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2500 Dark Elves - Twin Terrors 
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Warrior
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Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:59 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Australia
Hi guys,

Looking to start up WHFB again (last played back in 5/6th edition). Here's my current thoughts on a list.
Any feedback would be most appreciated!


2500 Dark Elves

LORDS

Supreme Sorceress (in Warlocks)
level 4, Dark Steed
Cloak of Twilight, Dispel Scroll


HEROES

Death Hag (in executioners)
BSB
Witchbrew

Master
Manticore, Iron Hard Skin
Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Halberd, Repeater Handbow
Talisman of Preservation


CORE

Witch Elves x 20
musician, standard bearer
Gleaming Pennant

Darkshards x 10
shields
standard bearer, musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame

Dark Riders x 5
repeater crossbows
musician

Dark Riders x 5
repeater crossbows
musician


SPECIAL

Executioners x 29
full command
Standard of Discipline

Reaper Bolt Thrower

Reaper Bolt Thrower

War Hydra
Fiery Breath

War Hydra
Fiery Breath


RARE

Warlocks x 9

Sorc+locks on one flank, manticore on the other; both screened by dark riders. I'm not sure what lore to use, looking at dark/death/fire/ (more along the nuking line). the master can take out exposed units and generally cause chaos in the back ranks.

deployed in the middle are the exes with death hag BSB frenzy; standard of disc should keep them happy til they reach combat. the witches are a nice little support unit, reform to horde before combat if required. Hydras lend support in slaughtering rank and file; bsb reroll to help with leadership if sorc out of range.

backfield I have the crossbowmen with flaming banner on bolt thrower guard duty. They are abke to take out any flanking chaff, that manages to escape my own flanking sweeps.

How does this new list look?


Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:49 pm
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Corsair
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Posts: 8644
Location: Hag Graef
Looks deadly.
Have fun and report!

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Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:05 pm
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Noble

Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:28 am
Posts: 460
I'd make a few changes.

1) Cloak of Twilight does almost nothing for you on your sorceress. Pretty much only death snipes. Instead, give her the Talisman of Preservation, which gives her almost as good protection against snipes but also gives her protection if she ends up in close combat.

2) This means changing Talisman of Preservation to Armor of Destiny on your Manti Hero.

3) I think the unit of Witch Elves is too small to try to be a main combat block. I'd probably drop the command and split them into two groups of 10. These serve as great chaff clearers, combat multipliers, or speed bumps.

But overall looks pretty solid.

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Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:54 pm
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Highborn
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Death hags make bad BSB in my opinion. Direct 2 attacks at her. Poof, gone.

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Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:12 am
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Corsair
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Mod's note:
Off topic discussion has been moved to Witchbrew, DH and superfrenzy
If you want to discuss about superfrenzy, please use the new thread.
Thanks.
Calisson

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Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}


Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:44 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Seems like the last part of my post about the list was kicked over to that other thread too!

I think that the list looks quite good. The DH can die a bit too quickly, so I agree that it can be a bit of a big weakness against some lists (which can deal with her quickly). As you can put her on the edge of the unit, 10 wide, you might survive for more than just one round.

I think the death lore is one of the best choices for such a mobile sorceress, so try that a couple of times and see how it works for you.

The manticore is what I am most sceptical about. A pegasus master with the twillight cloak can survive a lot more and still deal a decent amount of damage. If you go for a manticore, I'd consider a different build... maybe a charmed shield for 2+ ward against the first hit (hopefully cannon shot), so you can get into close combat the next round (if the manticore survives), dawnstone for reroll to those 1+ armor saves (when you have a shield), and maybe potion of strength. I haven't thought that much about manticore builds as they still can die rather quickly compared to pegasus characters.

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Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:33 am
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Warrior

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:37 am
Posts: 59
I'd drop the CoT from the sorceress as suggested, and give it to the manti master, who should also have a lance. It is then a cavalry hunter. His and the manti's I is high enough that they'll go first against most cav, it all has killing blow and multi wounds in case there are any characters. If it survives it will prbably do pretty well in the flank of something engaged by hydra / execs etc.

Also could consider the beastmaster for the extra d3 attacks on the manti or one of your hydras.


Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:15 pm
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Warrior
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Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:59 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Australia
Datalink7 wrote:
I'd make a few changes.

1) Cloak of Twilight does almost nothing for you on your sorceress. Pretty much only death snipes. Instead, give her the Talisman of Preservation, which gives her almost as good protection against snipes but also gives her protection if she ends up in close combat.

2) This means changing Talisman of Preservation to Armor of Destiny on your Manti Hero.

3) I think the unit of Witch Elves is too small to try to be a main combat block. I'd probably drop the command and split them into two groups of 10. These serve as great chaff clearers, combat multipliers, or speed bumps.

But overall looks pretty solid.


Hi Datalink7,

Taken your feedback into consideration. I will swap around the ward saves. I am unsure on how to run core, either witch elves or crossbows.

Jvh792 wrote:
Death hags make bad BSB in my opinion. Direct 2 attacks at her. Poof, gone.


Hi Jvh792,

Agreed on brewhag. Replaced with Master.

Omnichron wrote:
Seems like the last part of my post about the list was kicked over to that other thread too!

I think that the list looks quite good. The DH can die a bit too quickly, so I agree that it can be a bit of a big weakness against some lists (which can deal with her quickly). As you can put her on the edge of the unit, 10 wide, you might survive for more than just one round.

I think the death lore is one of the best choices for such a mobile sorceress, so try that a couple of times and see how it works for you.

The manticore is what I am most sceptical about. A pegasus master with the twillight cloak can survive a lot more and still deal a decent amount of damage. If you go for a manticore, I'd consider a different build... maybe a charmed shield for 2+ ward against the first hit (hopefully cannon shot), so you can get into close combat the next round (if the manticore survives), dawnstone for reroll to those 1+ armor saves (when you have a shield), and maybe potion of strength. I haven't thought that much about manticore builds as they still can die rather quickly compared to pegasus characters.


Hi Omnichron,

Thanks for the tips with which lore to use. I will try death/dark for awhile to see how it pans out.

nevaenuffbass wrote:
I'd drop the CoT from the sorceress as suggested, and give it to the manti master, who should also have a lance. It is then a cavalry hunter. His and the manti's I is high enough that they'll go first against most cav, it all has killing blow and multi wounds in case there are any characters. If it survives it will prbably do pretty well in the flank of something engaged by hydra / execs etc.

Also could consider the beastmaster for the extra d3 attacks on the manti or one of your hydras.
Calisson wrote:

I know the pegasus is safer, but I like the look of the manticore so I want to try making one work.
Seems like I can run him either with the armour of destiny or the cloak of twilight. I'm not sure which of these two is better...seems like the cloak lends itself better to strong, powerful charges rather than longer melee battles.

Mod's note:
Off topic discussion has been moved to Witchbrew, DH and superfrenzy
If you want to discuss about superfrenzy, please use the new thread.
Thanks.
Calisson


Wow, didn't think my little post would trigger off a massive discussion...thanks! :)


Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:54 am
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Warrior
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Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:59 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Australia
2500 Dark Elves

LORDS

Supreme Sorceress (in Warlocks)
level 4, Dark Steed
Talisman of Preservation, Dispel Scroll

HEROES

Master (in executioners)
BSB
Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak
Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone

A:Master
Manticore, Iron Hard Skin
Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield
Cloak of Twilight
OR
B:Master
Manticore, Iron Hard Skin
Great Weapon, Sea Dragon Cloak
Armour of Destiny

CORE

Darkshards x 20
musician, standard bearer

Darkshards x 20
musician, standard bearer

Dark Riders x 5
shields, repeater crossbows
musician

SPECIAL

Executioners x 29
standard bearer, musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame

Reaper Bolt Thrower

Reaper Bolt Thrower

War Hydra
Fiery Breath

War Hydra
Fiery Breath

RARE

Warlocks x 9

How is this list?

1. Does the sorceress+9 warlocks count as 2 ranks for the casting bonus for the warlocks?

2. Loadout for Manticore Master...Cloak of Twlight (A) or Armour of Destiny (B)?


Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:23 am
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Trainee Warrior
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I would recommend replacing at least one of the Hydras and the second Manticore lord. Hydras are relatively fragile compared to those in the previous army book. You don't have anything that has a lot of attacks in close combat. A Death Hag on Cauldron with witchbrew in a Witch Elf unit can deliver a lot of attacks. Impact hits from the Cauldron on the charge, the Cauldron can march, any unit within 6 inches gets to reroll all failed to wound rolls instead of just 1s, the Cauldron gives the Witch Elves a 5++ save and the witchbrew gives them an extra attack so that your basic Witch Elf has 4 attacks. The Cauldron itself also has a decent ward save. It's expensive but is relatively tough and can put out a lot of attacks.

One of the problems with the Manticores and Hydras is that as large targets they are hard to hide from the warmachines. A Peg Master or Lord on the other hand can hide much more easily.


Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:01 pm
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Warrior
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Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:59 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Australia
phlewis wrote:
I would recommend replacing at least one of the Hydras and the second Manticore lord. Hydras are relatively fragile compared to those in the previous army book. You don't have anything that has a lot of attacks in close combat. A Death Hag on Cauldron with witchbrew in a Witch Elf unit can deliver a lot of attacks. Impact hits from the Cauldron on the charge, the Cauldron can march, any unit within 6 inches gets to reroll all failed to wound rolls instead of just 1s, the Cauldron gives the Witch Elves a 5++ save and the witchbrew gives them an extra attack so that your basic Witch Elf has 4 attacks. The Cauldron itself also has a decent ward save. It's expensive but is relatively tough and can put out a lot of attacks.

One of the problems with the Manticores and Hydras is that as large targets they are hard to hide from the warmachines. A Peg Master or Lord on the other hand can hide much more easily.


Hi phlewis,

Thanks for your feedback. I've come to the conclusion that the manticore just is too much difficulty to run. I'm unsure about the witch elves, i know they are powerful but still quite vulnerable (and fast becoming standard...I want a slightly different army).

2500 Dark Elves

LORDS

Supreme Sorceress (in Warlocks)
level 4, Dark Steed
Talisman of Preservation, Dispel Scroll


HEROES

Master (in executioners)
BSB
Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak
Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone

Master
Dark Pegasus
lance, sea dragon cloak, shield
Armour of Destiny


CORE

Darkshards x 15
musician
shields

Darkshards x 15
musician
shields

Dark Riders x 5
shields, repeater crossbows
musician

Dark Riders x 5
shields, repeater crossbows
musician

SPECIAL

Executioners x 29
standard bearer, musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame

Reaper Bolt Thrower

Reaper Bolt Thrower

War Hydra
Fiery Breath

War Hydra
Fiery Breath

Shades x 6
musician
great weapons


RARE

Warlocks x 9


So centre of the army is the executioners, flanked by crossbowmen. They can swift reform into combat blocks, and I would position hydras behind for combo charging. I favour the hydra over kharibdyss for wiping out rank & file; the bolt throwers can take out the monsters.


Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:21 am
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