I need some tips for vampire counts

Frost808 · Post by **Frost808** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:42 pm

Hey i need some good tips for vampire counts... not the tips i arlready know(like the stuff in the back of the book) i just need some extra ordinary tips thanks....

MODERATOR EDIT: dont post titles in all caps. Linda

Danceman · Post by **Danceman** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:49 pm

have solid magic phase 7-8pd + bound stuff is generally the way i go, there are some other variants like the flying circus of death containing 3-4 strigoi vampires with bat form but really the VC army is quite open.

other than the obvious thing like all cav army or necrarch zombie army you could just as well go with alot of grave guard and use the core choices on wolves and ghouls to watch the flanks... or whatever you might think of.

but dont rely too much on magic to win you the game!

Kida · Post by **Kida** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:23 pm

-Ghouls are awesome. Have some in your army. Heck, have many...

-Skeletons are expensive. Take smallish unit (around 18), fully equipped, and then raise some more

-Zombies are great. Several units of 20-25 are needed

-at least 3 mages (including your general). Take at least 8 PD, you'll need it.

-at least 2 units of Dire Wolves. You'll need those as speed bumps, so keep units small (5)

-Bound items: BoA is the on you want to take always, Staff of Damnation is nice but not neccesary. Don't bother with the rest of them...

-2K battles: Count for normal armies, Lord for Army of Sylvannia

-always take Black Periapt

-Wights on foot aren't worth it. On the other hand, mounted ones are, very much

If you have any specific questions about units, feel free to ask...

Pmpn8ez · Post by **Pmpn8ez** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:57 pm

KidA wrote:--2K battles: Count for normal armies, Lord for Army of Sylvannia
-Wights on foot aren't worth it. On the other hand, mounted ones are, very much

I'd actually like to give a dissenting opinion on both of these. Lord in AoS detracts from the amount of thralls you can have; while not as vital as in a 'normal' VC army, these thralls are where your kills from, not the zombies. A lord is only 1 level of magic better, so it won't make all that much of a difference. So many things have MR, and there's spectral attendants, so you don't need the extra dd. It's also much cheaper to have a count; lords are so expensive that they seriously detract from the amount of points you can spend on the rest of the army.

As to wights on foot vs. mounted wights, the inverse of that comment is generally the truer. BKs are cheap for their stats and their wonderful and all that, but they get out of the general's range fast and in an army with a bunch of slow moving units and really light cavalry, you can easily afford to leave them at home. GG are half the cost, still have the stats of the BKs, and have only 1 less save in close combat if you give them shields (providing you also give the BKs barding). They can also take care of themselves, since they benefit from rank bonus and sometimes possibly outnumbering, unlike the BKs, who still need the support of other units.[/i]

Danceman · Post by **Danceman** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:13 pm

if you NEED at least 8pd you´re doin something wrong here.

im abit confused bout the BKs and GGs, they serve quite different roles and well... you dont see your whole unit destroyed if were to lose one round of combat with the GG.

i like both of em though...

Kida · Post by **Kida** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:26 pm

OK, lets go:

@pmpn8ez

-Lords vs Counts: IMO Lord is very neccesary because of a severe lacking in magic defense department. That additional DD, backed up with Periapt can be a difference between being slaughtered by magic or not. And since you're spending an unhealthy percentage of your Vamps' magic item allowance on magical defense (40 pts: Scroll and Periapt), that additional Wound comes realy handy if you don't want to buy him a Ward.

-Black Knights are one of the best, if not the best cavalry unit in the game, considering points/value ratio. While GG are nice, resilient unit, they come at 300+ pts, something I'm not willing to pay for unit with M4 that can't be risen and, truth be told, are only good at surviving, not killing. If you're not convinced, check top 10 VC armies from this years' UK GT: almost all have BKs, almost none have GGs...

@danceman

8 PD? Yeah, I'd say that's the minimum ammount of magic you need in WAAC environment to make a VC army work. No army, bar TombKings, is as dependant on magic, as are Vampires...

Post by **Vorchild** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:01 pm

Indeed, for sylvania, the extra dispel die is rather necessary. They may have a strong magic phase, but their magic defence is pretty crummy (not like they can't take the punishment mind you...

). My opinion no black knighst is they are completely kcik ass and hit harder I think than about any other unit of cav. However, I wouldn't say they are the best sicne you can't use more economical units of them and they can be fairly easily tied up when they are big an expensive. I actually find it more difficult to use black knights than other units of heavy cav.

Zentaricai · Post by **Zentaricai** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:48 pm

I switched over to 75%VC 25% DE a while back, her are my thoughts:

My main goal is to get Invoke off twice a round. That means against WAAC opponents, yes, 8PD (minimum)
Black peraipt, BoA, SoD,and sometimes the Cursed Book always make it to my armies.
I rarely use dispell scrolls (you really don't need them...You have enough DD wtih all the magic you are bringing anyway+the BP, you can always take out the most dmaging spells---if he hits anything else..who cares, they are either to big or you can make more!

As far as troop selection you really need to talk about speciific Bloodlines before saying units are "musts" or not. The only "must" unit that I have and have a lot of are Ghouls (as important to VC's as DR are to DE)...end of story!
I'm also very fond of Spirit Host--never underetimate in the heat of battle your opponent forgeting they are Ethereal.

Slayer69 · Post by **Slayer69** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:11 pm

Have big units.....fear is your best ally.....stick a vampire in your main units.....so thralll in skeletons and Count into Knights/Grave Guard (vice versa)....as already said have some magic.....9 PD would rock...but I don't know if you can manage!......

Watch your flanks...wolves are great just as Ghouls...

Forget the Black Coach for Battles that are bigger than 2k!

Use at least some kind of Bats to marchblock the enemy!

Pmpn8ez · Post by **Pmpn8ez** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:58 am

KidA wrote:OK, lets go:

@pmpn8ez

-Lords vs Counts: IMO Lord is very neccesary because of a severe lacking in magic defense department. That additional DD, backed up with Periapt can be a difference between being slaughtered by magic or not. And since you're spending an unhealthy percentage of your Vamps' magic item allowance on magical defense (40 pts: Scroll and Periapt), that additional Wound comes realy handy if you don't want to buy him a Ward.

Yes, but this is accounted for by the inordinate amount of MR units, as I mentioned before, and the 10 point MR1 as a bloodline power. Spectral attendants can be given to a thrall and is basically a cheap staff of sorcery (-1 on attempts to cast as opposed to +1 to dispel). The way I see it, there are so many other ways to get that antimagic that you really don't need to take a lord. The wound thing I can understand, but it's that hero slot and 80 points, plus the 15 extra for the level upgrade before you even get to the other stuff. If you need wounds, just heal the ones you've got?

-Black Knights are one of the best, if not the best cavalry unit in the game, considering points/value ratio. While GG are nice, resilient unit, they come at 300+ pts, something I'm not willing to pay for unit with M4 that can't be risen and, truth be told, are only good at surviving, not killing. If you're not convinced, check top 10 VC armies from this years' UK GT: almost all have BKs, almost none have GGs...

This one is harder to argue with, but S4 and KB is not what I'd classify as "bad at killing", especially since BKs are literally, the exact same thing. As undead, even as the best knights in the game for their cost (I'll give you that one right off the bat), they still need numbers and they still need the general and support units and this and that. GG are cheaper, more survivable, and can be taken in bigger numbers. Yes they're slow, but they'll pretty much always be able to march (unlike BKs) and they 'keep pace' so to speak, with the bulk of the forces. Undead need numbers and they need not to lose combats. BKs guarantee neither. Though the GT results are surprisingly (at least to me), I still think there's some other schemata that encourages BKs over GGs.

Theseus · Post by **Theseus** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:55 am

One word, Ghouls. Try to keep a balanced thing going, so ur enemy cant pick a weakness. Dont go overboard on all one thing.

Slayer69 · Post by **Slayer69** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:28 am

[quote="pmpn8ez"]This one is harder to argue with, but S4 and KB is not what I'd classify as "bad at killing", especially since BKs are literally, the exact same thing. As undead, even as the best knights in the game for their cost (I'll give you that one right off the bat), they still need numbers and they still need the general and support units and this and that.[quote="KidA"]OK, lets go:

I agree....yet only is you use them in units of 9+ your general has to be in them so that they become heyvy cavalery....in units of 5 I'd just give them a champion and use them as a flanking unit ....

Angel of algebra · Post by **Angel of algebra** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:19 am

Hi everyone

i am going to be starting a VC army, as well as my DE, and i have one question regarding

slayer69 wrote:fear is your best ally

but what if fear is also your main enemy? My main opponent is a tomb kings player, so i cant rely on fear to autobreak, for obvious reasons, so how do i use them in that situation?

Note: i do not have the VC book just yet, but i know all about all the different units, characters, bloodlines etc.

I will most likely be using Von Carstein vampires, so any tips on how to use them and their hordes against the other undead?

Slayer69 · Post by **Slayer69** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:14 am

Use 2 Vampires...1 Count and 1 Thrall...then use 2 Necromancers...as your hero choices....go for horde armies against TK....!

Hruggek · Post by **Hruggek** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:32 pm

slayer69 wrote:Use 2 Vampires...1 Count and 1 Thrall...then use 2 Necromancers...as your hero choices....go for horde armies against TK....!

I use Count and Wraith on foot with Cursed Book. It is great when you nullify the opponent's combat supremacy in hitting you.

Frost808 · Post by **Frost808** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:22 pm

I am sorry but i am not familiar with the slang you ppl use haha....i can catch some of it but alot of it i don't understand

Angel of algebra · Post by **Angel of algebra** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:46 pm

which stuff are you having trouble understanding? make a list of it and sumone can probably explain it

Dictator · Post by **Dictator** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:43 am

What would ya'll say about dire wolves, i was seeing in some armies 10 w/ a 5x2 formation. Or should I bring a unit 5 US unit? what's good for each VC bloodline?

Pmpn8ez · Post by **Pmpn8ez** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:03 am

Wolves aren't very good no matter what way you slice them since they will almost always be out of range of the general and they're easier to cut up than the vast majority of WM hunting units. I've even seen them lose when they charge WM crews (specifically, to 3 gobbos and a boss on a hill, who beat 3 of them summoned by a Sylvania power after 2 rounds of combat). If you want to take them, 5 is probably the best. 10 won't get you any rank bonus because they're fast cav, but it will get you outnumbering (something that's really not important since they have US2 anyway, so 5 is enough). 5 is cheap and can usually take out lighter WM crews, but I'd be careful around dwarfs or O@G crews with a bully, mainly because there are a lot of them and at least 1 T4 model.

Dictator · Post by **Dictator** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:30 am

On the first round do you not get the +1S? would that not take out the gobbos and boss? About how many units do you take then of these 5 dog death squads?

Q: Do you take either the fell bats or the bat swarms? if so how are they used? if not then why?

Q: Spirit hosts worth the cost? or are they just invisible POS'?

Kida · Post by **Kida** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:23 am

A: Dire Wolves are needed, in order to be able to realign enemy units. 2 units of 5 for me.

A: Fell Bats are IMO neccesary. I take 2 units of 4. Bat Swarms are far from neccesary, but they do come in handy. Try them, you might like them.

A: SH is worth its points, once you learn how to use it (it is a bit difficult). 3-4 bases should do just fine...

Dictator · Post by **Dictator** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:06 pm

Q: are ghouls best used as WM destroyers or as flank attackers? Since you can't raise anymore of these poisoned attackers about how many are a good number for 1000, 2000, and 2250pt armies???

Pmpn8ez · Post by **Pmpn8ez** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:53 pm

WM hunters with M4? The VC list has 5 better WM hunters (wolves, banshees, hosts, fell bats, swarms). They do nicely as flankers, but they rely more on kills than on taking away ranks, which they cannot do. They also work to protect your own flanks. I'm sure KidA has some other use for them, though.

Kida · Post by **Kida** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:31 pm

pmpn8ez wrote:I'm sure KidA has some other use for them, though.

Well, no.

But they do protect flanks wery well, and will make a great addition to an ongoing combat.
They'll also prohibit your enemies' movement, since no soft unit ( ala any Fast Cavalry) can afford to be charged by 5 Ghouls.
Oh, and since they are the only unit that can flee, they're great at blocking enemy Cavalry units (especially the summoned Ghouls)

WM hunters? Not their primary role, but people do tend to neglect a "threat" of 5-strong Ghoul unit and, more often than not, they are able to charge any surviving WMs, providing those aren Hellblasters.

I use 3 units in my current 2250 pts army, 2*5 and 1*6. That comes all together under 130 pts and are worth each point every time.

Dictator · Post by **Dictator** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:46 pm

alright so as both pmpn and kida are already know, I haven't played this army yet... HOWEVER I am amassing large quantities, I would like to know what ya'll think exactly of having a "Japanese or Asian" themed army... Which bloodline/s would be the best suited at fitting this theme? MAJOR conversions will befall and I would kinda like to be able to focus rather than spread my energy out.