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Flesh and Blood - How Was the Game Decided & Questions 
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Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
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Everyone can now ask Jeff Leong how each battlesite was determined to win, fall, or slide. What were his victory conditions, and what were the fluff prizes?

Any other questions as well are also good. Complaints and suggestions are also welcome, if we decide to do this again we want to know what works and what didn't. Please try and respect everyone else, as Jeff tried to be as fair as possible.

I also think we owe Jeff a big round of applause for taking time out of his schedule and running a good campaign. On top of all this he writes articles for the NA White Dwarf as well as wins a few Grand Tournaments on the side.

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While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:25 pm
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i think everyone who worked on this campaign desereves a round of applause as well as jeff. you to deserve some credit Langmann and you to Nag, you both did important jobs.

i think Kala to deserves a round of applause too, he did some great work in his war diary and helped me with my frequently.

*Voodoomaster starts to applaude everyone who was involved in the running of the campaign*

also one final thanks from me to DarkPrincess, you have been a worthy adversary.

*Voodoomaster, bows low to Darkprincess.*

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"For every victory there is a defeat, for every defeat there is a victory. My victory, my defeat are for all to see..."
Khael Vraneth, Lord-General of Khaine.


Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:39 pm
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Well, something I'd like to see next time is the teams getting more involved into fluff things. They did that for example in the Sundering campaign, where we were to hold Vaul's Anvil for a couple of turns. We were assigned to this beforehand. I don't know how far team slaanesh was involved, but I'm guessing about the same as Team Khaine.

But, kudos to Jeff. I think I speak for the bigger part of our community when I say he's done a great job, like everyone who was involved :)


Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:40 pm
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Chosen Babe of Slaanesh
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And so it ends....

Its been a good campaign, despite the interest tailing off following the site crash, and I've had a lot of fun. Credit goes to all involved, especially voodoomaster for being a great general who just happenned to pick the wrong side ;)

I still have some fluff to write in the aftermath but even I don't know how that is going to turn out yet. Time will tell...

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The Dark Princess
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Give yourself over to absolute pleasure
Swim the warm waters of sins of the flesh
Erotic nighmares beyond any measure
And sensual daydreams to treasure forever


Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:32 pm
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I too would like to thank everyone that made this an interesting campaign to be a part of. My friends might not be nearly as happy, as everytime I saw a change, I would spend hours haranging and cajoling them to play me.

I thought that using the fluff that people wrote was a great idea. It promotes people to writing thier own, and makes them believe that thier battles make a difference. I know I was not near the battle count of some, but just knowing I made a little difference prompted me to participate more.

The part I would like to have changed... well, consider this a suggestion... The battle sites didn't seem to change very much. Perhaps niether side reached a conclusory victory, but I think more battle sites opening up would have pulled people in a little more. For instance, in the Southern reaches, I thought at one point it was sure to open up a new site farther in. However, it began to feel like a battle "sink" so to speak. I feel like I'm rambling here, so if you want to know more, PM me and I'll gladly talk more.

Thank you all again.

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"Khaine only embraces death, while the Cult of Pleasure embraces life and all of its aspects. I often wonder how people have trouble choosing between the two."

~Lady Xaniphera, preistess of Slaanesh


Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:48 pm
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Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
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Onyx Paladin wrote:

The part I would like to have changed... well, consider this a suggestion... The battle sites didn't seem to change very much. Perhaps niether side reached a conclusory victory, but I think more battle sites opening up would have pulled people in a little more. For instance, in the Southern reaches, I thought at one point it was sure to open up a new site farther in. However, it began to feel like a battle "sink" so to speak. I feel like I'm rambling here, so if you want to know more, PM me and I'll gladly talk more.

Thank you all again.


I agree with this. I think we could have changed some more sites, though I liked what happened in the North.

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While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:52 pm
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Blasphemer and Heretic
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Well, I had fun all around. The story was easy to get into and add to (thus my huge volume of fluff).

A big thanks to Langmann, Jeff, Nag, and everyone who helped put it together. And big fat thanks to everyone for playing with me, both on the tabletop and in my journal. Yes, that means you as well, Asur. :D

I don't really have any questions about how the campaign was run. I played, I fought, I wrote a story, and I died dramatically. Seemed pretty straightforward to me. But I did have an idea back in November that would have been cool if it had been implemented. If each area had it's own little sub-map and assorted entry sites, it might have added an extra layer of depth to both the plotlines and tactics. It would also solve Onyx Paladin's issue about the static nature of the battle sites.

I'm willing to volunteer my help when the next d.net online campaign is being hatched.

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Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:25 am
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Only one thing to add and it's more of a website issue than one concerning the campaign itself - if we do another campaign like this, please can we have the map working in browsers other than IE - having to reboot into windows just to view the campaign map was a serious pain. Firefox (the browser of choice for anyone concerned about online safety and security) won't show the map at all (in Windows or in Linux - not sure about on the Mac - I'll ask Auric about this). With more and more people dropping IE for something a lot safer these days, it makes good sense to support these browsers in future.

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The Dark Princess
High Priestess of the Cult Of Pleasure


Give yourself over to absolute pleasure
Swim the warm waters of sins of the flesh
Erotic nighmares beyond any measure
And sensual daydreams to treasure forever


Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:22 pm
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Warmaster of Slaanesh
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Onyx Paladin wrote:
I too would like to thank everyone that made this an interesting campaign to be a part of. My friends might not be nearly as happy, as everytime I saw a change, I would spend hours haranging and cajoling them to play me.

I thought that using the fluff that people wrote was a great idea. It promotes people to writing thier own, and makes them believe that thier battles make a difference. I know I was not near the battle count of some, but just knowing I made a little difference prompted me to participate more.

The part I would like to have changed... well, consider this a suggestion... The battle sites didn't seem to change very much. Perhaps niether side reached a conclusory victory, but I think more battle sites opening up would have pulled people in a little more. For instance, in the Southern reaches, I thought at one point it was sure to open up a new site farther in. However, it began to feel like a battle "sink" so to speak. I feel like I'm rambling here, so if you want to know more, PM me and I'll gladly talk more.

Thank you all again.


Good comment ... the reason we didn't do this in the other sites is that there simply weren't enough reports to make changes reasonable.

As for the sites not moving, there were several periods during which very little was reported. The main thrust at first was the HE area, although it did finally settle in to Ghrond as the focus. The Northern area was split based on number of reports and a fluff piece describing raids into Chaos-controlled areas. All told, I would guess the Arnhelm area still had the most reports.

J


Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:35 pm
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darkprincess wrote:
Only one thing to add and it's more of a website issue than one concerning the campaign itself - if we do another campaign like this, please can we have the map working in browsers other than IE - having to reboot into windows just to view the campaign map was a serious pain. Firefox (the browser of choice for anyone concerned about online safety and security) won't show the map at all (in Windows or in Linux - not sure about on the Mac - I'll ask Auric about this). With more and more people dropping IE for something a lot safer these days, it makes good sense to support these browsers in future.


If I get to help out on the next one, I have a pretty robust cross browser script worked out that is DOM1 compliant.

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Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:35 pm
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I have nothing to say other than to congratulate all those who participated in the campaign - be they techs, fluffers, rulers or simply players. Pity not so many people reported battles, but it was great being able to carve our own piece of fame by reacting to GW's making the CoP "come out." Especially given we reacted in so little time following the conclusion of the Storm of Chaos. The campaign helped me immensely (in terms of fluff, mostly), and I appreciated the fact that the taint of Chaos did not touch Asadh Vehlta's home city of Har Ganeth. Besides, who would rightfully pass up an occasion to purge Naggaroth of the Cult once more?

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All my eloquence fails to express it as well as this.


Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:05 pm
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Who says the Cult is purged?

J


Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:09 pm
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jeffleong13 wrote:
Who says the Cult is purged?


A loyal follower of the king. ;)

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General Kala wrote:
Cenyu wrote:
Hail to the King, baby.
All my eloquence fails to express it as well as this.


Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:22 pm
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First I wanted to congratulate everyone who played and created the campaign. Jeff, Nag, and Langmann definately deserve our applause. As do all the commanders and fluff writers from Voodoomaster to darkprincess.

Secondly, I want to know what fluff carrots each side would have gotten for differnt percentages. Mainly,

1. What would have happened if Asur had won at Wrath Gate early on?
2. What percentage did the slaves need to get a better ending so to speak? Was there ever really a chance to destroy Karond Kar?
3. What percentage did the Dwarves need to get a better ending and what would it have been?
4. How close was chaos to keeping part of the watchtowers?
5. Of course how would you have re-written Druchii fluff if the cult had won the day?


Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:29 pm
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The important thing to remember is that very little was ever set on how this would go. We could not radically alter the GW fluff, which meant we could not kill any major GW characters ... and we couldn't have major "Warhammer World-affecting" events like the destruction of Arnhelm of the fall of Naggarond.

Lathaine wrote:
1. What would have happened if Asur had won at Wrath Gate early on?


Most likely something similar to what happened with the 6th Gate - HE try to build a new fortification to keep out the DE. As you may recall, the HE were winning the Wrath Gates at first and were trying to break the seals on them in order to use them for their own ends.

Lathaine wrote:
2. What percentage did the slaves need to get a better ending so to speak? Was there ever really a chance to destroy Karond Kar?


There wasn't a set percentage, but they probably would have had to get in the 35-45% control region to make any major impact. I consider the fact that they were actually able to organize and stage a (largely unsucessful) revolt to be a significant acheivement, considering their lot in life. As for destroying Karond Kar, I cannot envision a situation where this would have happened - the Cult was not interested in destroying the city and the Temple wasn't going to. The Slaves simply never had the manpower ...

Lathaine wrote:
3. What percentage did the Dwarves need to get a better ending and what would it have been?


Again, no set percentage. A lot of the battles we got in were Dwarf vs. Skaven, which was why they ended up fighting each other in the Underway. It was never the Dwarfs' intent to occupy the Underway for any significant period of time, but they sure would have liked to have settled a couple of grudges ... now they have a few more instead.

Lathaine wrote:
4. How close was chaos to keeping part of the watchtowers?


Chaos would have had to be in a rather commanding position to hold something that for so long had belonged to the Druchii. Malekith would never allow such an incursion to stand for long. As it was, the Watchtowers were close enough that, while the DE were victorious, the enemy escaped, making the victory somewhat more hollow.

Lathaine wrote:
5. Of course how would you have re-written Druchii fluff if the cult had won the day?


Hmmm ... I guess we'll never know ...

J


Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:41 pm
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Oh, and by the way ... the final chapter will be posted soon - we still haven't seen what happens at Ghrond, have we?

J


Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:43 pm
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Ooh, I can feel the tension's mounting...:P


Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:51 pm
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Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
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There were about 700 battle reports submitted. I think that was a great first run. Also I think the majority of them were real reports because they required more than the point and click voting style of the GW online campaigns.

So kudos to the players they made the campaign.

BTW the final fluff is now up.

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While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:25 pm
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Thanks for replying so fast, but I have one more question: Why were the races allied to the Asur at 6th gate and Arnhelm never mentioned in the fluff? I considered that a bit odd since I knew of at least a dozen Bret players in the campaign. Did we just not report enough battles or did you want to keep the battle for Arnhelm from becoming Druchii vs. the world.


Last edited by Lathaine on Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:07 pm
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Can I assume the Temple has won the day after all at Ghrond?


Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:11 pm
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Malekith's Tastetester & Physician
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Lethalis wrote:
Can I assume the Temple has won the day after all at Ghrond?


The Khainites had the advantage in the campaign, but they didn't completely wipe out the Cult. Which means that there was no decisive victory and the Cult has gained some credibility. That is to say most druchii still worship Khaine, most druchii despise Cultists, but its not necessarily illegal to be a Cultist.

Malekith stopped the final battle so I think he has a use for the Cult still. Like he has a use for everything else he lets live in the fair land of Naggaroth. ;)

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While running a million dollar company, singing at weddings, and his frequent jetting to Spain Elton Jon style, Dark Alliance found the time to stand on the doorstep of Games Workshop like Moses and the Pharoah and calmly state, "Let my people go."


Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:15 pm
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Lathaine wrote:
Thanks for replying so fast, but I have one more question: Why were the races allied to the Asur at 6th gate and Arnhelm never mentioned in the fluff? I considered that a bit odd since I knew of at least a dozen Bret players in the campaign. Did we just not report enough battles or did you want to keep the battle for Arnhelm from becoming Druchii vs. the world.


The focus at Arnhelm was always HE vs. DE. Although there were several battles reported by other forces (mainly Brettonians), it just didn't make sense to go DE vs. the world there. Almost every race had somewhere that they could enter battles - all human interaction with the campaign was designed to take place at Karond Kar, which would have contributed to the slave revolt (and perhaps given it a better chance).

J


Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:35 pm
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langmann wrote:
Lethalis wrote:
Can I assume the Temple has won the day after all at Ghrond?


The Khainites had the advantage in the campaign, but they didn't completely wipe out the Cult. Which means that there was no decisive victory and the Cult has gained some credibility. That is to say most druchii still worship Khaine, most druchii despise Cultists, but its not necessarily illegal to be a Cultist.

Malekith stopped the final battle so I think he has a use for the Cult still. Like he has a use for everything else he lets live in the fair land of Naggaroth. ;)


Excellent point - note that Malekith did not ban the Cult ... he only stopped the war.

J


Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:36 pm
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So actually...nothing has changed as the Temple 'was powerless to resist this threat' anyway? :p


Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:04 pm
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The Temple was hardly powerless ... Malekith just didn't toss the Cult out completely. Perhaps he still has plans for them.

J


Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:22 pm
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