2000pt Lizardmen MSU

Thisisntnotjt · Post by **Thisisntnotjt** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:31 pm

Right, well, with 7th Ed. I've had to change some of my more unique LM tactics (refer to my 2000pt Southlands thread for much drama and tragedy), and as such I'd like to try something new. I don't really care for traditional Lizard armies. I'm not sure why; I guess they just feel clunky and awkward.

Anyways, as a result I decided to try out a MSU army. Let's take a look:

2000 pt Sacred Host of Sotek Army

Scar-Vet (142)
Sotek
Jaguar Charm
Bane Head
Light Armor and Shield

Scar-Vet (157)
Sotek
BSB
Warbanner
Light Armor

Skink Priest (160)
Sotek
L.2
Scroll
Stone

Ditto (160)

10 Saurus (180)
Sotek
Full Command

10 Saurus (180)
Sotek
FC

10 Saurus (180)
Sotek
FC

3 Kroxigor (194)
champ

3 Kroxigor (194)
champ

Stegadon (225)

Stegadon (225)

Total: 1997
PD: 6
DD: 4 and 2 scrolls
Models: 42

Some explanation: I didn't gear up my general in nice magical equipment because I'm counting on the Bear's Rage spell in the Lore of Beasts, which is the Lore of Beasts. I really wish I could have some more troops, though. This is the biggest thing I'm worried about with this army; I only have 42 models in the army!

Granted, a good chunk of them are hard stegadons and hitting Kroxigors, but still. Though 2 Stegadons is MUCH better than one. Any suggestions? Could it work?

Lord hajjij · Post by **Lord hajjij** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:53 pm

IMO, no.

I was under the impression that skink priests could only take heavens magic, however I could be wrong (some special rule for sotek?)

Yeah, I just don't see it working. Too few units and 3 of them are M4 while the other 4 are M6. Now if you want to do Lizzie MSU, I suggest a Carny, 2 stegs, 3-4units of kroxigor, 0-1 units of CoR, and skinks. Everything is fast as Hades and cheap skink units can be used as bait, and shoot down pesky support units.

my .02

Heptzul · Post by **Heptzul** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:22 pm

Skink priests are limited to only the Lore of the Heavans, so unlucky. Still, there're a few good spells to be found there, even if GW did tone LotH down massively a while ago.

As to the army: Yeah, fine. I don't believe I've seen a pink blob of goo pictured in my army book, let alone it costing 160 points - maybe it's just me (harharhar, Ditto from Pokémon). It could very easily work but I'm a bit dubious about the Soteks on the Saurus. They have M4 so there's not much hope they'll be getting the charge off that Sotek requires to work. Try the scaley skin upgrade one or something like that. I don't have my book with me at the moment so I can't give any other suggestions in that area because I can't really remember any of the other spawnings.
Can I point out that that's NOT a MSU army? MSU denotes many small units, something that your army happens to be lacking

I suggest a Carny, 2 stegs, 3-4units of kroxigor, 0-1 units of CoR, and skinks. Everything is fast as Hades and cheap skink units can be used as bait

So you suggest that he buys an entirely new army, do you? If you buy everything you've listed there, ie non upgraded totally, the fewest number of skinks possible etc, then you come out at 1725 points. If we take one unit of kroxigors away or so and put in the CoR, make the CoR unit a bit bigger, put in a few more units of skinks and make them all 12 units in each, give the general 100 points of magic items, give a standard bearer to the CoR I think we might be getting somewhere.

Yeah, I just don't see it working. Too few units [...]

I don't understand. He has 42 units in his army. In the army you suggested, there's not too much room for having many more than that.

Lord hajjij · Post by **Lord hajjij** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:11 pm

He has 42 MODELS in his army. He only has 7 UNITS. 3 of which are M4 saurus units.

Sure, his army CAN work. But it is far from being optimal

Columind · Post by **Columind** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:30 pm

LZ priests have acess to beasts, fire, light, metal, etc but this is if the list is a sacred host of (sotek, Tlazcotl, Tepok, etc...).
It's on the GW site:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/lizardmen/ ... awnings/1/

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:04 pm

MSU Saurii works very well. I played a game with a list in 6th and kicked the crap out of some one. Its really very hardcore. However I had 6 Units of Saurii, Quetzle legion it was. Played in 4x3s though, whch you can't really do any more.

Changes the way you have to play the army.

Basically my suggestion is to get more Saurii or drop the idea. 3 units of 10 is not enough to get anything done properly. You want at least 50 Saurii on the board, and 60 would be better. As it is now all the effectiveness is comming from the Chars and Monsters, with the saurii just wasting poits. Better to go either Saurii MSU proper or southlands-esque monster mash type thing.

Just my opinions though...

Ras

Thisisntnotjt · Post by **Thisisntnotjt** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:43 pm

hmm, maybe quetzl would be better. The extra armor would definitely counter act the M4 problem, plus I really enjoy the Lore of Death. Doom and Darkness has won me so many games with my dark elves.

Let's see, I could drop the Stegadons, which are typically kind of 'iffy', for a couple of more reliable Quetzl Saurus. The Kroxs will act as a flank hammer, and maybe with the extra 90 points I could add some krox champs or some skinks to screen one of the krox units. I'll whip up version 2.0.1 of this list.

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:04 pm

You need Sallies more then Krox IMHO.

Beastmaster kurlan · Post by **Beastmaster kurlan** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:11 pm

my advice, definately sallies, id take out a unit of krox for this. also i think ksinks would help the list out, and they arent veyr expensvie. a single scouting unit of 10 with blowpipes wil help you. so taking out a unit of krox and a steg would give you enough for sallies, a small skink unit, and more saurus. and also im not keen on sotek, my personal preference is tepok, but its your choice.

Thisisntnotjt · Post by **Thisisntnotjt** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:12 pm

Scar-Vet (150)
Quetzl
BSB
Warbanner

Skink Priest (130)
Quetzl
L.2
Scroll

Ditto (130)

11 Saurus (168)
Quetzl
Full Command

12 Saurus (180)
Quetzl
FC

12 Saurus (180)
Quetzl
FC

12 Saurus (180)
Quetzl
FC

12 Saurus (180)
Quetzl
FC

3 Kroxigor (194)
champ

3 Kroxigor (194)
champ

3 Kroxigor (194)
champ

Total: 2000
PD: 6
DD: 4 and 2 scrolls
Models: 72

Alright, this one is deceivingly different. I decided to get rid of the Scar general, as his leadership isn't going to make a difference, and I thought I'd focus on the troops. the 6x2 saurus formations are a product of extra point and a want for a wider front and a better chance for a rank bonus. I'm only a little worried about war machines, but I think for the most part this could take a gun line. Also, I think I have enough units to effectively sweep skirmishers. I think I'm going to play test this army tonight unless some of you have any other suggestions.

Beastmaster kurlan · Post by **Beastmaster kurlan** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:18 pm

now i like this one alot more, hmm yes a big improvement there, however i think on the priests, one should drop a stone for a scroll. simply put 4dd and 2 scrolls dont really do it for me, the third scroll i find really helps. but well done on getting more units of saurus on the board. but you stil dotn have sallies, id say drop a krox unit for them. next up, general, a skink priest... u crazy? take off the bsb and add a scar vet with soem nice hitty equiptment. thats my advice, hope i helped.

Thisisntnotjt · Post by **Thisisntnotjt** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:23 pm

yeah, the skink general is a little weird, but I figure the strength of this army is in it's mass, not it's quality. Besides, I'm a little scared to get rid of my BSB. I'd think he'd be essential. And... i already ditched the stones for points... :cry:

Lemme play with the points to get some sallies though. I do enjoy them!

Thisisntnotjt · Post by **Thisisntnotjt** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:29 pm

Let's see, here's version 2.1.1

Scar-Vet (150)
Quetzl
BSB
Warbanner

Skink Priest (130)
Quetzl
L.2
Scroll

Skink Priest (120)
Quetzl
Scroll
scroll

11 Saurus (168)
Quetzl
Full Command

12 Saurus (180)
Quetzl
FC

12 Saurus (180)
Quetzl
FC

12 Saurus (180)
Quetzl
FC

12 Saurus (180)
Quetzl
FC

3 Kroxigor (194)
champ

3 Kroxigor (194)
champ

3 Salamanders (195)

10 Skinks (65)
Quetzl

Ditto (65)

Total: 2001
PD: 6
DD: 4 and 3 scrolls
Models: 100

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:57 pm

Actually, I didn't use Quetzle. Too expensive, not really what you need ultimately. You don't need 3+ saves. Chotec was what I used. I think thats the one. The one that gives you a 3D6 Pursuit move. Or was it move through terrain? One of those two. You need a mark that gives tactical flexibility and not one that makes your troops harder - they are already hard.

Not overly keen on the new lists. FC is unecessary and a waste of points, so scrap those. The BSB is also not really needed, where as the JSOD is 1000000000000% necessary. The magic is too mediocre to be worth it IMHO. One caddy and Tepok on the Scar Vet will be more then enough defense. Re-jig the marks, either to move through woods or 3D6 pursuit. Both are superbly useful in such an army. Bang in 6 Sallies and some skinks and voilla. If you have any points left put some Kroxies and Terries in, but they really aren't critical.

Again just my thoughts. I really did like that MSU Saurii army. I might make another...

EDIT: Infact here is the list I would be using (2250 though)...

Old Blood (Soteck, tepok, Huanchi) (LA, E. Sh, Nike Shoes, Glyph Necklace, Burning Blade)
Priest (Huanchi, 2 Scrolls, lvl 1)

11 Saurii (Huanchi), C
11 Saurii (Huanchi), C
11 Saurii (Huanchi), C
11 Saurii (Huanchi), C
11 Saurii (Huanchi), C

10 Skinks (Huanchii, Javelins), Scout
10 Skinks (Huanchii, Javelins)
10 Skinks (Huanchii, Javelins)

3 Krox
3 Krox
3 Terradons

3 Sallies
3 Sallies

So yeah, thats how I would do it. With Basically the whole army moving through woods one can minimise the problems of having lots of units on the table and being hemmed in by terrain features. You can basically play where-ever you want on the table. Chotec was slightly limiting as it wasn't +1 pursuit dice as I thought, but a more constrained version.

Ras

Thisisntnotjt · Post by **Thisisntnotjt** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:09 pm

I see what you're going for. I guess I'm out of it from not playing standard LM for so long. I came up with a standard list I think I'm going to play tonight instead. After that, I'll come back to this.

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:18 pm

Its not about playing lizardmen the standard way. I have never owned or played with a lizardman army, bar the one MSU game I mentioned. Its about knowing where you wanna end up and working out the best route to get there for you. You got to ignore pre-concieved wisdom when trying new things out and give things a try. Saurii MSU is basically not done, so nothing is right or wrong. Try what you think will work and then re-evaluate. I just know from expereince that manuvering a big army with no static CR is a real pain in the arse. I also have a think for move through woods troops. Saurii are slow and expensive, so you have to find ways of making up for that problem.

Ras