Warhammer and Elitism

[Hateshighelves]

Depends. I hate "kiddies" and by that I mean people who cannot speak in a normal level but insists on speaking or near screaming with their high pitched voices. Particularly people who cannot remain calm in general... Sure, I like abit of a laugh, it´s not that just try to keep it down.

Check here to see how I like to handle the "kiddies"

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#611933

[Kefka]

I actually have a bit of fun with the younger ones, narration of whats going on can be fun for both players, it makes taking a fall for the new kid exciting, and brings out the fun that's intended in the game.
Basically I'm just saying that I don't understand as to why elitists are so stuff. I can understand the loud, annoying players, but their not always the new kiddies, I find the most annoying/obnoxious players are the veterans (cause they think their so great)

[Scareypete]

I never take a fall for a new player. I wouldn't want someone to do that for me either. I have kicked the living crap out of kids in their first fanstasy games, but explained every move and moment to them afterwards.

[Gnosis]

Since a couple of months I'm employed as a high school teacher. I don't have any problems with young teenagers, as they're precisely the same age as my pupils. I do have problems with older 'kids' (mainly my age or a couple of years younger (18-22)) who can no longer remember what they were like just a handful of years in the past.

[Demonclown]

HatesHighElves......did you have a happy childhood?

[Gnosis]

HatesHighElves......did you have a happy childhood?

He's taking the piss, it's plain to see

[Rising son]

Damnation has a point that most players would do well to remember. We were all 12 at one stage (excepting those 11 and under on this board ).

I'm sure a fair percentage of us may have even been regarded as retards/annoying noobs etc too (I however, was an unusally mature, calm, rational 12 year old, with a sound command of the Game from the word go IIRC) in our time.

As many members have said above, it helps the hobby we all love so much to help out the new guys once in a while. Just grin and bare it for a couple of hours, be helpful, give thoughtful, constructive criticism and try not to wince with every high octave squeal of joy.

As an aside, I've actually experienced being a born-again Adult noob. I had to take a break from gaming for a while when I moved to Japan in 1998 but after a while I relapsed and starting modelling and painting again just for fun. After a while I had a new Druchii army ready to go and no-one to play. Then I stumbled upon a club on the internet and made my mind up to check it out. So I rock up to meet my English speaking contact, only to find that he's AWOL. However, the local players really went out of their way to make me welcome and in a mix of Japanese and English I blundered through my first game of 6th edition WFB, and had a blast doing it. Since then, I've become a regular member, playing as often as I can. My gaming Japanese has also improved too.

[Saint of m]

Currently can't fdind anyone to play ( I'm either in college when the fantasy guys come ovver, or it's 40k)

When I do have problems it's usualy do to a rule nazi where every thing has to bii perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Other thent THAT, I can't really remember any problems like that. WHile I have friends who quite several of the games they played (one in particular was all Fantasy chaos in warhammer, magic the gathering, and a couple others) because he had to deal with so many people who forget it's just a game. I WILL say, though, that I remember seeing assholes like this.

The only thing I could do to lighten the mood was when the guy he was playing with yelled it's only a game, I say. "A Game. No, THIS IS WARHAMMER!"

Try saying that with a strait face.

[Slerac fellblade]

you know the topic i thought this was gonna be about our hatred of the flat stackers...god I hate them so.

But honestly I think the real problem is you have people who can play the game and people who can only play the game against like people. Like i for one do not mind playing against the youngins (I many times give them strategy tips that in their next game against an older more expirienced player allows the young blood to kick ass.) Because I see no problem in losing and I always try to explain to any opponent where they went wrong respectfully and how to improve their list.

I think the people who can only play against their own age are the ones who make those youngins feel like shiz. Now for the fact that the kids are all noisy and exuberant during games. Personally I think thats a good thing. to me it says the system hasn't murdered their imaginations yet.

Now damnation is a teacher...I am afraid for the young minds he can mold.

[Black corsair]

We have alot of Warhammer players at the gaming store I work in. Most of them are good about playing new people, and even set up times that are good for newbies to come down and learn.

There is a guy who bought the new CSM spearhead and didn't even get to play it until recently. We have another guy who had never played Warhammer before, and after watching a game bought the new O&G spearhead. If someone is watching and they want to possibly play, we try to explain what we are doing to them.

But I do understand the elitist crap. I've seen it at other places and it annoys me. Luckily no one around here does any of that.

[Demonclown]

so am i

[Belial]

Well, personally, my little gaming group avoids the local store, since the people there are, well... At lot of them are not very friendly to outsiders. It doesn't matter whether a newcomer is actually good at the game; they consider everyone inferior to themselves and their little clique. And a lot of them are elitists. Or too ocused at the game; we enjoy being able to alk to each other while we play, or have a look at how it's going at the next table. Not everyone at the store is like that, but enough that we play at our own place. The extra upside to this is that we avoid "the kiddies", as Danceman calls them.

That we play at our own place doesn't mean we keep to ourselves, though. Anyone is welcome, as long as we know in advance(and they wouldn't know where to find us anywhere, if they didn't ask first )

[Loki]

Some people at the local store probably see me as an elitist, because I refuse to play anyone who isn't in my small group of friends. The real reason I don't play anyone else is because we make up some of our own rules to fix the ones we don't like and I don't actually know all the real rules, just our made up ones.

[Azure]

Haha loki, We do that sometimes. Well for sieges at least!

-Rex

[Ulric darksoul]

As i'm one of the very first that played warhammer in Chile, i had to tought a lot of lads into the game... but escentially, i did the "fun moves" or extraordinarily foolish moves you can expect to do as a newbie so the new guy can understand why that kind of moove is awefull.

I remember a couple of games against two brothers, when the AB of druchii just came out, that the guys, HE and DE, didn't fileded any wizards. In Chile, we play alot of magic armies, so this two were crippled 'cause of that. Had to teach them about the magic phase, and the utility of a scroll caddie if they didn't want to use sorcerers.

In the gaming store now, whenever there is a newbie, there is a demo for him, and he's sent to watch a couple of games, and then, he's challenged. So, his presented to the game, presented to the players, and then actually he can command a force. That's the way we do it in here with the newbies.

I understand you azure, how shocking it is that new guys are rejected by the other players... although i cannot personally teach a bunch of 9-12 years old groups of kids... i rather make them play against each other and referee them.

[Azure]

Completely agree Ulric

What pissed me off the most was that we are possibly inviting a new member to our gaming group which is sorely in need and they get turned away because they are new. Ridiculous in my opinion and the store owner was rather peeved as well because he lets us play htere!

-REx

[Danceman]

Let me rephrase my statement. I cannot stand kiddies which does not retain a normal level of speech even after being asked to keep it down. This apply to anyone everywhere where they are other people around IMO. It is a simple matter of respect.

-Cheers

[Scareypete]

currently We just formed our official gaming club out of a losse association of old friends and regulars at the local gamming store... and the bugger is that to hit the GW target 30 members... we are lookign at some of the other regulars as prospective members.

Now we are working on a set of rules to put in place to boot out people who may be thieves or cry babies or in some otherway disruptive and unpleasant to game with.

[Livefromnaggaroth]

If there's one thing working with children has taught me it's never to underestimate them. What they lack in experience they more than make up for in drive and enthusiasm. When my brother and I (1 and 12 or something at that time) started playing warhammer I knew nothing about it and just messed around. After a year we knew the rulebook, magic book, magic items and each other's army book by heart.

Of course the downside for them is they're distracted by candy.

[Azure]

But hell, so am I!

I think kids need to read through the rulebook and then come get a game in. When they spend the money creating a 1k army and having the rulebook anbd a list ready, it seems silly that no one will play them

-Rex

[Mostlyharmless]

I don't mind playing against new players. Sometimes, that's the only game you can get. I went to the Chicago Battle Bunker on my way back to Seattle from Detroit, and I could only get a game against this newbie ogre player. I trounced him, and wasn't very satisfied with the win. There were alot of veteran players there, too. I was really disappointed that many of them were not willing to give a guy from out of town a decent game. See, it isn't just elitism against new players. It's elitism against strangers. I was clearly a veteran player. My models were all painted and such. It wasn't like I was a kid who had just started. I was there to give as good as I got, but unfortunately they weren't biting.

Now, I have a policy for playing new players. I give them a good game, and I don't hold back. They don't learn anything if I hold back. If they win, I congratulate them on a game well played. If I win, I shake their hand, wishing them luck in their next game. In both cases, I sit down with said player and we talk about the game, what he/she did wrong, what I did wrong, where the respective lists can be improved, and so on. We both end up better for it.

[King coombs #1]

I am new to fantasy. Im not denying it. A few people havent wanted to game with me because im new. It doesnt really bother me. When i am playing 40k i prefer not to battle against new players. I love teaching them how to play the game, but i hate battling because no matter now much i try and loose, i win. It makes me feel bad. I bet it makes the person im playing against feel bad to.

But dont get me wrong, i love helping kids. With painting and battling. I often stand next to the new player and give him advice and tips.

Its sad that that happens though.

[Rork]

Playing newbies is difficult. I don't think that it's right to be hostile towards new players - we've all been there. But some players are better suited to playing new guys than others.

The last new-ish guy (he'd been playing less than a year at the local GW) I played I ended up crushing. Partly because his army selection was awful (this was 40k), and partly because I really know what I'm doing. Even when I tried to be fair and let him use my army and I took his dubious marine army, I still beat him into the ground.

I think it helps to have a few people who are still fresh to the game around at a club, so at least that way players can learn from each other. Like coombs says, it's a teeny bit embarrassing when you wipe the floor with someone without even trying.

[Master of arneim]

Ahahahahahaha
All of you make me laugh so loud!!!!!
I'm not joking you! But all this let me think about what happens here in italy... Probably here is the contrar thing! Usually are newbies that do not want to play with experienced people.
Now let me explain... in my country usually happens that our best people (in gaming of course) are always "supported" by heavy armies (ex skaven bretonnian, now He and so on) and use to play lists that are not really friendly (and we consider friendly a list were you can see only 1 steam tank or only 2 skaven engeneer with a grey seer on bell or bretonnians army were there are few lances, 4/5, and maybe on foot troops and only one peggy unit). Now as you can think, sometimes happens that a new player that is going to get a match encounter these "experienced people" and the result is obvious (2500-0). So it's quite sure that this guy is not going to play any more vs these veterans because they don't feel the spirit of the game.
Now, I'm in a community (or clan as you call it or association) that luckily has got many different players and many of them are not so frenzied by cheesy lists and tourney view but enjoy more the estetic side of this hobby (yes, that's an hobby!!!), so you can do "easy" match vs them and get the pleasure of these games. So we're able to make our newbies avoid those experienced and "extreme" people, combining matches vs more "slow" players.
The good sides are that we're only happy to see new players coming, downsides are that many young kids are taken by the dark side of the double steam tank and so lose their innocence veeeery soon.
The most difficult part is teaching the new generation on how is nice this game even if you do not win and if you use a "fuffa" (it is read f - u like the double o of "toon" - f - f - a of "calm") armies ---> fuffa means weak.


P.s. I let you think how I have been seen when I entered my pal's association with De ahahaahahah

But some players are better suited to playing new guys than others.

You're so right here! Our veterans (for veterans I'm meaning in this post all of the players that are excelent tactician and enjoy tourneys and big competitions, non only who is playing for a very long time) aren't bad people kideating, but only do not feel satisfied in playing match that aren't "over the top". I know this is a bit tought to comprehend but who between us really like only the strategic side of Warhammer spends his time (his free time ok?) on building list and making advanced tactics.

[Devoted of slaanesh]

I hate to see when somebody is playing too big for playing with the newbees!!! It's a game on first place and it's made to share the good emotions together!!! Without new people this game is simply doomed!!! And who else than the so called vets can help the new people to advance and learn??? I was attracted to the game mostly by the friendlines of the GW staff in the Liege, Belgium shop at 2000 and when I moved back to Bulgaria in 2005 made a lot to promote our hibby!!! Now we have gaming club in Sofia and I will kick hard any one who think to despise any new comers!!!!