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Leadership structure? (long) 
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Warrior

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:37 am
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A quick scan of other boards show that many races are preparing for the SoC. Every place I have been to seems to be formulating, or has already formed, some sort of council to direct their race's efforts in the campaign. Most of these are located on locked or protected forums. What are we Druchii doing in this area. Are there any plans for a centralised leadership? I have read the threads here and would like to repeat a suggestion that I made earlier.

We should have two forums dedicated to SoC. One of these should be an open area, like this one, where all members can post their suggestions of where to attack, various stratagies, questions etc. The second should be the one where final decisions are actually made regarding the mechanics of our attack. I suggest that this should be a locked forum, available only to mod, or similar "trustworthy" generals. They can discuss the ideas posted on the open forum and formulate a stratagy. This should then be broken down into a list of perhaps 3 areas for attack and posted on the open forum. This will achieve a number of aims;

1. The open forum will give everyone a say in the running of the campaign, allowing for maximum inclusion.

2. since everyone will be able to access the open forum, potentially all Druchii can have access to the master plan and thus maximise this site's biggest advantage, that of size. If every DE player can work together using Druchii.net as a focal point our world wide effort will be so much more effective.

3. Having several targets, one main (probably Lustria from the rumours), and a couple of secondary ones will introduce some element of choice into the forum. Players will feel that they have some free-will while remaining within a structured framework that ensures their efforts will not be wasted. It also gives them some choice of target if they don't agree with the main objective.

4. Multiple targets will also confuse our opponants and force them to fight on several fronts, maximising our advantage of size. By attacking in several places thay will be forced to stretch their defences and also will not know where our main thrust is. A small elite force of Druchii operating off the closed forum will be able to take advantage of this by conducting surgical strikes in crucial areas that have been neglected.

5. The closed forum will ensure that only a few Druchii actually plan the campaign, even though everyone can have their say. This means that our overall efforts will be focussed and concentrated for maximum effect.

I believe that this method will be effective in creating an atmosphere of inclusion and free-will whilst still keeping within a useful framework, directed at an overall stratagy.

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Tue Jan 06, 2004 2:15 pm
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Good ideas. I will definatly take theminto consideration as time goes by. For now though let the SCO take care of things and keep discusing your good ideas.

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Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:29 pm
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whos to say that we already dont have a closed forum in truth....maybe we dont know about it. or we may not and just procrastinate till the end and would still crush the opposition...... either way itll be fun

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Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:44 pm
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At some point we have to come out and say what our strategy is, so I don't think having that decision made in a locked forum is going to help at all. As far as making a unified decision, I think that can be made on the open forum. We just have to come to a specific choice, which could easily be determined by a poll after some discussion. The most active members of this site tend to present the best arguements and thus are heeded the most. I have complete confidence that they will be able to lead the community to make a decision that would be best for the Druchii.

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Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:15 am
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One thing to consider, there are obviously extremely divergent opinions on this site as to which paths to take (i.e. destroy chaos or ally with them). While I see benefits on both sides, I think it may be difficult to reconsile the different paths DE generals wish to tread. Would it be unreasonable to come up with a Pro-Chaos and Anti-Chaos split method of handling this? Granted I know it undermines our racial position in a way, but I suspect any other method may alienate a number of generals... If someone has a good compromise solution, please let me know. Many thanks.

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Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:05 am
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Teifion of Khemri
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Geophrim wrote:
One thing to consider, there are obviously extremely divergent opinions on this site as to which paths to take (i.e. destroy chaos or ally with them). While I see benefits on both sides, I think it may be difficult to reconsile the different paths DE generals wish to tread. Would it be unreasonable to come up with a Pro-Chaos and Anti-Chaos split method of handling this? Granted I know it undermines our racial position in a way, but I suspect any other method may alienate a number of generals... If someone has a good compromise solution, please let me know. Many thanks.


I think it is a good idea, as underway knows I am trying to rally all Tomb King players on this site so that we can all decide what we want while not hindering our best friends (cough, cough).

I would hate to be alienated, now if only I knew what it meant.....

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Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:27 am
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Quote:
At some point we have to come out and say what our strategy is, so I don't think having that decision made in a locked forum is going to help at all. As far as making a unified decision, I think that can be made on the open forum.


The idea of the closed/locked forum would not just be to make the final decision. This would be a major aspect of it's member's responsibility, but they would have other duties.

The main advantage of the locked forum would be that the discussions would be between members who knew each other and could trust (as far as is possible with Druchii) that they are not spying for other sites. This would give them the freedom to discuss far-ranging plans beyond merely "let's attack Lustria". They could truely plan the campaign, set dates for invasions, plot vast scheming stratagies and generally act like true Druchii.

They could also use the forum as a staging point for surgical strikes. Working together as a covert operations team the forum members could place their wins in areas undefended by the CoL because the main Druchii attack is falling on another area, and it says on the open forum that this is the target! This way, some misdirection can be introduced into the campaign and hopefully allow us to surprise our opponants. Also, by attacking in undefended locations it may be possible to draw forces away from the front line to defend other areas, thus weakening their defences in the main target areas.

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Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:20 pm
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Teifion of Khemri
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Kheinach wrote:
Quote:
At some point we have to come out and say what our strategy is, so I don't think having that decision made in a locked forum is going to help at all. As far as making a unified decision, I think that can be made on the open forum.


The idea of the closed/locked forum would not just be to make the final decision. This would be a major aspect of it's member's responsibility, but they would have other duties.

The main advantage of the locked forum would be that the discussions would be between members who knew each other and could trust (as far as is possible with Druchii) that they are not spying for other sites. This would give them the freedom to discuss far-ranging plans beyond merely "let's attack Lustria". They could truely plan the campaign, set dates for invasions, plot vast scheming stratagies and generally act like true Druchii.

They could also use the forum as a staging point for surgical strikes. Working together as a covert operations team the forum members could place their wins in areas undefended by the CoL because the main Druchii attack is falling on another area, and it says on the open forum that this is the target! This way, some misdirection can be introduced into the campaign and hopefully allow us to surprise our opponants. Also, by attacking in undefended locations it may be possible to draw forces away from the front line to defend other areas, thus weakening their defences in the main target areas.


I think that you have spotted the idea of it in one Kheinach, basically there would be a big forum, a locked forum and an announcement forum (or maybe the first and last would be combined)

Then we all give our suggestion in the big forum, they are taken into the locked forum and the results announced to the massess who then post victories in a strategic way, we can't loose.

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Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:26 pm
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Geophrim wrote:
While I see benefits on both sides, I think it may be difficult to reconsile the different paths DE generals wish to tread. Would it be unreasonable to come up with a Pro-Chaos and Anti-Chaos split method of handling this? Granted I know it undermines our racial position in a way, but I suspect any other method may alienate a number of generals... If someone has a good compromise solution, please let me know. Many thanks.


I think that idea has merit, especially because the two stances aren't mutually exclusive: if a DE player wants to help Chaos storm Middenheim, that's wonderful. If not, they can join Morathi in Lustria.

However, putting priority on one area or the other would probably be a benefit. Our major advantage with this site is numbers. If we could get everyone to agree to concentrate on a particular area if we're having difficulty, I think we'd have a major advantage. The obvious problem there is determining what target(s) warrant rallying every Druchii general to attack.


Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:13 pm
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The example in EOT to look at was the Green Kroosade. A sideline army that went on to play a major role in the outcome. The Eldar did the same to a lesser extent, but they were constrained by having actual objectives to deal with. We must look to our objectives and decide what should be done. We then must work toward being on the same sheet of music when it comes to our battles.

Dividing ourselves may have some benefits, but I am guessing that any fights against chaos in this campaign will count as a loss for us, similar to chaos v. Orks in EOT counted as a loss for disorder.

I Can't imagine GW letting us go completely Rogue. Pitty, cause it would be fun to be the ultimate spoiler.

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Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:35 pm
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Teifion of Khemri
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I have put this information on the other topic (a funny idea).

Basically the Tomb Kings are thinking of attacking the skaven as they are easier to deal with.

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Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:10 pm
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overall this sounds like a good idea. I am all for the locked/unlocked forum concept, with mods and a limited few trusted generals making the main decisions in a locked forum while general tactical announcements, reports from the field, and thoughts from the masses would be posted in the open forum we already have here.

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Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:49 pm
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i think i locked forum would be useful.

the members that are included ibn the locke forum could look at the open one at take the ideas filter out all the impossibilities and then set to work planing how to execute them and when they will happen;.

it would also be useful because this will be alot easier then PMing each other over and over.

but this is just my thoughts and ill be happy with whatever everyone slse wants to do.


Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:08 pm
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A lock Forum seems very nice...
I`m all for it.


Fallenone...


Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:20 pm
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I am actually against a locked forum for a few reasons.

Essentially it alienates a number of members.

It also creates less ideas that are generated.

It creates more work for me to do background checks on everyone (boring and I don't have time for it) so that we don't have spies.

The way things are right now allow everyone to talk about what they want, what they think is best and deny the enemies spies the pleasure of actually knowing what we are going to do as there are so many opinions. I am actively encouraging as many opinions as possible an putting off the Leadership debate so that the enemies of the DE will have no idea what is going on.

A closed forum will reduce this sharing of ideas and create an elietism that is not very "fluffy" WRT this website. We are an inclusive bunch. I would hate to see that damaged.

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Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:29 pm
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High Lord Axus wrote:
I think that you have spotted the idea of it in one Kheinach, basically there would be a big forum, a locked forum and an announcement forum (or maybe the first and last would be combined)

Then we all give our suggestion in the big forum, they are taken into the locked forum and the results announced to the massess who then post victories in a strategic way, we can't loose.


This idea has the most merit. Everyone gets a say in the big forum so they don't feel left out, and each person can choose to follow the locked forum or not. It's a win-win.


Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:20 pm
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Based on what underway has said I have slightly changed my stance. lets create a locked forum closer to the time of SoC.

I the meantime I have a few ideas

Depose of Malekith and get a better ruler

"Hey, what are you doing, get off me, I'm warning you, I...."
*High Lord Axus is hit over the head and dragged off to the dungeons"

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Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:11 pm
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So, I suppose the question becomes one of: how to proceed from here. Is everyone open to the idea of setting up a site wide POLL then, as a start, to figure out the format of how the discussion should go? Not to belittle the efforts of Underway and DarkAliance (who are doing a FANTASTIC JOB, and I have NO DESIRE of stealing their thunder--just want to help the process along for the betterment of the Druchii) but maybe it's time to start consolidating our racial opinion of the SoC issue, if the other races are already super directed (I want the DE to dominate this new campaign, and will do everything I can to help that result occur)?... I'm not too sure how this would work, but maybe a multi-category poll with the following quesions: "DO you want an OPEN poll/Closed Poll method of discussing the issue", "Are you comfortable with an appointed Council making tactical decisions for the race on where/how to strike", "Who are the best groups to ally with", "Are you confortable with a full alliance, or only a non-aggression strategy"... If someone likes this idea and can think of a way to run with it, I'd be grateful (I'm not even sure how to create a poll to be honest... :oops: )

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Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:05 am
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we must make a poll to know if we want to have a general, locked and announcement forum or not.
and very quickly.

if we don't have generals, we will lose the war.....

PS : Keïnach and Kheinach are two different persons !! :D

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Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:40 am
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Geophrim wrote:
(I'm not even sure how to create a poll to be honest... :oops: )


Well you go to Start Topic button and then have look at the stuff down the bottom.

You type in the Question text - e.g. "How stupid is Geophrim"

Then type in an answer - "He's not"

Click the add question button to add that question

Continue until the poll looks like this

How stupid is Geophrim
He's Not
He's a Genius
Dumber than a snotling

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Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:07 pm
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Quote:
I am actually against a locked forum for a few reasons.

Essentially it alienates a number of members.

It also creates less ideas that are generated.



I'm afraid I don't agree. A locked forum would, by implication, exclude many members, but this does not neccessarily mean they will be alienated. That's the point of the open forum. Everyone gets to have a say in the plans, and everyone has an equal chance of their idea being considered and accepted (assuming it's a sensible plan :D ).

Secondly, I don't think the locked forum would lead to fewer ideas being generated. Every member will have to opportunity to post on the open forum, so there should be just as many ideas being generated as there would be without a locked forum. The point of the locked forum is to shift out the bad ideas from the good ones and link them to form a coherent plan. Also, I don't think that having a multitude of ideas is neccessarily a good thing. Of course variety is essential, but it's far better to have three good, focussed ideas than a dozen vague themes on "let's attack (insert race here)".

Quote:
It creates more work for me to do background checks on everyone (boring and I don't have time for it) so that we don't have spies.


This I do agree with. I'm sure you admin people have far better things to do with your time, and I wouldn't want to add to your burden. However, I don't think that background checks will be neccessary. The simplest way to overcame the problem of spies is for the locked forum to comprise of admin members. I realise that this is rather eliteist and not very democratic, but at least it would result in a group of people who can be relied upon not to spy for other sites. If this is too much, then you could recruit those people with the largest number of posts (and therefore most likely, the longest serving members). This would result in a council of respected and experienced generals that you would know at lot about without having to run background checks. If you like, a voting system could be created to choose between a number of such individuals, to add at least a semblence of democracy into the process.

Quote:
The way things are right now allow everyone to talk about what they want, what they think is best and deny the enemies spies the pleasure of actually knowing what we are going to do as there are so many opinions. I am actively encouraging as many opinions as possible an putting off the Leadership debate so that the enemies of the DE will have no idea what is going on.


Again, I agree with you on this. Exclusion is not good for this, or any group. However, I am not saying that all this should happen tomorrow. The system, even if it is acceptable to the members of this site, cannot and should not be implemented just so that it looks like we're doing something towards the campaign. I would hold off on the creation of the locked forum until we at least know for certain the game mechanics and objectives for this campaign. I am merely putting an idea on the table to get the ball rolling and generate some discussion on this topic. I'm sure you agree that there must be some form of organisation to this site, and I am simply suggesting a way forwards. By proposing this idea so far in advance of the campaign it gives plenty of time for open discussion on the system to sound out members for their opinions, discover any flaws in the system and if possible, make improvements and refinements to the idea. I think of this as a template for future development, not as the final stage in how I think this campaign should be directed.

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Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:03 pm
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I think a "High Command" forum should be created. This forum should only be open to members of the High Command. The results of comments/polls etc here will then be discussed amongst the High Command who will then give orders.

Sounds like the military, doesn't it? Amazing! ;)

Democracy works because it is representative democracy not true democracy. Hence we vote for our High Command and they decide for us after taking into consideration the concerns of their constituency, the overriding strategic position and our racial aims.

Sounds a lot like government, doesn't it? Amazing! ;)

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Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:30 pm
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At the moment we do not know for sure what the campaign mechanics are. Browsing the other sites I see many posts for and against various pacts / alliances / allegiances or promises ( call them what you may ), with all sorts of different races. Each site whether it be druchii.net, the blood keep, or the chaos site seems to have an element of foresight equalled by an element of mistrust.

At this point in time I feel we should continue with this forum whilst we wait for further information about how the campaign will work and, full details of the DE / Slaanesh variant list. We should continue to keep our options open by not being narrow-minded and alienating ourselves from people such as Chaos and we should continue to gather information from wherever we can.

Once we have the necessary information then I think a closed forum with a carefully selected 'Strategic Command' should be implemented. The members though need to be experienced in battle, fluff and intrigue IMO in order to be effective. They will also need to be trusted members of druchii.net ( those whom are well known to other members ).

My votes are for ( in no particular order ) :

Underway as he is doing a fine job orchestrating all this so far
Malekithau - our tactics guru
JeffLeong - a very experienced and successful tournament player
Langmann - 'nuff said
Ash0110 - very good army and tactic analyst


Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:40 pm
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I'd repeat the comments that I put in the thread on lessons learnt from EoT.

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=75

(Hope that link works)

The comments are:
Loads of ideas here . . . but the main points I've seen in this thread are:
1. We all agree we need some degree of co-ordination in our attacks;
2. Whatever we do not all Druchii will agree or follow that;
3. Until the campaign mechanics are available we cannot define our strategy.

In view of this I would propose that we:
a. Keep an open and public debate about who and what we want to get in SoC;
b. Form a SoC Council to debate privately the merits of the various points from the open discussion and targets for the campaign (based on its mechanics);
c. The Council publish the SUGGESTED targets for the campaign. These could change during the campaign based on how things go.

This allows our members to do what they want but, and this in only my opinion, I believe most here would follow the suggestions. By leaving the publishing of targets to the last thing our enemies (who may be spying on this site) will have to live with it or react incredibly quickly (suggesting a level of organization that they probably haven't got).

Also, having just gone through this topic,
1. Like the suggested council; and
2. Copying what I put in a previous thread shows that this is getting to be a seriously convoluted topic (lots of threads saying many of the same things). Although we don't need our final tactics worked out yet I would IMHO, suggest that a single thread me created for each of the following SoC topics: tactics; organization and fluff. I MUST stress that I think the work being done to run this stuff already is great, it's just that I can forsee you guys getting snowed under with dozens of SoC threads before the campaign even starts.

Cheers

Sha'a'alaar


Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:36 am
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I echo the thoughts about locking similar threads and keeping everything more structured in this forum.

Sticky threads should be started covering each relevant topic, with the same rules we made in the Revision forum, anything off topic in any particular thread will be deleted for the sake of clarity.

Underway?


Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:26 am
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