Orcs and Goblins - first list now up

Prince of arnheim · Post by **Prince of arnheim** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:57 pm

Animosity is a biotch. There are ways around suffering from it when it does happen. I am in the sensory overloading process of trying to figure out the tricks.

Goblins won't attack Orcs so you can put them behind Orc units without fear of a rear charge. Night Goblins are good at protecting ORcs rears but you have to be carefull with the fanatics.

A Black Orc Warboss is really good to have, I am thinking that in a unit of Big Uns is the best place(someone for them to look up to). I don't know about the squabbling thing where I take wounds I don't really like hurting my own troops.Perhaps a chariot is the best place for the Warboss.

When is the best time to call a Waaaagh??!! I am thinking that the very first turn is just so you can dominate the battlefield right away!!! That is what the checkerboard strategy is all about. It is tough to perfect.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:01 pm

Prince of Arnheim wrote:Animosity is a biotch. There are ways around suffering from it when it does happen. I am in the sensory overloading process of trying to figure out the tricks.

Goblins won't attack Orcs so you can put them behind Orc units without fear of a rear charge.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this?

Prince of arnheim · Post by **Prince of arnheim** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:19 pm

Goblins won't charge Orcs when they fail their animosity roll.

ORCS
Goblins

If the goblins fail their animosity they will just sit there and not move.

Druchiishootlord · Post by **Druchiishootlord** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:28 pm

The first time is not the time to call for the Waaaagh! You want to use it to around turns 2-3 esp if you have the spell. You want to be able to charge and with calling for the Waaaagh! and getting your normal movement you should be able to cover about on average 10-12" in order to charge. You can add on the spell if you can get it off and add maybe another 3-4". So if you were to have an average roll of say a 2-4" on both Waaaagh! rolls then you'll have anywhere from 12-16" for your infantry. In the absolute best case if you have a unit of Boar Boyz with the movement banner and 6 all of your extra movements that's a 32" move.

Those are just a couple things I noticed with the most successful O&G players. So with being able to cover that much distance in one turn I would say NEVER call for the Waaaagh! first turn as that puts you into a better position to be charged especially if you get unlucky somewhere. Call for it, and try to cast it on the 2nd or 3rd turns.

One of the most potent combos I've seen is a unit of 7 Savage Orc Boar Boyz Big'uns with FC and the movement banner joined by a black orc BSB with Bigged's Kickin' Boots and Martog's Best Basha. That unit was used in a 2250 list but it would be just as effective in a 2K list I'm sure. Most espcially if you have it supported by some fast cav units to set up charges.

Ant · Post by **Ant** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:49 pm

Prince of Arnheim wrote:If the goblins fail their animosity they will just sit there and not move.

So will orcs. Please READ THE BOOK before posting something about rules, or at least say you aren't 100% sure of it. I find this doubly annoying since you recently insulted, quite unfairly, someone who got something wrong in much the same way as you just did.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:22 pm

Prince of Arnheim wrote:Goblins won't charge Orcs when they fail their animosity roll.

ORCS
Goblins

If the goblins fail their animosity they will just sit there and not move.

No, why would they charge? I still fail to see your point. You want to use Goblins as protection for the orcs, from the rear... but whre dos animosity fit in? Why would goblins charge the orcs?

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:23 pm

Wow! Thanks for all the great replies. It's going to be a while before I actually get a game in however as I need to buy lots of figures.

Hopefully, with a birthday due next month I won't have to buy them all!!

Ant: I hear what you say about the hoppers but we'll see with play testing. You know how canny I can be after all...

Prince of arnheim · Post by **Prince of arnheim** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:01 am

I can see this thread being closed soon.

Prince of Arnheim said:
If the goblins fail their animosity they will just sit there and not move.

So will orcs. Please READ THE BOOK before posting something about rules, or at least say you aren't 100% sure of it. I find this doubly annoying since you recently insulted, quite unfairly, someone who got something wrong in much the same way as you just did.

I fail to see how I said anything wrong. IF Goblins fear their animosity test and they have orcs in their charge arc they will not charge the orcs. If ORcs have goblins in their charge arc and they fail animosity they will charge the goblins or other orcs even.

Rangeltoft · Post by **Rangeltoft** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:18 am

Prince of Arnheim, the rules for animosity has changed with the new book, no more charing the closest unit on a failed animosity test

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:05 am

Ant: calm down, take that kind of stuff elsewhere

POA: you made an error, that's fine. Rangletoft has explained for us all what that was. That's also fine.

Consequently that's the end of that little aversion! Back on topic now please.

I have another general question then. Are there any limitations (apart from those contained in the 7th ed rule book of course) as to what characters can join what units? Leave fluff reasons out of your answers but, for example, can a NG Shaman join a unit of Orcs etc or an Orc Shaman join a unit of NGs etc?

I can't seem to see anything in the book which says either way.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:21 am

AFAIK, Gobbos chars can join orc units fine, though fluff doesnt reallt fit there. You can also have a night goblin being the general in an army made purely of orcs, which doesnt make sense either

Prince of arnheim · Post by **Prince of arnheim** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:46 pm

The variety is endless. AS you can see i've already gone insane from calculating the possibilities. I apologise for any wrong sayings I may have uttered.

I see that alot of players take units of 5 Wolf Riders and Spider Riders. Does anyone else think this is a big mistake? I do. It is such a weak link in the checkerboard chain. Any sort of weak shooting can cause these small units to panic. Now ORcs are immune to that, but still, I like big units of Spiders and Wolves as they can outnumber better.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:32 pm

Well, I use the spiders only to make flank charges, and the smaller unitsize it all I need, saving my points for other stuff. True, they are vulnerable, but I am yet to play someone with my O & G that considder the vast advantage panic is(I'm so far only playing people who are starting their first army, with my O & G). Also, the spiderriders are always a surprise to opponent, that forget how they can cross difficult terrain

But you are right, POA, a wise opponent will gun those spiderriders down, and in an army thats goblin heavy as mine, that can be a disaster...

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:45 pm

If the Spider Riders got rank bonus...

My plan is to use mine in 5s and possibly with banners. I've been chatting with the Dragon Slayers today about the list and I'll try and post an initial draft list up tomorrow. Seems like quite a few favour the Savage Orc/Wyvern or Savage Orc/Chariot combo as well as the suicide bomber Goblin so I'm going to rethink things slightly. I like Ant's idea about casters in chariots too.

Rasputinii · Post by **Rasputinii** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:27 pm

Dark Alliance wrote: Seems like quite a few favour the Savage Orc/Wyvern or Savage Orc/Chariot combo as well as the suicide bomber Goblin

Really? Wow! I don't feel like such a mad little fool now.
Ha ha.

As for character you can mix and match them as you like. Although I find those tiny goblin bases really annoying to rank up with Orc units. I highly recormend sticking your little 20mm bases on top of 25s (even if just with tack of blue), to make life easy. Its a right nightmare otherwise.

I really look forward to seeing the list mon a mi. The only Orc lists I have seen are those by the less then apt of Da Warpath. Be nice to see what some one able like yourself would do.

'ta

Ras

Bloodtemplar · Post by **Bloodtemplar** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:48 pm

On the issue of Trolls, I really like the way you can now take a unit of a single Troll as a diverter. It's very flexible and costs next to nothing without any silly upgrades.

Here's a list I drafted out of the ideas on this thread. It's mainly just meant to be fun to play but I guess it could pack some punch. When the new plastic Black Orcs come out I will try this one out as I already have pretty much everything else needed.

2250 Pts - Orcs & Goblins Roster

1 Savage Orc Warboss
General; Size Matters - Orcs; Choppa; Shield; Warpaint; Frenzy
1 Orc Boar Chariot
Chariot; Scythed Wheels
2 Boar
1 Orc Crew
Size Matters - Orcs; Choppa; Spear
1 Ulags Akk'rit Axe
1 Effigy of Mork
1 Bigged's Kickin' Boots

1 Night Goblin Big Boss
Size Matters - Goblins; Hand Weapon; Light Armor; Shield; Fear Elves; Hate Dwarves
1 Great Squig
Hate Dwarves
1 Wollopa's One Hit Wunda
1 Brimstone Bauble

1 Goblin Shaman
Size Matters - Goblins; Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Fear Elves
1 Goblin Wolf Chariot
Chariot; Scythed Wheels
2 Goblin Crew
Size Matters - Goblins; Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Spear; Fear Elves
2 Wolf
1 Staff of Sneaky Stealin'

1 Goblin Shaman
Size Matters - Goblins; Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Fear Elves
1 Goblin Wolf Chariot
Chariot; Scythed Wheels
2 Goblin Crew
Size Matters - Goblins; Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Spear; Fear Elves
2 Wolf
1 Dispel Scroll

1 Goblin Wolf Chariot
Chariot; Scythed Wheels
3 Goblin Crew
Size Matters - Goblins; Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Spear; Fear Elves
2 Wolf

1 Goblin Wolf Chariot
Chariot; Scythed Wheels
3 Goblin Crew
Size Matters - Goblins; Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Spear; Fear Elves
2 Wolf

29 Orc Boyz
Size Matters - Orcs; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Choppa; Light Armor; Shield; Animosity
1 Orc Boss
Choppa; Light Armor; Shield

29 Orc Boys
Size Matters - Orcs; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Choppa; Extra Hand Weapon; Light Armor; Animosity
1 Orc Boss
Choppa; Extra Hand Weapon; Light Armor

29 Black Orcs
Size Matters - Black Orcs; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Armed to da Teef; Choppa; Heavy Armor
1 Black Orc Boss
Choppa; Heavy Armor; Armed to da Teef
1 Gork's Waaagh! Banner

8 Night Goblin Squig Hoppers
Hand Weapon; Hate Dwarves; Immune to Psychology; Skirmishers

5 Forest Goblin Spider Riders
Size Matters - Goblins; Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield; Animosity; Fast Cavalry; Fear Elves
5 Giant Spider
Poisoned Attacks

1 Trolls
Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Regenerate; Stupid

1 Giant
Causes Terror; Ignore Greenskin Panic; Large Target; Stubborn

Total Roster Cost: 2250

Prince of arnheim · Post by **Prince of arnheim** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Blood Templar that OaG list is freakin amazing!!!

You have taken the most effecient choice of each unit in the armylist and put it together. Lot's will have trouble with that one.

I am tending to go with a small and more elite style of army, but I am seriously rethinking it now that i've seen your list here.

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:33 pm

Not quite what I was thinking but it has raised some interesting further thoughts for me. The single Troll doesn't appeal at first thought but I'll think it through more as I look at my own list later today.

I like the big infantry blocks, that does fit with my plans as I want to have lots of figures on the table. I'm definitey NOT going down the route of lots of points in characters...

It's great to see so much thought and effort being put into helping me with this new venture. Here's to much more healthy discussion.

Happy Easter Egg eating!

Prince of arnheim · Post by **Prince of arnheim** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:14 pm

I just thought I would post the list that i've been working on lately. I hav been going insane trying out all the configurations. Trying to find the most effecient setups. I think this one is pretty good.

Black Orc Warboss
-Heavy Armour and Shield
-Effigy of Mork

Orc BSB
-Choppa and Light Armour
-Amulet of Protectyness

Orc Shaman
-Level 2
-Boar
-Nibbla's Itty Ring

Night Goblin Shaman
-Level 2
-Magic Mushrooms

35 Night Goblins
-Full Command
-3 Fanatics and Netters

20 Orc Ladz
-Full Command
-Shields

20 Orc Big Unz
-Full Command
-Extra Hand Weapons and Shields

9 Spider Riders
-Full Command
-Bows,Spear, And Shields

-15 Black Orcs
-Full Command
-Gork's Waaagh Banner

5 Big Un Boar Boyz
-Full Command
-Nogg's Banner of Butchery

1 Boar Chariot

7 Menghil Manhide Manflayers

1 Troll

2250 Points
120 Models
6 PD
4 DD

Bloodtemplar · Post by **Bloodtemplar** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:28 pm

Dark Alliance wrote:Not quite what I was thinking but it has raised some interesting further thoughts for me. The single Troll doesn't appeal at first thought but I'll think it through more as I look at my own list later today.

I wouldn't keep the single Troll as any kind of a primary element while building the list, it really depends on your other Rare selections. I tested the single troll against Empire, leaving out Giant in fear of cannons and opting for Doom Diver Catapult against the Knights and Greatswords I knew I was going to face. Against a less shooty army with blocks of expensive units (ie non-horde, non-skirmish), I would still go for Giant - Doom Diver combination. I just find myself rather spending the points needed for a unit of Trolls to rank-and-file Orcs but still I'm rather often left with an extra 40 pts when all my blocks number 30.

Running a single Troll is also just fun.

Dark Alliance wrote:I like the big infantry blocks, that does fit with my plans as I want to have lots of figures on the table. I'm definitey NOT going down the route of lots of points in characters...

I'm probably swapping one of the basic Orc units for a unit of Night Goblins with Fanatics and Nets. I still need a few more points so I can make it big enough though and there's nothing I'd like to drop from the list. Need to play around with the army builder a bit more...

Dark Alliance wrote:It's great to see so much thought and effort being put into helping me with this new venture.

Nah, I'm just gathering my own thoughts and taking part to the conversation on totally selfish basis. I might be a druchii on vacation but I'm still a druchii

Prince of arnheim · Post by **Prince of arnheim** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:38 pm

I wonder why so many people shun nets. They can make NG's so much more able to take a charge. Combined with Fanatics they can be deadly.

Another thing i'm wondering about. How many of you find that most of the magic items are a waste of points. Our characters don't really need magic weapons as choppas are a darn good deal. Most of the magic swords work under special circumstances and only last for the turn you charge anyways.

Gnosis · Post by **Gnosis** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:58 pm

Their magic items are a reflection of themselves: great when they work, frustrating when they don't. Frankly I love taking some of the more random items. It just takes a sense of humour, I guess.

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:08 pm

Also a Druchii on holiday too!!!

About netters: very much in favour myself, I can't see why not really. Plus the obligatory fanatics of course.

I'm toying with the idea of running the NGs in a single line across either the front of the army or along one flank. The idea being to maximise the fanatic threat. I've even considered running 2 units of NGs each with 3 F's. The idea being to have the potential of unleashing 6 F's in a fairly compact area if necessary. Particularly against Bretts. I kinda saw Black Orcs in the centre, flanked by 2 units of NGs and again by 2 units of Orcs. Any thoughts?

Going off to write up a list of my own now btw...

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:10 pm

Prince of Arnheim wrote:7 Menghil Manhide Manflayers

Sorry, but this is just wrong :evil:

Bloodtemplar · Post by **Bloodtemplar** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:23 pm

Prince of Arnheim wrote:Most of the magic swords work under special circumstances and only last for the turn you charge anyways.

That's why I keep advertising Ulag's Akrit Axe. It retains the choppa's Str bonus on the charge but the re-rolls work all the time.

Dark Alliance wrote:About netters: very much in favour myself, I can't see why not really. Plus the obligatory fanatics of course.

Nets are interesting since they're equipment with a fixed price - quite rare in Warhammer. Naturally nets are then more cost effective the bigger the unit is.

Dark Alliance wrote:I'm toying with the idea of running the NGs in a single line across either the front of the army

Be careful however. It only takes one turn of bad luck and frustration on your part and you'll quickly turn that line to the much hated fanatic slingshot, gathering the hate of all Warhammer players everywhere.