Starting with Chaos Warriors

Minigrift · Post by **Minigrift** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:55 pm

Hi all,

After playing exclusively with DE for the last 2 years I am now ready to start another army. Have had several different army books to choose from but finally decided on Chaos Warriors.

My original idea was to go with a Slaanesh themed Monsters & Marauders army, using two hordes of marauders backed up by a plethora of monsters, with a little magic thrown into the mix for good measure.

But then had another idea, to gather a Khornate themed army with lots of warriors and marauders, some knights and a chariot. The army include Scyla and will be led by Valkia the Bloody - she looks bloody good on paper (oh ho, my sides are splitting). This army will have no magic whatsoever, but will have lots and lots of troops to overwhelm the enemy with instead.

So, well, don't really know where I was going with this thread to be honest. I suppose I was looking for advice on starting a Chaos Warrior army. I like both themes, the first one would be awesomely expensive and the second one would be much easier to collect and paint, but is maybe a bit boring having no magic - am thinking towards 3,000 points maximum.

Will probably start with a battalion box or two (am getting the first on my next pay day) then just adding units from there. Will also definitely be getting a Hellcannon at some point as well.

Some questions:

Does anyone here play WoC? If so, can you give me some pointers?
Which theme do you like the best?
Will having no magic at all be really bad? Yes, it will put me at a disadvantage, I really want to stick with the Khorne theme, and it would give me more points for troops and whatnot.

Have some rough lists in mind already. Will write one out soon and post it up. Just wanted to gather some intel before I did that

Anything else you can think to add or comment on would be appreciated!!

Thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:28 pm

Yes, having no magic will put you at a huge disadvantage. This is especially true for Warriors of Chaos, whose magic is quite strong and relies heavily on manipulating miscasts in order to remove or weaken enemy casters. Still, theme isn't a bad thing, and if forming the most powerful list ever isn't your goal, then no worries. If you do go with a Khorne theme, then Marauders with great weapons are a good stable choice. Plenty of those will go a long way towards giving you a fearsome battle line, since they're deadly and very cheap per model. You'll probably want multiple units of 40+ models, so be prepared to pay quite a bit (not to mention conversions required to give them great weapons) or else have some good unit fillers so save you from having to buy all those models. Otherwise, there's a lot to be said for Warriors, Knights and Warshrines. You'll have to play smart, since opponents can manipulate Frenzied units into disadvantageous pursuits/overruns, and you won't have the durability that Mark of Tzeentch will give you. Still, sounds like a fun challenge, and as long as you like your army, that's really the important thing.

Minigrift · Post by **Minigrift** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:44 am

Tethlis wrote:Yes, having no magic will put you at a huge disadvantage. This is especially true for Warriors of Chaos, whose magic is quite strong and relies heavily on manipulating miscasts in order to remove or weaken enemy casters. Still, theme isn't a bad thing, and if forming the most powerful list ever isn't your goal, then no worries. If you do go with a Khorne theme, then Marauders with great weapons are a good stable choice. Plenty of those will go a long way towards giving you a fearsome battle line, since they're deadly and very cheap per model. You'll probably want multiple units of 40+ models, so be prepared to pay quite a bit (not to mention conversions required to give them great weapons) or else have some good unit fillers so save you from having to buy all those models. Otherwise, there's a lot to be said for Warriors, Knights and Warshrines. You'll have to play smart, since opponents can manipulate Frenzied units into disadvantageous pursuits/overruns, and you won't have the durability that Mark of Tzeentch will give you. Still, sounds like a fun challenge, and as long as you like your army, that's really the important thing.

Thank you Tethlis, as ever, your post was very insightful

Was thinking of having just one horde of GW wielding Khorne Marauders, maybe 50, that's only 300 points. Do you think I would need more than one?

Will also likely be running multiple units of Warhounds, a Warshrine and a Hellcannon. With Valkia and a BSB as well as one largish or two small units of warriors. Two battalion sets will give me 4 units of hounds (will use them much like our harpies, but they obviously can't fly), a horde of 40 marauders, enough warriors for one big unit or two smaller ones and 10 chaos knights - these guys are ridiculously expensive points wise so just going to run them as cheap as possible (MoK and musician with the minimum number allowed).

I'm glad you mentioned the Warshrine as I had overlooked it, was just going to take a chariot instead. the shrine is not only harder to kill but will probably benefit the army more as each champion can then roll on the 'Eye of the God' chart, gives one unit per turn a random blessing, and Valkia will let me re-roll it if it is unfavourable.

My DE has used magic in every list as our magic is one of our stronger aspects, and quite often it is the crux in whether I win my games or not. Not always, but it does tend to help me out most of the time. So having no magic would be a totally new approach for me, and I do like a challenge!

Any other thoughts to share?

Thanks again

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:32 pm

I'm happy to help. You can do just fine with one unit of Marauders, but taking multiples of them is a nice way to bulk out the number of threats you have on the table. A marauder horde can tear up enemy fodder, be a major threat to enemy elites and monsters, and can even reform 5-wide to serve as a Steadfast tarpit. They're really a great choice, so it doesn't hurt to have more than one block of them.

For Chaos Knights, they are indeed expensive, and I think the argument can be made either way for either small or big units of them. As far as big units go, I think that would be a pretty major threat to most enemies. The advantage of Chaos Knights that I see is that they hit equally hard in every round of combat, which makes them quite adept at grinding through opponents. Not having to rely on the lance charge bonus in order to hit with Strength 5 is great.

Minigrift · Post by **Minigrift** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:04 pm

Thanks again Tethlis

Do you play Chaos Warriors yourself? If so, would you critique an army list if I posted one?

Khorne Marauders with GW do look fearsome - apparently they came second place in the 'Best Warhammer Infantry' poll behind DE warriors... Their bigger base size is a boon for me, as it is not uncommon for 10-20 Dark Elf infantry to die to a single warmachine or blast attack. Marauders are less points and less would be affected. Bonus!

I do see 2 hordes of 40 (maybe 50 if I have the points) being very useful, and much more tactically diverse than one single, bigger horde.

As for Chaos Knights, would rather keep them cheap and have more threats on the table than spend 400+ points on a single unit - one bad spell could probably kill most of them in one go (the signature spell from Metal springs to mind). 5 with the MoK would still get 15 S5 attacks, which is fairly nice, then 5 S4 attacks from the steeds.

Would the Khorne mark affect the steeds, or only the riders?

If I upgraded the Knights to have lances would they be ensorcelled lances for S7 on the charge?

Thanks again!!!

Aveleys · Post by **Aveleys** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:25 pm

If you want to take a giant unit of marauders consider taking Wulfrik since they can walk in from a table edge behind your opponent which is amazing and game winning against gun lines. You would still be strengh 6 on the charge with lances, I recommend taking ensorcelled since it allows you to remain effective in protracted combats. If you want a really nasty death star take tzeentch chosen (they are amazing) and take the double warshrine and give them the banner that gives them terror (from the BRB) and give the champ favor of the gods and since you expressed interest in valkia take her and that gives you a unit that will have very very good chances of having a 3+ ward save, not much in the game can stop it.
Cheers,
-Ave

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:37 pm

The only WoC models I myself own are from my Cult of Slaanesh list from years ago. However, I fight against them regularly, and have used them on a number of occasions since I contemplated starting them as a side project and borrowed an army for several games to see how I enjoyed them.

Minigrift · Post by **Minigrift** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:33 am

Thank you both for your comments gentlemen

Won't be giving them lances then, will just stick with the ensorcelled weapons.

Not a big fan of Deathstar units to be honest, would much rather have multiple threats on the field rather than one big threat. That way if something bad or unlucky happens - and it will - then only one unit is maimed rather than half your army. But having said that, I can see your point about that being particularly nasty!

I have decided to go with a Khorne themed army led by Valkia the Bloody, will also have Scyla in the army as well. I like a challenge. If I want to be competitive/over the top/super cheesy/whataver then I have my Dark Elves to do that with :twisted:

This army will be more about flavour and having something fun to play with (not that DE aren't fun, mind you). Have an army in mind already - just need to find someone to have a looksee at it for me!

I see, Tethlis, aren't you a lucky one! Did you enjoy WoC?

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:41 pm

I did enjoy them, but as a dedicated Elven player, I wasn't used to the combination of cheap hordes and resilient blocks. There magic phase also took some getting used to, because instead of relying on sheer dice volume like Dark Elves do, they have to be better at manipulating different tricks (Infernal Puppet, Conjoined Haemonculus, Third Eye of Tzeentch) to make the most of the many different facets of the magic phase. It was still dangerous, but a very different type of dangerous.

I also regretted the lack of tactical flexibility for keeping my troops alive. Marching forward, dying, and hacking back in return was pretty much the order of the day. It really exemplified the Elves = scalpel, Chaos = blunt instrument example beautifully. I have to say, sending hordes of Northmen across the table to crush your foe relentlessly in combat is a great sensation. A list full of Chaos-armor clad warriors marching inexorably towards your opponent is tremendous fun.

dreadlord7476 · Post by **dreadlord7476** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:36 am

Well one thing I can say about a korn themed army is that you will get sick of panting red fast lol
For ur warrior units I would say halberds and shields would be the best set up in units of 15 this gives them the best combat ability and a 3+AS from shooting,
Marauder I’d say should be around 40 with grate weapons; they have grate grinding power and can negate steadfast. And if cost or converting is a problem, the empire flagellants make good great weapon marauders
Warshrine is a must. and the Hell cannon is the best rear choices , ans korn spawn are very useful agents enemy fast cava and scouts,
Plus u might like to look at korn marauder cav with flails, there grate war machine hunter and caster sniping, the dogs work to if u keep then in front of ur units as shooting screens and to stop them from running off because of frenzy

Minigrift · Post by **Minigrift** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:34 pm

Thanks for the replies gents!

Won't be using any magic at all so getting used to the chaos magic phase won't be a problem

I have about 6-7,000 points of Dark Elves painted predominantly purple and silver, so painting a different colour scheme would be a welcome change!

Crushing my foes in combat is generally quite fun. I have been on the receiving end of Chaos Warrior charges, and I know just lethal they can be. "What's that? 20 dead elves? Oh dear..."

Am aiming for 2,400 points first of all and will be getting the my first battalion in the next week or so. Don't have an army written out yet, but when I do it will look something like this:

Valkia
BSB
Scyla Anfingrimm
2x 40+ Marauders
2x 15+ Chaos Warriors
4x 5 Warhounds
1x 5 Knights
Warshrine
Hellcannon

Hopefully I can squeeze all that into 2,400 points. Everything will get the Mark of Khorne, if possible, but may run one or two units without, depending on the points I have to throw around. Think it's going to be a tight squeeze, though.

dreadlord7476 · Post by **dreadlord7476** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:58 am

Well the list looks good and yes u can fit this all in to 2400 except for the bsb but valkia covers that so and after all the mundane equipment’s and marks u have 30p left for extras like magic banners.

Well the only advise I can say about this army it will take some getting use to marauders are strait forwards there ether in a big bus to holed something up and slowly grind it or negate steadfast or there in horde too beat something up,

Warriors are the your elite killers because their high weapons skill and initiative but they are very fragile when it comes to shooting, magic and anything with ASF (iv see 15 warriors go in to 21 white lions 7x3 and only 3 warriors where left to attack)

Valka is a good sole but that’s what she is a sole she can jump in to units bit whats the point of paying 410 if you’re not using her flying rule but at the same time shes not that hard to kill it’s not easy but it’s not that hard ether,

Warshrines are pretty strait forward thay are hard to kill but don’t kill that much even with the mark of korn, and only LD8 so not a unit killer or tare pit more like fast cave and scout killer of small support

the dogs work to if u keep then in front of your units as shooting screens and to stop them from running off because of frenzy,

Scyla is a funny one the one problem with him is he ends up way ahead of your battle line and ether gets shot to death but he is a god hero assassin and caster killer and he can really hold up S3 units and rip them apart

The hell cannon well it’s a easy unit to learn hard to master first if you know how to use artillery and good target assignment you’ll be fine, but the hell cannon is also a grate combat monster with 5 S5 attacks and thunders stomp 4+AS and T6 is grate plus unbreakable he’s amassing
So here u go hope it helps
See u back in lustria lol

Minigrift · Post by **Minigrift** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:49 am

Thanks Kaileth

I think the BSB might be necessary, I can then cover more of the table with the 12 inch leadership bubbles, Valkia with better leadership for baiting tests, and with the BSB letting me re-roll all Ld based tests, as the better part of the army will be frenzied I'm going to have to re-roll baiting checks a lot, I imagine. One failed test (especially on one of the bigger blocks) could put my battle line in a compromising situation.

Am looking for a really fun, fluffy army, and this is about as far from playing magic heavy DE as I can imagine. Am looking forward to the challenge.

Valkia can join units and isn't frenzied, which is a good thing in my opinion. One idea I had was to bunker her in a unit (without the MoK) for protection, then charge her out at any warmachines, or small units (that won't flee - hopefully), am going to use her as a sort of 'glorified' warmachine hunter. She can also be used solo to get flank or rear charges while a ranked up unit holds them in place. Am fairly confident that she has a really good chance of winning any challenges (since she must challenge). Her ability to re-roll any rolls on the 'Eye of the Gods', coupled with the Warshrine, will be very useful. Unless I fluff it up somehow, and knowing my luck, that is quite likely...

Will probably use the hounds much like I use our harpies, but I can get twice as many for around the same points.

Scyla, again, he's there more for fluff reasons, being Khornate incarnate himself. Will likely run him along with the Knights as they're the 'speedy' parts of the army. But Knights, I'm not so sure about, they seem really expensive. Trolls or Ogres may be a better option, but I will get 10 knights from the battalion boxes so going to use them (means I won't have to fork out another £40+ on another unit).

Hellcannon is also more for fun than for flavour - having an entire army devoid of shooting and magic would be rather boring for me, I think. Not only does it look awesome, but could provide the force with some much needed humour, lol. Plus, if if manages to kill something in the shooting phase that would just be a bonus!

Wow, I've written a lot... That was a great help Dread! Nothing beats actual experience but it's good to get an idea of things before you invest a lot of money and time into it!

If I wrote out a proper army list would you take a look at it for me?

See you back in Lustria!

Minigrift · Post by **Minigrift** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:50 pm

Valkia The Bloody; 410

Exalted Battle Standard Bearer; Dragonhelm; Helm of Many Eyes; Necrotic Phylactery; Shield; 185

Sylya Anfingrimm; 105

48 Chaos Marauders; Full Command; Great Weapons; Mark of Khorne; 290
25 Chaos Marauders; Full Command; Flails; 145
17 Chaos Warriors; Full Command; Banner of Rage; Halberds; Shield; 354
11 Chaos Warriors; Full Command; Halberds; Banner of Eternal Flame; 216
5 Chaos Warhounds; 30
5 Chaos Warhounds; 30
5 Chaos Warhounds; 30
5 Chaos Warhounds; 30

5 Chaos Knights; Mark of Khorne; Musician; 240

Chaos Warshrine; 130
Hellcannon; 205

Okay, that's what I have come up with. Nearly got into trouble at work as this is all I've been thinking about all day, lol

Rough plan is:

There is 5 or 6 deployment drops (hounds/shrine/cannon) to try and get favourable match ups with my other units. Valkia will go with the small unit of warriors initially, then charge out at something when convenient. That small unit is for monster hunting, hence the flame banner. The BSB is going with the other warrior unit, so he gets frenzy for 'free'. The marauder horde holds the centre, and the smaller marauder unit I will try to use as a flanking unit to negate steadfast, hopefully smashing my opponents biggest/toughest block. The knights and Scyla will go up one flank to support each other. The hellcannon is for fun and shenanigans and the shrine will guard the 'other flank' of one of my main combat blocks. The hounds have various purposes, as needed.

Something like that, anyway

The only thing I wasn't sure about was the BSB. His set up and placement. Can stick him with the knights or keep him on foot with the big unit of warriors... What do you think?

Right, Kaileth, fire away

dreadlord7476 · Post by **dreadlord7476** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:43 am

Well the list looks ok but I think ur trying to get to fancy with the tactics
Some questions thou why 48 marauders and what size of formation?
Well I still say u don’t need a bsb in the list but meh
The bsb is survivable but the helm of many eyes is a waste I would give him the sword of swift slaying for the same point coast but no stupidity, plus if u can I would try to get the stream of corruption DG on him
And ur warriors are shooting fodder with only CA I would add shields
The unit of 25 marauders should have shields if there just flankers and steadfast breakers of WGs if u still want them to have a punch, same points ether way
I would drop the mark of korn on the knights 5 S5 attacks aren’t worth 30 points
I would drop one unit of dogs 3 units is good
Thats all I have to say list wise for now
Tactics wise…
The warshrine is bad for holding flanks if it gets charged it never wins combat
And the hell canon you might say it for fun but it’s the best unit in ure army it should be the last thing u place and it can win games first turn,

Well that is what I think so far just got off a 12 hour shift at work so a bit dead if I think of anything more ill post again

Minigrift · Post by **Minigrift** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:21 am

Wow! Thanks Dread

Too fancy with the tactics, right, lol. That probably stems from my tendency to over think things. Your right about the Sword of Swift Slaying, didn't even think of that to be honest.

As for the BSB, I think I would need more than one character (2, if you include Scyla) and the BSB gives me plenty of benefits as well as being pretty mean in close combat.. What do you think of sticking him on a barded steed? He will have a slightly different set up as he'll get a 1+ save. Should I just keep him on foot (or on horse) with the warriors, what do you think?

Will free up some points to stick shields on the second unit of warriors. And will give the BSB the Stream of Corruption as well.

48 marauders are going in horde formation, Are champions necessary, do you think? In the smaller unit I might just run them with a musician and spend the free points of shields for the other warriors.

I'll be careful with the shrine so it doesn't get charged. Hellcannon deploys last, I can see the benefit in doing that, makes sense.

Have to start getting ready for work, but will make amendments when I get back later on!

Thanks again

dreadlord7476 · Post by **dreadlord7476** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:19 am

The bsb should be on foot it makes him more flexible
And champions are god for units with caractes in them so if a assassin pops out to get ur bsb the champ can try and take him.
And don’t forget thou the camps have the eye of the gods rule because of the war shrine

Minigrift · Post by **Minigrift** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:25 pm

Thanks Dread

Have edited the list slightly using your suggestions. Here it is:

Valkis's Valorous Vanguard

Valkia The Bloody; 410

Exalted Battle Standard Bearer; Sword of Swift Slaying; Dragonhelm; Necrotic Phylactery; Ironcurse Icon; Stream of Corruption; Shield; 210

Sylya Anfingrimm; 105

50 Chaos Marauders; Full Command; Great Weapons; Mark of Khorne; 300
24 Chaos Marauders; Musician; Flails; 128
17 Chaos Warriors; Full Command; Banner of Rage; Halberds; Shield; 354
11 Chaos Warriors; Full Command; Banner of Eternal Flame; Halberds; Shields; 227
5 Chaos Warhounds; 30
5 Chaos Warhounds; 30
5 Chaos Warhounds; 30
5 Chaos Warhounds; 30

5 Chaos Knights; Musician; 210

Chaos Warshrine; 130
Hellcannon; 205

If I was to reduce this to 2,000 points, what would you recommend I change? (Your going to tell me to drop the BSB, aren't you? lol).

The knights will do for now while I get the army built up. But I am considering dropping them for a unit of trolls. I would then stick the BSB on a mount of some kind and have him lead them, that's for future consideration, though!

That's all for now!

Thank you very much for your help - much appreciated

dreadlord7476 · Post by **dreadlord7476** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:01 pm

Well do u really want valkia cause dropping her would get you there quickly
But ill guess u want to keep her so this is what I would droop
Sylya Anfingrimm; 105
24 Chaos Marauders; Musician; Flails; 128
5 Chaos Knights; Musician; 210
5 Chaos Warhounds; 30
5 Chaos Warhounds; 30
That puts ur list at 1997
And about ur bsb he is very important at 2000 cause if u lose one of ur combat blocks ur army really suffers plus he’s a great support character in ur blocks, plus ur army is pretty small but is great for deny flank, and then it turns in to a compact hammer that will blow through most opposition.
Hope this helps

Minigrift · Post by **Minigrift** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:00 pm

Aw, really? As I was going to drop the BSB and the second unit of warriors... or maybe the Knights, but then I wouldn't have anything fast to threaten my enemy with (the hounds are fast but not much of a threat). But after being dead against the BSB before now you want me to keep him, lol.

That army was 2,400 points and your suggestions come to 500 points. I guess Scyla isn't mandatory but would inject a little fun into my games. The entire army is based around Valkia so she is necessary. I would also, ideally, like to keep the 4 units of hounds as deployment drops and for getting at warmachines etc, having just two doesn't seem all that reliable to me.

Good point about the deny flank option, I think this army would be really good for doing that with!

Anyway, Dread, thanks again for your help