2000-2500 point army - help

[Provo2100]

Hello guys.

Ive been on several of forums, Reading different army lists etc...
Just to get an slight idea of where to start making an army.
I was being recommended to visit this site, to get some great tips, from the best of dark elves players.

Im new to all of this warhammer gaming, it all started, just because I like painting the miniature models, but Ive decided to give the gaming part a go.

Okay so Id like to ask you guys for help, picking out some decent models to play with.
So far, ive got:

1x Box of Cauldron of blood (seemed to be on all lists and love the model) still in a box.
2x Box of War Hydras / Kharibdyss (everyone recommended to run atleast 2, if you Are to run Them, i love the model, so i Got 2.) still in a box
1x Box of Darkshards / Dreadspears (Core) still in a Box
10x Dreadswords, sampled before even knowing anything about the game. Im willing to Cut off their swords and give Them Spears
5x Cold one riders with Spears, sampled and also willing to change weapons.

Okay so id like my army to include:

1x Cauldron of blood
2x War Hydras / Kharibdyss
Xx Witch elves (love the model)

The rest, i dont Really Care, it's your choices. I have no clue whatsoever to what Can be a good addition.

Also what would you recommend me, when putting together my Hydra models? Should they be War Hydras or Kharibdyss or one of each?

Id like an explanation to your choices. If it's possible. It'll help me understand their roles

Thanks a lot guys. Hope it's not too much to ask

[DA SAVAGE]

WELCOME! Im not the best i would ask other people but Doomfire Warloks are a must in all of my lists. Other than that do what you want, or what these guys say they all no what they are doing. This probably wasnt much help but they are a fun army. O almost forgot my explanation they are a good boost to the magic phase and are a great bunker unless you are fighting an Slannesh army . Have fun and Good luck!

[CitizenKhaine]

I would add 2-4 Reaper bolt throwers. It is our only war machine and we need it to target some units. Always fire 6 Str 4 shots unless it is a really nasty monster. Aim all 4 at that large unit of ogres and enjoy the carnage Pop dwarf dirigibles out of the sky for the warm glow of satisifaction of seeing them burn.
Not only that, I really like the model.

[Provo2100]

Thanks a lot for the warm welcome and for the fast replies.

Warlocks sounds pretty nasty (in a good Way) hehe, it's also fast mobning right? I mean it's on a horse could fulfil an important role(s).

Oi! Bolt Throwers! Actually they Are debated a lot Arent they? some say they dont earn their points others say they Are a must ive seen Many lists has them. I Can defintely see your point about them.

Keep it coming guys

[Provo2100]

I've been trying to work out a list (with no experience), just trying to see what other people tend to prefer and add some of my own models to it.

I'd like a 2000 or 2500 pts list, dosn't really matter to me, but I need some help picking the right items, banners and other stuff.

Also please correct me if i'm wrong about points or other any other stuff, for that matter


Lord:

Supreme Sorceress
- lvl 4
= 220 pts.

Hero:

Death Hag
- Cauldron of blood
- Cry of War
- Witchbrew
- Rune of Khaine
- Magic items (not sure, what to pick? but i'm guessing it'll be close to 50 pts?)
= 410 pts.

Core:

30x Witch Elves
- Hag
- Musician
- Standard Bearer
- Magic standard (50 pts?)
= 410 pts.

10x Darkshards
- Guardmaster
- Musician
- Standard bearer
= 150 pts.

10x Darkshards
- Guardmaster
- Musician
- Standard Bearer
= 150 pts.

20x Dreadspears
- Lordling
- Musician
- Standard Bearer
- Magic Standard (25 pts?)
= 235 pts.

Total. 945 pts.

Special:

War Hydra
- Fiery Breath
- Spit Fire
= 200 pts.

Repeater Bolt Thrower
= 70 pts.

Repeater Bolt Thrower
= 70 pts.

Total. 340 pts.

Rare:

Kharibdyss
= 160 pts

5x Doomfire Warlocks
- Master
= 135 pts.

Total. 295

That should be 2210 points army.

What should I lose/add to this list?


Any help and ideas, would be much appreciated

Thanks a lot guys!

[Calisson]

Welcome Provo2100 to D.net!

SS needs to pick up a Lore, as soon as you draw a list. Study, for instance, Dark Lore or Shadows and see which fits you best.
Don't let her go to battle naked!
The most important choice to make is to get her on a mount (DS, DP) or on foot. With spearmen & darkshards, you can babysit her footed.
Then, she can get up to 100 pts of objects. See inspiration here: Character Build Compendium - 8th Edition Army Book As you have spearmen, I would suggest the dagger.

The DH could well be a BSB, you'd apreciate to get one.
Tool her with gifts of Khaine which would help her to survive longer.

20 spears are not enough. I suggest increasing to 30, to the expense of darkshards. That would provide you with a nice anvil.

In addition, you need more agility and more muscle.
More agility = pegasus master, or DR, or shades, or harpies, or warlocks. I suggest at least 5 DR, muso, shield.
More muscle = 5 COK that you have already, with musician and possibly full command. A COC could be handy too.

[Akholrak]

I would recommend tooling up your level 4. A 4+ ward wouldn't go amiss and either a Dispel Scroll, or even the Sacrificial Dagger could be useful. Your Death Hag can only take one of the Gifts of Khaine. The choice will revolve around her equipment. For example, Rune of Khaine would complement well with the Obsidian Blade/Ogre Blade. Witchbrew would give her and your Witch Elves more attacks. Cry of War increases the likelihood of failing a Fear check, improving your survivability in close combat. I would strongly recommend taking Dark Riders as they are so useful in many ways (unfortunately cannot provide any links). In Special, I would recommend taking either CoK, Black Guard or Executioners. This would provide much needed muscle to deal with high armour/high toughness foes. The Hydra can only take one of the upgrades. Take the breath weapon. You will get much more mileage out of it. Hope this helps. Welcome to the forum.

[Provo2100]

Welcome Provo2100 to D.net!

SS needs to pick up a Lore, as soon as you draw a list. Study, for instance, Dark Lore or Shadows and see which fits you best.
Don't let her go to battle naked!
The most important choice to make is to get her on a mount (DS, DP) or on foot. With spearmen & darkshards, you can babysit her footed.
Then, she can get up to 100 pts of objects. See inspiration here: Character Build Compendium - 8th Edition Army Book As you have spearmen, I would suggest the dagger.

The DH could well be a BSB, you'd apreciate to get one.
Tool her with gifts of Khaine which would help her to survive longer.

20 spears are not enough. I suggest increasing to 30, to the expense of darkshards. That would provide you with a nice anvil.

In addition, you need more agility and more muscle.
More agility = pegasus master, or DR, or shades, or harpies, or warlocks. I suggest at least 5 DR, muso, shield.
More muscle = 5 COK that you have already, with musician and possibly full command. A COC could be handy too.

I would recommend tooling up your level 4. A 4+ ward wouldn't go amiss and either a Dispel Scroll, or even the Sacrificial Dagger could be useful. Your Death Hag can only take one of the Gifts of Khaine. The choice will revolve around her equipment. For example, Rune of Khaine would complement well with the Obsidian Blade/Ogre Blade. Witchbrew would give her and your Witch Elves more attacks. Cry of War increases the likelihood of failing a Fear check, improving your survivability in close combat. I would strongly recommend taking Dark Riders as they are so useful in many ways (unfortunately cannot provide any links). In Special, I would recommend taking either CoK, Black Guard or Executioners. This would provide much needed muscle to deal with high armour/high toughness foes. The Hydra can only take one of the upgrades. Take the breath weapon. You will get much more mileage out of it. Hope this helps. Welcome to the forum.

First of all, thanks for welcoming me and for the great advices so far!

Okay, so i've been looking through my list and book. I'm in a bit of a problem now (as if I weren't before)

I'd like my list to be 2400-2500 (I can always cut it down, for 2000 games) I think that will be the best.

So, right now i'm considering the dreadspears and supreme sorceress. I mean, my Witch elves already costs me like 400 points and my 2 units of Darkshards are like 150 each, which is around 700 in total and if I were to include some Dark Riders and 30x Dreadspears, I will spend a lot of points on my core, is that a problem or better spend elsewhere? Example: Executioners, Black Guards, Cold One Knights or something else let me know what you guys think.

I was considering this build for:

- Death Hag: Cauldron of blood, Rune of Khaine, Obsidian Blade, Battle Standard Bearer - 390 points.

- Surpreme Sorceress: Dark Lore, Lvl 4, Tome of Furion, Cloak of Twillight, Dispel Scroll - 320 points. (this was before considering the dreadspears) if i'm to mount her instead, would that give her some more survivability? So she dosn't need to the babysitters?

Also, would you suggest 2x War Hydras or 2x Kharibdyss over 1 of each?

My renewed list, need some serious feedback, hope you guys can help with that

Lord:

Supreme Sorceress: Dark Lore, Lvl 4, Tome of Furion, Cloak of Twillight, Dispel Scroll.
= 320 points

Hero:

Death Hag: Cauldron of Blood, Obsidian Blade, Rune of Khaine, Battle Standard Bearer.
= 390 points

Core:

30x Witch Elves: Hag, Musician, Standard Bearer, Magic Standard(have no clue, what to give them)
= 410 points (with a 50 points magic standard)

10x Darkshards: Guardmaster, Musician, Standard Bearer
= 150 points

10x Darkshards: Guardmaster, Musician, Standard Bearer
= 150 points

30x Dreadspears: Lordling, Musician, Standard Bearer, Magic Standard(No clue what would fit)
= 325 points (with 25 points magic standard)

5x Dark Riders: Herald, Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields.
= 115 points

Special:

1x War Hydra: Fiery Breath
= 180 points

1x Repeater Bolt Thrower
= 70 points

1x Repeater Bolt Thrower
= 70 points

Rare:

5x Doomfire Warlock: Master.
= 135 points

1x Kharibdyss
= 160 points

Total. 2475 points

I couldn't make room for the Cold One Knights or anything else hard hitting, that you guys put as an example.

What would you suggest doing with this list, to improve it? Should I cut something down, to make room some hard hitting guys? If so, what should I cut

Thanks a lot guys!

[Akholrak]

Is your SS in the Dreadspears? If so, the Cloak of Twilight is not going to have much impact outside of sniping, so I would recommend taking the Talisman of Preservation, or mount or her a Dark Steed/Pegasus. Regarding Witch Elves, I take the Banner of Swiftness when I use them with a Cauldron. That +1 movement and extra inch for charging is always welcome. You could take the Razor Standard, but seeing as you Hag will have 4-8 attacks ignoring armour, I don't think you will need it. Personally, when I take Darkshards, I give them Musician and call it a day. Full Command might be useful on larger units, but in units of ten, keep them cheap as chips. If you were to mount your mage, I think you could completely drop the Dreadspears, freeing up points for Special units. With the free points, you could take a healthy-sized unit of Black Guard, Executioners or CoK. You really will want a unit that can deal with High armour units, and these offer that. Ultimately though, it comes down to what you like the look, what you would like to paint and what you like to play. Everyone has different play styles. Find how you wish to play and build on it from there. Hope this helps, Provo.

[Provo2100]

Is your SS in the Dreadspears? If so, the Cloak of Twilight is not going to have much impact outside of sniping, so I would recommend taking the Talisman of Preservation, or mount or her a Dark Steed/Pegasus. Regarding Witch Elves, I take the Banner of Swiftness when I use them with a Cauldron. That +1 movement and extra inch for charging is always welcome. You could take the Razor Standard, but seeing as you Hag will have 4-8 attacks ignoring armour, I don't think you will need it. Personally, when I take Darkshards, I give them Musician and call it a day. Full Command might be useful on larger units, but in units of ten, keep them cheap as chips. If you were to mount your mage, I think you could completely drop the Dreadspears, freeing up points for Special units. With the free points, you could take a healthy-sized unit of Black Guard, Executioners or CoK. You really will want a unit that can deal with High armour units, and these offer that. Ultimately though, it comes down to what you like the look, what you would like to paint and what you like to play. Everyone has different play styles. Find how you wish to play and build on it from there. Hope this helps, Provo.

Hello again mate

Yes, that was the plan, but I changed it a bit, after your advices I mean, I made an attempt to change it, so I could add some hard-hitters

I actually had the plan to my Witch Elves the Razor Standard, but i'm not quite sure yet, in my new list, they have it, but I can always change that

I've taken your advice on my Darkshards and I think you have a pretty good point, so I stripped them down to only musician, like you recommended me to. Saved some important points!

Regarding the Surpreme Sorceress, I guessed the Dark Pegasus, was the best option? So I choose that (can be changed)

Dropped all the Dreadspears, to save the points for special, just like you said. Now my new issue, is what to take?
I can take 10x Cold One Knights, with Full Command and Banner of Swiftness and hit exactly 2500 pts, with all the other choices, like Razor Standard for the Witch Elves and Dark Pegasus for the Supreme Sorceres etc...

I guess you're right about that too! hehe well, i'm not sure what i'd like to do when playing, but I bet i'll find out quick! uhm, but I think most of the models look good in a way, but I do have a soft spot for the Executioners, somehow. Though, I don't think they can fit in, I mean i'll need like 30-40x right? I can afford that (pointwise), if I want to keep my Hydras, Kharibdyss (which, I really do!)

New List:

Lord:

Supreme Sorceres: Dark Lore, Lvl 4, Tome of Furion, Cloak of Twillight, Dispel Scroll, Dark Pegasus.
= 370 pts.

Hero:

Death Hag: Cauldron of Blood, Rune of Khaine, Obsidian Blade, Battle Standard Bearer.
= 390 pts.

Core:

30x Witch Elves: Hag, Musician, Standard Bearer, Razor Standard.
= 405 pts.

10x Darkshards: Musician
= 130 pts.

10x Darkshards: Musician
= 130 pts.

5x Dark Riders: Herald, Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields:
= 115 pts.

Special:

1x War Hydra: Fiery Breath
= 180 pts.

10x Cold One Knights: Dread Knight, Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Swiftness.
= 345 pts.

1x Repeater Bolt Thrower:
= 70 pts.

1x Repeater Bolt Thrower:
= 70 pts.

Rare:

1x Kharibdyss:
= 160 pts.

5x Doomfire Warlocks: Master
= 135 pts.

Total: 2500 pts.

Please feel free, to give some pointers

In a way i'd like to add some Exectioners somehow, instead of maybe the Cold One Knights, it's not a MUST and it also depends on what i'm going to strip down, to being able to add them. If you guys have an idea to execute this, i'm all ears

Let me know what you think of it

Also, would it be better to get another War Hydra to hold up enemy units? Now that the Dreadspears are gone.

[Akholrak]

The list is looking much more competitive. Just so you know, you can't take both the Tome of Furion and the Dispel Scroll as they are both Arcane items. I would also drop the Champion and Banner upgrades off the Dark Riders and give them Crossbows. Though they will only hit on 5's or 6's, it gives them something extra to do. I.e. Shoot chaff/Warmachines, even get a lucky Wound on a Monster. I would also drop the champ on the Warlocks, unless you literally have nowhere else to put the points. One Hydra and K-beast is fine. Anything that the Hydra can hold up competently (S3 infantry or Cavalry if you get the charge), the Witch Elves will steamroll over. Just watch out with the Witch Elves as smart opponents will lead them round the board all game and they'll only kill a fraction of their points. Best of luck.Post a Battle Report if you have the time.

[Detherius Zythaal]

The list looks well balanced and has potential.

Some remarks about the list:

For your sorceress, a dark steed would be cheaper than the pegasus, would give her the fast cav rule and would allow her to hide in a unit of warlock or rider if needed. That would give you points for Cry of War on your hag, which would help to protect her and her unit.

Champ in the warlocks not needed

Never give command to small units of fast cav, although a musician can be handy if you can spare the points.

I prefer DR with RXB

Since you have a lot of points in core, you may drop 1 unit of Darkshards and replace it with a unit of 7-8 shades.

You will have to choose between the Tome and the Scroll, the scroll being the best option.