HA, Sh, SDC : Pretty standard option for a BSB. Goes in the COK unit. This guys been in and out of the list fighting with a Dark Peggie mounted Master for a spot. I`ve stuck with the BSB with Hydra Banner simply for his ability to turn my COK unit into a massive hammer unit. A Hydra Banner enhanced COK unit rarely fails to annihilate any enemy it charges, and I need the hitting power in this list.

Sorceress - Level 2, Dispel Scrollx2, Dark Steed : Again, pretty standard. She should be useful enough, getting the odd spell off and hopefully giving some kind of magical defense with her few dispel dice and her Scrolls. Very much a defensive choice. Compulsory.

Assassin - Cloak of Twilight, Touch of Death, Manbane, Additional Hand Weapon : Still not completely decided on this guys kit, or even whether to take him. 171 points could get me a Peggie Noble, a bigger unit, or even another unit. But part of me really likes the idea of this fella flitting around with his CoT taking out War Machine crews, lone Mages, Skirmishers, and maybe the odd Character (if they`re not too heavy). I would have liked the RoK for the extra attacks, but decided on extra wounding ability with MB and the chance of an auto kill with the ToD. A bit of a wild card, but certainly an annoyance to my opponent at the very least.

RxB Warriors x 10 - Sh : I normally take two of these units, but settled for one to be able to fit other things into the list. Awesomely versatile and a unit with obvious potential. Compulsory.

Dark Riders x 5 - Rxb, Muso : Self explanatory inclusion. I don`t leave Hag Graef without a couple of these units. Compulsory.

Dark Riders x 5 - Rxb, Muso : As above. Compulsory.

Warriors x 20 - Sh : Static CR unit. For some reason I always take these guys, and they usually perform well. They`ve become a bit of a talisman for me I reckon. Generally give or recieve a frontal charge with equal competancy. Nice to combine with other faster and/or more elite units in the army in a combo charge. Work well with the Hydra or Dark Riders who both pursue faster than Warriors. Compulsory.

Harpies x 5 - Great value Flying unit. Help in march blocking, straggler harassing, and crossfiring. Would actually like another unit or two OR a slightly bigger unit. Compulsory.

Cold One Knights x 5 - Full Command, War Banner : BSB goes here. With the War Banner AND the BS, this unit makes for a hefty VP prize. That`s actually a worry, but its devastating potential is not to be sniffed at. Everyone should know the amount of attacks a unit of COK`s with a Hydra Banner can put out. Awesome. Can also team the DL up with them on the charge for extra goodness. Pretty much compulsory.

Black Guard x 15 - Kouran, Banner of Hag Graef, Full Command : Nasty unit indeed. The nearly no brainer ASF BG unit strikes again ! I thought I`d try Kouran in it this time, as the Unbreakable status he bestows is too good to pass up. This unit will be the rock that the enemy breaks upon. I`ll have to be on guard for strong missile attacks though. Compulsory.

Witch Elves x 12 - Full Command, Banner of Murder, Manbane : I did have fifteen models in this unit initially, until I remembered that I forgot to add the 25 points on for the Master being a BSB. So, the ladies lost three models to accommodate. It doesn`t really matter, as ranks aren`t really the point with WE`s. Hopefully with the Hag`s Manbane, Armour Piercing from the BoM, and the Assassin joining in the party when he chooses, this unit should kick arse on the charge. I know its rare to see Witches without the CoB in lists from the new AB, but I`d like to give it a try. Much as I think they`ll be great with the BoM, I`m still not decided on this unit. I`m thinking of a couple of Cold One Chariots instead of the girls. Might be more in theme with the Army, as it`s really not a Khainite style force (apart from the Assassin).

War Hydra - Too awesome to pass up. Compulsory.

Reaper Bolt Throwers x 2 - Much needed hard hitters. Along with the Hydra and the COK`s, these are the damage dealers. Compusory.


So there you have it. Most things are definately staying apart from the Characters (Sorceress stays) and the Witch Elves. Whadda folks reckon ? Should the Witches stay even without the CoB ? Should I go with two COC`s instead (as I usually do) ? What about Characters ? I`m just not convinced about the Dreadlord in his current set up. Maybe he`s fine, I dunno. I`m really close to making the BSB compulsory. I know I`m gonna need a serious hammer unit against some of the armies I`m facing (or at least the ones I THINK I`m facing), and a Hydra Bannered COK unit is one of the best hammers around. What about the Kouran led Black Guard ? I reckon they`re the business !

Look forward to comments good and bad.

[Aspiring executioner]

You could always mount your Dreadlord in a chariot for US 5 and added hitting power but if your used to him being on a steed then fine. I'd give your assassin RoK, Black Lotus and Touch of Death, I once got 4 KB's in one combat with it. I'd get rid of the Witches and put in the Chariots for the amount of ASF units is staggering nowadays. I'd also give your BSB a Lance for 4 S6 attacks on the charge unless you just forgotten to put in the Lance in your list. Good luck with your games and if your ever in Newcastle drop me a line.

[Burizan]

Assassin: rune of khaine is compulsory if you want combat. This means you get EITHER manbane OR touch of death, otherwise you simply wont do nearly reliable enough damage.

I think the witch elves are fine, and most of it is really.

I recommend ditching Kouran unless you just want im for fluffy purposes, and fielding black guard 6x3, lets be honest most of the time the black guard will win combat, and even when they do lose ITP/stubborn on ld9 is usually enough to hold, especially with a BSB in the army and all kinds of other support.

Dreadlord's gear seems a little off, for 15 points you can buy nonmagical 2+/1+ armour save, which subsequently can't be destroyed by vauls unmaking etc. If anything was going to reduce your armour from 1+ it would be high enough strength to ping off the pendant, so I strongly recommend you change this.

I think a ring of hotek on coks or on regular black guard champion is virtually compulsory for a strong magic defense

The sorceress also only needs to be lv1. You already get to use 3 dice at a spell, and for a scroll caddy you wont be casting much anyway so the 35 pts is wasted.

[Victor simic]

Dreadlord's gear seems a little off, for 15 points you can buy nonmagical 2+/1+ armour save, which subsequently can't be destroyed by vauls unmaking etc.

Your right. Non-magical combo is cheaper and can`t be destroyed by magic sapping items/spells. Good one. I`ll stick with the Pendant though. Ring of Hotek is an interesting suggestion for the COK`s. I`ve got 5 pts spare plus the ten I`ll save from ditching the AoD, so that`s 15. I`ll have to try and find a few more.

Lvl 1 Sorceress is definately a strong possibility. I just like the extra Spell. But that IS 35 extra points to play with.

I recommend ditching Kouran unless you just want im for fluffy purposes

He`s kinda in there for fluffy purposes. Also, it`s a way of getting a Champion with the Crimson Death who bestows Unbreakable for 75 points. Your right though. Black Guard with a BSB wont need Unbreakable that much at all. It IS 75 pts though, so he`s looking a bit shaky.

Assassin: rune of khaine is compulsory if you want combat. This means you get EITHER manbane OR touch of death, otherwise you simply wont do nearly reliable enough damage.

So, Assassin with AHW gets 4 Attacks, and Assassin with RoK gets 5-7 Attacks. Hmmm, this was my dilemma. I kinda thought of risking going with the four Attacks with Re-rolls for Hatred as enough to get a few wounds with Manbane. There`s also the chance of KB with ToD. It`s a hard one. But I see your point. Increasing the average amount of Attacks certainly increases the chance of Wounding. The dilemma is, whether to opt for increased Strength with Manbane, OR the chance of KB with ToD. I`ll think on it.

I'd also give your BSB a Lance for 4 S6 attacks on the charge

Good idea. After I rejig the list I hope to have the points for a Lance.

Thanks for the insight folks. Plenty to ponder. I`m still not sure about the Witches. I`ve noticed that one of you said ditch them, and the other reckons they`re fine. That`s the problem. I`m also undecided. I`d really like COC`s AND Witches. I `spose I COULD put the Dreadlord in a Chariot, and keep the Witches.

I`ll post a revised list soon. Cheers. More comments welcome.