It's been a while and I don't know if there's anyone here that remembers me, but I left WHFB for a couple years once I graduated college and now have been reading 8th ed. after the bug was put back in me. I'm rusty, so I figured I'd go to the best forum I know (even as a Lizardmen player)... Druchii.net.
So I'm facing off against a WoC in a week and a half and I want to bounce my return-to-WHFB list of anyone who cares to read. I believe it will be 2000, and this is what I put together. I don't know if I'm missing some obvious change into 8th and this wouldn't work out.
Slann (General, BSB) 400pts
- Focus Mystery (All Lore ofLife)
- Focus Ruminition (Free PD)
- War Banner (Keep the static CR on the BSB)
- Itxi Grubs, (to help in case my magic phase is about to end because I rolled terribly on the first spell and only need a little bump)
Skink Chief 380pts
- Stegadon War-Spear
- Ancient Stegadon
Skink Priest 80pts
- lvl 1, channeling staff (he's here to try and help channel extra PD and if my slann fails/miscasts, I don't always have to waste the PD, I can always throw them onto his one spell)
Skink Skirmishers x 10 70 pts
- blowpipes
Skink Skirmishers x 10 70 pts
- blowpipes
Saurus Warriors x 20 270pts
- Full Command
- Spears (potential 20 attacks on the defense.. finally.. spears are viable!)
Temple Guard x 21 (gives 5 ranks of 5 with slann) 396pts
- Full Command
- Huanchi's Blessed Totem (SUCH an under-appreciated banner in 7th and now with charging being non-constant.. This this should really help create the unplanned disaster for my opponent when he figured there was no way I'd cover the ground on a charge)
Kroxigors 6 330pts (2 ranks of 3.. support attacks rock)
Total: 1996
So basically I have 880pts in 'characters' but 270 of it is in an ancient stegadon... so it's really only 610.. The idea is to have a bunch of really solid units that just WON'T DIE because I have Lore of Life that can make them Regen, T+2/4, rise from the dead, etc. I have 2 huge hammers with the stegadon and kroxigors, 2 solid anvils that will have an 18" BSB General Ld9 chilling nearby, and some skinks for redirection.
What do you think?
Breaking Back Into The Game (2000 pts Lizardmen)
Moderator: The Dread Knights
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Furiouscado
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Lord tsunami
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you do not have enough core units im afraid.
the slann should always have standard of discipline either on himself or in his unit. also, he is no longer a large target, so he only has a 12" range on his Ld and BSB abilities.
the skink with warspear is incredibly expensive for what he actually does. i understand if you take him for giggles, but do not expect him to preform particularly well.
either the slann or the skink priest simply must have a dispel scroll and/or the cube of darkness. both itxi grubs and channeling staff can easily be excluded since none of them are particularly good.
the kroxigors are weak atm. they are pretty much worse than trolls but cost 55 instead of 35 points. the only time you actually see them is in a skink/krox unit (often 3 kroxigors with 30+ skinks deployed 6 skinks wide). 6 kroxigors will be absolutely murdered by both marauders with flails and chaos warriors since they will strike last and only has T4 and a 4+ (before mods) save. you will likely lose at least 2 before you get to strike. even if you did manage to win the combat (and you wont) the enemy will be steadfast, and the next round you will lose. kroxigors are pretty much unplayable atm, sad but true.
salamanders are by far the most powerful unit that LM has atm, since it is grossly underpriced due to being from an old ruleset where it was much much worse. you include none of them. it is not that you HAVE to use salamanders to win, but it sure becomes much easier. they are very potent against chaos. the -3 armour save will make even chaos warriors hurt from it and he has pretty much no units that can catch it, so you should be able to fire several times during the battle.
overall, your army will work as is (assuming you fix the core requirement) but it could easily become much much stronger if thats what you wanted.
/T
the slann should always have standard of discipline either on himself or in his unit. also, he is no longer a large target, so he only has a 12" range on his Ld and BSB abilities.
the skink with warspear is incredibly expensive for what he actually does. i understand if you take him for giggles, but do not expect him to preform particularly well.
either the slann or the skink priest simply must have a dispel scroll and/or the cube of darkness. both itxi grubs and channeling staff can easily be excluded since none of them are particularly good.
the kroxigors are weak atm. they are pretty much worse than trolls but cost 55 instead of 35 points. the only time you actually see them is in a skink/krox unit (often 3 kroxigors with 30+ skinks deployed 6 skinks wide). 6 kroxigors will be absolutely murdered by both marauders with flails and chaos warriors since they will strike last and only has T4 and a 4+ (before mods) save. you will likely lose at least 2 before you get to strike. even if you did manage to win the combat (and you wont) the enemy will be steadfast, and the next round you will lose. kroxigors are pretty much unplayable atm, sad but true.
salamanders are by far the most powerful unit that LM has atm, since it is grossly underpriced due to being from an old ruleset where it was much much worse. you include none of them. it is not that you HAVE to use salamanders to win, but it sure becomes much easier. they are very potent against chaos. the -3 armour save will make even chaos warriors hurt from it and he has pretty much no units that can catch it, so you should be able to fire several times during the battle.
overall, your army will work as is (assuming you fix the core requirement) but it could easily become much much stronger if thats what you wanted.
/T
I am a proud member of The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentlemen
My armies: Tomb Kings - Lizardmen - Dark Elves - Vampire Counts
My armies: Tomb Kings - Lizardmen - Dark Elves - Vampire Counts
Good points Lord Tsunami.
Only thing i would like to add is: i think you are better of with the hw&shield on the saurus. 5 extra attacks is not worth loosing +1 as and 6+ parry ward save.
Only thing i would like to add is: i think you are better of with the hw&shield on the saurus. 5 extra attacks is not worth loosing +1 as and 6+ parry ward save.
Interesting threads from the past:
BG Executioners Axe List:
Facing Ogres:
Facing WoC:
Effective use of Magic
Tips Using Harpies:
BG Executioners Axe List:
Facing Ogres:
Facing WoC:
Effective use of Magic
Tips Using Harpies:
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Furiouscado
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And this is why I posted here.. Thanks guys!
- I didn't catch the new army list point requirements.. guess I got too excited and hadn't gotten that far in the rulebook.
Just a couple follow ups:
- I'm still fuzzy on why the standard of discipline should be used.. The unit is stubborn, re-rollable, Ld 9 on 3 dice.. unless I'm missing something.
- I've had a lot of success with the chief / spear combo. Impact hits can always flub with the one die roll, but adding the second really makes sure dame is done. However, I can see it being an issue with steadfast.. I'd have to make sure it was not charging alone. Maybe I'll swap the chief out and use an EotG.. we'll see. The idea was to get one unit locked in combat and have him charge in and severely upset the balance for round 2.
- I see your point about Kroxigors.. Maybe I'll try the Kroxigor/Skink unit.. they don't look good to me because Skinks just get chewed up so you lose so much CR... I could always have 4 units of 10 skinks and the saurus block.. I just know it's not fun to fight against a ton of skirmish units.
I'll revisit this and post a new list. Thanks !!
- I didn't catch the new army list point requirements.. guess I got too excited and hadn't gotten that far in the rulebook.
Just a couple follow ups:
- I'm still fuzzy on why the standard of discipline should be used.. The unit is stubborn, re-rollable, Ld 9 on 3 dice.. unless I'm missing something.
- I've had a lot of success with the chief / spear combo. Impact hits can always flub with the one die roll, but adding the second really makes sure dame is done. However, I can see it being an issue with steadfast.. I'd have to make sure it was not charging alone. Maybe I'll swap the chief out and use an EotG.. we'll see. The idea was to get one unit locked in combat and have him charge in and severely upset the balance for round 2.
- I see your point about Kroxigors.. Maybe I'll try the Kroxigor/Skink unit.. they don't look good to me because Skinks just get chewed up so you lose so much CR... I could always have 4 units of 10 skinks and the saurus block.. I just know it's not fun to fight against a ton of skirmish units.
I'll revisit this and post a new list. Thanks !!
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Lord tsunami
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about the shields: yes i prefer them too, but you do not lose any point in armour if you go spears, you just lose the parry save. both options are considered valid by most.
about the banner: yes, Ld9 with subborn and reroll and cold blooded is nice (99,74% success chance actually!) BUT only the TGs themselves are stubborn. the slann gives his Ld to all units within 12" and they are not stubborn. Saurus warriors are really expensive and thus you will most likely not have more ranks than your enemy (especially if you lose combat and have to take a break test). If you lose by 3 points that means you have Ld6 without the banner, and Ld7 with. thats a difference between 89,80% and 96,22%. it doesnt sound much but it does mean that you will run almost three times as often if you do not have the banner. the difference increases the more you lose by. The banner costs only 15 points, so it is basically free. Too good value for the points to pass up imo. The TG wont really need warbanner anyway. either they win alot and you wont have to worry about the enemy passing his Ld. Or you win a little, but then you are likely to face an opponent with at least as many ranks as you have, so he will be steadfast (remember, you have very few ranks), or you can lose combat, and since you are stubborn, you wont need that +1 CR anyway. It is a matter of taste, but i dare say the general consensus is to use the Ld banner.
The point with skink/krox units (SKrox) is not to win combat. they wont. it is to grind the enemy down while remaining steadfast. as long as you have at least 5 skinks left your enemy can not hurt the kroxigors. they will dish out the same amount of (decent) damage round after round while the droves of skinks that die (and they will) wont matter since you remain steadfats. Sick them on really nasty units like chaos warriors with GWs or something like that. you you use sauruses you will be hit on 3+, be wounded on 2+ and get no armour save. The exact same goes for skinks, but they cost less than half the points, so you can have twice as many of them. versus regular "T3, S3 infantry" the sauruses will do better, but against the really dangerous stuff (dont forget monsters and such) the SKrox will do better (or rather less poorly
)
about the banner: yes, Ld9 with subborn and reroll and cold blooded is nice (99,74% success chance actually!) BUT only the TGs themselves are stubborn. the slann gives his Ld to all units within 12" and they are not stubborn. Saurus warriors are really expensive and thus you will most likely not have more ranks than your enemy (especially if you lose combat and have to take a break test). If you lose by 3 points that means you have Ld6 without the banner, and Ld7 with. thats a difference between 89,80% and 96,22%. it doesnt sound much but it does mean that you will run almost three times as often if you do not have the banner. the difference increases the more you lose by. The banner costs only 15 points, so it is basically free. Too good value for the points to pass up imo. The TG wont really need warbanner anyway. either they win alot and you wont have to worry about the enemy passing his Ld. Or you win a little, but then you are likely to face an opponent with at least as many ranks as you have, so he will be steadfast (remember, you have very few ranks), or you can lose combat, and since you are stubborn, you wont need that +1 CR anyway. It is a matter of taste, but i dare say the general consensus is to use the Ld banner.
The point with skink/krox units (SKrox) is not to win combat. they wont. it is to grind the enemy down while remaining steadfast. as long as you have at least 5 skinks left your enemy can not hurt the kroxigors. they will dish out the same amount of (decent) damage round after round while the droves of skinks that die (and they will) wont matter since you remain steadfats. Sick them on really nasty units like chaos warriors with GWs or something like that. you you use sauruses you will be hit on 3+, be wounded on 2+ and get no armour save. The exact same goes for skinks, but they cost less than half the points, so you can have twice as many of them. versus regular "T3, S3 infantry" the sauruses will do better, but against the really dangerous stuff (dont forget monsters and such) the SKrox will do better (or rather less poorly
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My armies: Tomb Kings - Lizardmen - Dark Elves - Vampire Counts
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Furiouscado
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Lord Tsunami - Great stats on the Ld odds! I'm still confused how it translate to helping at all with the Standard of Discipline... If the Slann is carrying it, him and the TG are the ONLY unit that can benefit from it. "Models in a unit with the SoD have +1 LD, but cannot use General's IP"... so if the Slann is carrying it.. it's pointless to the Saurus. If THEY could carrying it.. it would be great, but they can't carry a magic banner.
Good point with the Krox/Skink.. I guess you have to just lob 25 skinks in the unit (7 ranks to start) so you'll slowly win via attrition. I'll look into it and see how it fits in the mix.
I'll also look into the salamanders, as I do love them so! I haven't played against WoC where steadfast can come into play and/or impact hits still allow strick backs.. I've always relied on them never having big units of stocky warriors that just won't go anywhere. My game plan is to have anvils that just outlast them all the meanwhile slann is casting 4-5 spells a turn (healing 3-4 wounds on stegadon, sallies, kroxs, etc with each successful cast) and making my units just impossible to kill.
If I take out the Chief/Ancient, I'd have to find at least one other reliable hammer. I should be able to lock combats, rely on the fact I won't break for at least one full turn, and then just slam into them with the stegadon to break them that turn.
I'll post a revised list tomorrow. Thanks again! great stuff!
Good point with the Krox/Skink.. I guess you have to just lob 25 skinks in the unit (7 ranks to start) so you'll slowly win via attrition. I'll look into it and see how it fits in the mix.
I'll also look into the salamanders, as I do love them so! I haven't played against WoC where steadfast can come into play and/or impact hits still allow strick backs.. I've always relied on them never having big units of stocky warriors that just won't go anywhere. My game plan is to have anvils that just outlast them all the meanwhile slann is casting 4-5 spells a turn (healing 3-4 wounds on stegadon, sallies, kroxs, etc with each successful cast) and making my units just impossible to kill.
If I take out the Chief/Ancient, I'd have to find at least one other reliable hammer. I should be able to lock combats, rely on the fact I won't break for at least one full turn, and then just slam into them with the stegadon to break them that turn.
I'll post a revised list tomorrow. Thanks again! great stuff!
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Kinslayer
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It's not that dissimilar to one of my lists, you can take the normal Skinks instead of the Chameleons and get a few more in if you prefer them. I think the Ancient Stegadon does better as an Engine of the Gods (15pts extra I think) than as a War-Spear Chief (50pts extra). Also you will need a bigger Saurus unit than 20, which is why I designed this list around a horde of 40... (Also, Salamanders are awesome, always take them)
395 - Slann BSB - focus of mysteries, focused rumination, cupped hands
355 - Skink Priest on Engine of the Gods
492 - 40 Saurus Warriors - spears, standard
348 - 20 Temple Guard - champion, standard
165 - 3 Kroxigor
96 - 8 Chameleon Skinks
150 - 2 Salamander Hunting Packs
Total - 2001
395 - Slann BSB - focus of mysteries, focused rumination, cupped hands
355 - Skink Priest on Engine of the Gods
492 - 40 Saurus Warriors - spears, standard
348 - 20 Temple Guard - champion, standard
165 - 3 Kroxigor
96 - 8 Chameleon Skinks
150 - 2 Salamander Hunting Packs
Total - 2001
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Lord tsunami
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about the Ld-banner (again 
)
the unit can not benefit from inspiring presence, BUT the slann is in the unit (so they get his Ld not through inspiring presence but through him having the highest Ld in the unit. and he can indeed still share his boosted Ld with other units. it has even been FAQed
)
the unit can not benefit from inspiring presence, BUT the slann is in the unit (so they get his Ld not through inspiring presence but through him having the highest Ld in the unit. and he can indeed still share his boosted Ld with other units. it has even been FAQed
Q: If the General is in a unit with the Standard of Discipline
will he gain +1 Leadership and then be able to pass it onto his unit
(because he is in it) as well as other units in range of the Inspiring
Presence special rule? (Reference)
A: Yes.
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My armies: Tomb Kings - Lizardmen - Dark Elves - Vampire Counts
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Furiouscado
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Lord Tsunami - Okay I was even misreading the FAQ'd errata.. Good idea, I'll toss it on!
Kinslayer - Thanks for weighing in! I really like the idea of a spear-saurus horde... If I'm reading the rulebook correctly.. they'd have potentially 50 attacks back if outfitted with spears (2 support ranks + spears). That just sounds fun with Flesh To Stone.
I LOVE cupped hands, especially in the new format. I didn't take it because I plan on using Lore of Life and casting 4-5 spells a turn, the first being Thone of Vines... However, it wouldn't be a BAD idea to have the cupped hands in the event I DON'T have Throne of Vines.. and then just throw 7 dice to cast Dwellers/Regrowth, banking on a miscast that I can then pass to his wizard... HA!
I plan on either removing or bolstering the saurus block, I need to check how many models I have.. otherwise, I'll use the skink, kroxigor unit.. which I could ALSO make a horde with 4 kroxigors across.. but they'd essentially lose the horde bonus of 2 ranks of support attacks because the kroxs take up 2 ranks.
I'll revise the list and re-post it soon
EDIT:
So Here's my list, round two.. MUCH like yours Kinslayer, with Tsunami's advice!
I DID notice that technically the horde isn't enough to cover core at 492, so I added a unit of skinks which should help a lot I think. I'm VERY comfortable with skink positioning for charge redirections and movement blocking.
Total: 1999
CHARACTERS
Slann (General)(BSB) 385
- Cupped Hands
- Standard of Discipline
- Focus of Mystery
- Focused Rumination
Skink Priest 380
- Engine of the Gods
- Level 1
- Dispel Scroll
CORE
Saurus Warriors x40 492
- spears
- Std
Skink Skirmishers x10 70
SPECIAL
Chameleon Skinks x6 72
Temple Guard x21 375
- Standard
- Huanchi's Blessed Totem
RARE
Salamander Hunting Pack x3 225
I really like the look of it and the synergy with the Slann kitted to just keep things alive with Lore of Life. I could remove a single TG (which would leave the 5th rank incomplete... not a big deal, remove the Huanchi's Blessed Totem (which I DO love and have won games with it in 7th), and bring the salamanders down to 2, which would free up 116 pts if anyone thinks I could spend that elsewhere more effectively (teradons? , another unit of skinks?).
Kinslayer - Thanks for weighing in! I really like the idea of a spear-saurus horde... If I'm reading the rulebook correctly.. they'd have potentially 50 attacks back if outfitted with spears (2 support ranks + spears). That just sounds fun with Flesh To Stone
.
I LOVE cupped hands, especially in the new format. I didn't take it because I plan on using Lore of Life and casting 4-5 spells a turn, the first being Thone of Vines... However, it wouldn't be a BAD idea to have the cupped hands in the event I DON'T have Throne of Vines.. and then just throw 7 dice to cast Dwellers/Regrowth, banking on a miscast that I can then pass to his wizard... HA!
I plan on either removing or bolstering the saurus block, I need to check how many models I have.. otherwise, I'll use the skink, kroxigor unit.. which I could ALSO make a horde with 4 kroxigors across.. but they'd essentially lose the horde bonus of 2 ranks of support attacks because the kroxs take up 2 ranks.
I'll revise the list and re-post it soon
EDIT:
So Here's my list, round two.. MUCH like yours Kinslayer, with Tsunami's advice!
I DID notice that technically the horde isn't enough to cover core at 492, so I added a unit of skinks which should help a lot I think. I'm VERY comfortable with skink positioning for charge redirections and movement blocking.
Total: 1999
CHARACTERS
Slann (General)(BSB) 385
- Cupped Hands
- Standard of Discipline
- Focus of Mystery
- Focused Rumination
Skink Priest 380
- Engine of the Gods
- Level 1
- Dispel Scroll
CORE
Saurus Warriors x40 492
- spears
- Std
Skink Skirmishers x10 70
SPECIAL
Chameleon Skinks x6 72
Temple Guard x21 375
- Standard
- Huanchi's Blessed Totem
RARE
Salamander Hunting Pack x3 225
I really like the look of it and the synergy with the Slann kitted to just keep things alive with Lore of Life. I could remove a single TG (which would leave the 5th rank incomplete... not a big deal, remove the Huanchi's Blessed Totem (which I DO love and have won games with it in 7th), and bring the salamanders down to 2, which would free up 116 pts if anyone thinks I could spend that elsewhere more effectively (teradons? , another unit of skinks?).