2250 archons horde list for upcoming tournies

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Beastmaster kurlan
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2250 archons horde list for upcoming tournies

Post by Beastmaster kurlan »

hi this is the army list i hope to build up for many tournaments this year. all comments are gretaly appreciated.

Lord of nurgle, gaze of the gods, armour of damnation, rending sword, barded steed, shield @ 387 points

Level 1 sorcerer with 2 scrolls @ 135 points

Battle standard bearer of nurgle, steed, book of secrets @ 201 points

20 warriors of nurgle, shields, full command @ 350 points

20 warriors of nurgle, shields, full command @ 350 points

25 marauders, shields, light armour, full command @ 175 points

25 marauders, shields, light armour, full command @ 175 points

5 warhounds @ 30 points

5 warhounds @ 30 points

5 marauder horsemen, shields, flails @ 85 points

5 marauder horsemen, shields, flails @ 85 points

8 flayerkin with wallcreeper @ 126 points

Spawn of chaos @ 60 points

Spawn of chaos @ 60 points

Total points = 2249
Models = 123
Casting pool = 4 dice
Dispel pool = 4 dice and 2 scrolls
Deployments = 11 + scouts
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two short swords, dagger, 4 throwing knives, 500 gold coins, unarmed combat skill

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Post by The_everchosen »

I wouldn't bother with the book of secrets - stick with a scroll caddy. I'm not a big fan of flayerkin - they die very easily and are not that good that I'd risk free VP to my opponent.

I think your lord needs a unit to lead, marauder horsemen aren't good enough as a bodyguard and he will make them slower - negating their usefulness as FC. As such I'd add in a unit of (chosen?) knights.

Big blocks of warriors are not great. They are quite susceptible to panic and although you trying to make the most out of the MoN, (IMO) it is the weakest mark and largely useless on such an exopensive unit - 1 bad combat and your opponent gets 450 VP per unit.

Marauders on the other hand - I'm a big fan, as they sewrve the same purpose of the warriors for (exactly) half the cost. They can add ranks, but you need hard-hitters.

I'd go for knights, and a chariot(s), and you also need some warmachine hunting but nothing springs to mind in Archaon's horde - its a very restrictive list. The free commands look great, but I think paying the extra 100 pts for them and then buying a unit of screamers/furies would earn more points back than you lost.

A hellcannon is also superb. Although it can rampage, a cheap unit of WH can keep it busy (and your lines safe!). I can't remember off hand, but i'm pretty sure the MoN upgrade for the spawns is good!

Hope that helps
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Post by Rasputinii »

Kurlan, mon a mi.
I like to think I know you tome extent. Have a feel for what lists you like and so on. I also like to think you know about how to play.

You CAN'T just plonk that list down and not explain yourself. I'm holding back on the torrent of negativity thats building up from seeing the list. I'm hoping you have some interesting reasons and cunning plans that you are going to explain to me. 'cos if you are really just going to play with four blocks of chaos infantry questions have to be asked about your state of mind.

I demand and explanation :P
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Post by Beastmaster kurlan »

Well ras an explanation you shall get. Now im not sure about tanelorn but wps tournaments have a new rules pack. One that highly favours infantry, very highly. Now my basic plan is to use the units in a solid wall, warriors in middle marauders on each flank. Fast cav and warhounds redirect units. There are two capture scenarios, for these I advance solidly and take it. I also think it will be fun. Now I am not sure if it is a good list, the only chaos infantry list ive used recently is a tzeentch dragon with infantry. Now that turned out extremely well, but yes if you have negative thoughts on this list please share them, as long as they are constructive ill be very grateful.
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Kurlan the violent (trainee of khaine)

WS: 3
S:5
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D:5
I:2

two short swords, dagger, 4 throwing knives, 500 gold coins, unarmed combat skill

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Post by Rasputinii »

Kurlan: Do you have linkies to the new rule pack. I should like to see, that, as my comment are based soley on the standard pitched battle type game.

The primary "problem" with this list is that Chao Warriors are crap. They are hugely expensive and very slow. Okay they are hard, but with LD8 (9 with the lord) a simple flank charge will almost always see the unit off, and the same goes for the marauders. So you essentially put down a line of expensive trroops that can be rolled by a single flanking unit. Funnily enough a lucky unit of Dark Riders with a anner can do it if they can kill a model or two on the charge, done it before against khorne warriors.

Now with something like a Dwarf Warrior you aren't in such a bad position, because you can force the enemy to fight your front. But with a chaos army, and a chaos army like that you offer no reason to engage in the front. You can't get a charge off apart from with dogs, horsemen and the Lord and you don't even force the enemy to come to you, or a way of thining their ranks in advance. If the enemy has even a small bit of shooting and magic they will just sit back force you to plod accross the board for three turns then envelop and destroy you. You may have alot of models, but that doesn't matter. None of your periferals will see combat which leaves your huge investment in troops sitting very vulnerable.

I admire the idea of doing chaos infantry. But they have some of the worst infantry in the game unless you go beasts or marauder heavy. That said I have been thinking about Chaos Warriors and such. But really big Units. I was looking into the idea of a unit of 30 or so, maybe chosen, with a banner fo the Gods floating around. So they are stubborn. Then play them in a 15x2 line on one flank, whilst you have more hitty stuff on the other side that sweeps forward. Like a big hunny trap type thing. Or maybe Khorne Chosen with Halberds, to make it more hitty.

Basically what I am saying is that Chaos warriors are just to slow and expensive to be played in a conventional block format. If you want to pursue the idea of warriors I think you need to think completely out of the box and unconventionally, or they will just be rolled. Or if you do want to kee the format perhaps consider going down to one unit with the Lord and investing the other points in counter punch and faster threats. More flayerkin, knight units and chariots. You might also onsider swapping the mark to Khorne to up the killability of your warriors. Harder to use, but I have often thought with a bit of skill and unorthodox thinking a khorne infantry army could work really well. Or perhaps consider deamons. Deamonettes aint half bad. Infact they are rather good in 15s and 18s with their M5 and pair of S4 attacks. Kel plays with a Tzeench army. From the HOC book. Greater Deamon and Exalted ona disk. Then three units of Horrors, 9-12 flamers, 25 Marauders and a few screamers. Its very infantry heavy, and its awsome. Really really awsome...

I know there isn't much constructive in that post, but to be honest I think its a loosing idea that needs a radical rethink.

Ras
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Post by Beastmaster kurlan »

ras i much appreciate your input. some great suggestions there. it was mainly i wanted to see about chaos warriors because i could get aload cheap. hmm i did think of tzeentch daemons hoc but im not sure if i could buy it all in tiem for tournaments. hmm ok what is your thoughts on a tzeentch dragonlord leading infantry? oh also my comp doesnt seem to want to let me link , its on the players society website, then go to rules sets and click core rules, its there.
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Kurlan the violent (trainee of khaine)

WS: 3
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I:2

two short swords, dagger, 4 throwing knives, 500 gold coins, unarmed combat skill

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Post by Beastmaster kurlan »

ok im thinking of merely changing to slaanesh marks, if i do this and give slaanesh to the spawns i have 76 points left, is this a good move?
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Kurlan the violent (trainee of khaine)

WS: 3
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I:2

two short swords, dagger, 4 throwing knives, 500 gold coins, unarmed combat skill

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Post by Ant »

I'll just echo every single one of Ras's points. An all infantry chaos mortal army simply doesn't work. Even if you did have a huge magic phase and a hellcannon you'd still have a very big uphill struggle on your hands. Without drastic changes to get a bit of speed and ways of protecting and delivering a couple of infantry units and dealing some damage I'll be very much surprised if you win a single game against anybody who has any idea how to play.
Ash010110 wrote: I completely agree with Ant (Reynolds, I presume?).

(Please note, I am NOT Anthony Reynolds)
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Post by Beastmaster kurlan »

hmm you think that strongly? well hmm its just that well chaos infantry isnt really that slow, its average movement. and for the wps scenarios infantry really do well. hmm so you think id be better off with a dragon? i mean if i did tzeentch dragon should i go infantry?
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Kurlan the violent (trainee of khaine)

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two short swords, dagger, 4 throwing knives, 500 gold coins, unarmed combat skill

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Post by Ant »

Chaos infantry is average movement for infantry yes. However, the chaos army doesn't have things to complement it like other armies such as skaven, dwarfs, empire and orcs do. There is no way of dealing with enemy shooters quickly, no way of making the enemy come to you and (most importantly) no easy way of protecting your flanks or holding a flank charge. A (very) heavy magic phase, some flyers and light cav units can just about make it almost viable but it will never be competitive without putting in plenty of fast stuff and that means cav and chariots.

Oh, and I've read the wps rulespack now too. It looks to me that infantry are improved a bit in ONE scenario which I imagine will be used only ONCE in a tourney (twice if you are lucky). The advantages infantry get in this scenario will help a bit but IMO you will still struggle bigtime to win a game even if you had these advantages for every game.
Ash010110 wrote: I completely agree with Ant (Reynolds, I presume?).

(Please note, I am NOT Anthony Reynolds)
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Beastmaster kurlan
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Post by Beastmaster kurlan »

well i will have 2 test games on tuesday i will explain the results and what worked well etc.
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Kurlan the violent (trainee of khaine)

WS: 3
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T:4
D:5
I:2

two short swords, dagger, 4 throwing knives, 500 gold coins, unarmed combat skill

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Post by Beastmaster kurlan »

ok had my two games today, first game was against druchii i got a minor victory, second game was against von carstein vampires, i got massacred. i am strongly considering getting a tzeentch dragon, what do other people think?
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Kurlan the violent (trainee of khaine)

WS: 3
S:5
T:4
D:5
I:2

two short swords, dagger, 4 throwing knives, 500 gold coins, unarmed combat skill

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