2000 Points of Asur for 2000 Posts of Druchii

[Lother]

My list is just a different approach to fielding small infantry units rather than the druchii type lists (small infantry elites-units, but high elven infantry isn't so destructive on the charge as druchii, only spears and the 0-1 expensive swordmasters get close compared to witches, corsairs, ...). I don't think his units are well supported, so I put my list here to compare the difference in support. I'm not saying my list is good, or the best mixed list, but at least it supports the infantry extremely well.

(Note: I support the use of a unit of archers, but I didn't have the points to field it)

What do you disagree with? could you send a pm?
Thanks

[Pmpn8ez]

Just a second sort of half-on, half-off topic, I just got home from "the club" after scoring a 3rd tier massacre against an Empire list with 153 models, notable units including 1 of each war machine, greatswords, big spearman units (one with griffon banner), pistoliers, a bunch of detachments, 20 handgunners, mixed other units and I think that's about it. Difference was 1897, but would have been more since he kept using stubborn ld9 for greatswords, since he thought general's ld9 could be used with stubborn ld8 greatswords. Had the unit fled 3 turns earlier when it rolled a 9, it would have been 206 less points (from spearmen), so over 2003 point difference. That's ok though; I found out at the end of turn 6 when I couldn't believe he was still holding on another roll of 9, then found out that he was using stubborn with general's ld. On a high note, the archers killed and ran down a detachment of halberdiers (9 archers v. 10 halberd) and then ran right into LoS of the never-misfiring helblaster (which only killed 4, but they failed their panic test ).

@Lother: It's not that my list doesn't support its infantry, just so you know. It also doesn't revolve around a solid battle line, but more just changes and flows according to enemy movements and what it's trying to do. As I could have shown with the game I just finished playing 40 minutes ago, the only unit that went alone against an enemy unit was an eagle vs. 2 cannon crew in turn 6; everything else was a joint charge of infantry and something else, like cavalry or 2 eagles for the flank bonus.

[Drakken]

@Lothar, the basic princple is you seem to be relying on the unit to actually do damage. Your own words "Destructive on the Charge" is where we have the disagreement. I view most Elven infantry as there not for damage, but for CR. Casulties are an added bonus, I rely on static CR from my troops. Thus, the only Elite infantry I use tends to be because it has an option I need, Corsairs/Execs to carry a Warbanner, White Lions because that means I can have 2 units that ignore terrain to a point. If I really need wounds, I use multiple chariots or characters, both of which tend to be cheap and able to add 1-2 wounds normally, which is enough to make pure CR overwhelming.

@Pmpn8ez, interesting. You do realize 2 Eagles aren't a unit, and thus won't get a flank bonus right? Either way, seems like its working for you, which means I may steal a tidbit or 2 when I next tweak my list....

[Pmpn8ez]

@Pmpn8ez, interesting. You do realize 2 Eagles aren't a unit, and thus won't get a flank bonus right? Either way, seems like its working for you, which means I may steal a tidbit or 2 when I next tweak my list....

I'd figured more along the lines of "total US5 or greater= flank, rear, etc. bonuses", but thanks for the correction before I embarass myself. I didn't end up getting one, since the eagles were on opposite sides of the board; one killed a mortar crew with the steed commander and the other killed 2 huntsmen, ran down the last, and tried to overrun into the helblaster crew, but came up an inch short. Needless to say, I finished the game with only 1 bird.

[Lord anathir]

@Drakken
How can elven infantry be there for only CR?!? Not with our most basic infantry being 11 points. I have infnatry in myu list....but the trick is not using them like a normal battle line. With their movement 10, i can choose which units is gonna charge them. either way, unless i am forced to, i never let any decent unit charge the spears and "expect" them to hold. chances are they wont. Sometimes i use them as targets for the enemy and then i flee the charge (yes, fleee, with a 19 model unit) as long as it sets up a flank of something. It always helps when the spears kill something in CC.

[Drakken]

Lord A, because I'm realistic about my expecations of my troops? Yes, Elven troops are expensive, but since I can't honestly bring myself to rely on average troops to do wounds. As to taking a charge with them...why? I never accept a charge I have a solid chance of escaping..with anything. There job is solo to add ranks/flank and standard to combats..wounds are nice, but I don't expect them because they're Elves fighting. Realistic expectations...

[Lord anathir]

True, True.... But dont you think 11 points is a little too much for our spears to accomplish? lol...thats an obvious answer....of course. But the fight in three ranks has to count for something....and the WS 4. Sometimes they CAN defend themselves....espceially if your rbts soften up the unit before hand

[Pmpn8ez]

It's not that their totally inadequate, Anathir. I think you're missing the point; spearmen can kill stuff and often they will at least do something with high WS and 3 ranks of attacks. The problem is, you are expecting them to make those kills, something which you can't really do. They will rarely meet your expectations and even more rarely justify their cost through kills; they will contribute to CR, but they cannot be the only unit doing so and it won't all be through kills.

[Drakken]

Exactly! Its not that I don't feel the will kill things, they're just not very good at it. They rely heavily on the through enough dice at a problem solution to generate wounds, and I'm never confident that will work consistently. Thus, I rely entirely on automatic CR and hits, and then can be pleasantly surprised when my Spears kill things...

[Lord anathir]

Yup....now i hear ya.....
btw, its amazing that the four of us has created so long of a thread.

[Drakken]

Basically, thats a rule I follow with all S3 Infantry unless they have 3+ Attacks or GW/Flails....it lets me be far from amazed when they suck it up.

And no....I've been part of some loooong and winding threads in my time....kinda have to be to have just short of 3K posts....that and I talk to much.

[Pmpn8ez]

3k posts ... it was an RPG, wasn't it? That chaos warband one got to something like 9 or 10 pages.