Ras' Return: Tzeench Chaos Warriors

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Rasputinii
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Ras' Return: Tzeench Chaos Warriors

Post by Rasputinii »

Hello everyone,

First post here in a very very long time.
I've not played warhammer for about 7 years. But something pricked my interest again recently and I went to a GW to play a tester game of 8th. I've not been able to stop thinking about it since, so I think it might be time to get an army and get it on again. For those that don't know me (most of you) I used to play for Team Shenanigans in the UK, and I was alright. I was primarily Druchii, but I had ogres and Beastmen too.

Since catching up on the rules and thinking about things I've ended up being really interested in a Tzeench army. I think it ticks lots of boxes (Redundancy, Monsters, Flying, Dependance, Playing in all the phases). Plus I've always though Tzeench was really ace. I like bright colours. My Druchii were Orange.

2400 seems to be the most common game level and tournament level these days, so I'm aiming for that. I don't tailor my lists to fight certain opponents, I always have tournaments in mind. But I also like to paint/convert and a theme. So please don't critique this list with suggestions of others Mark or units belonging to other gods. Tzeench or no mark only.

The List:

DP - 460
Lvl3 , Fly, Tzeench, Channel Staff, Dragonbane Gem, Charmed Shield,
Flame Breath, scaly skin, soul feder, burning body,


Exalted - 179 (uses lore of Tzeench)
Tzeench, Halberd, Sh, Ruby Ring, Talisman Protection, Dragon Helm

Exalted BSB - 233
BSB, DiscTzeench, Sh, Talisman Preservation, 3rd Eye

5 Dogs - 30
5 Dogs - 30
5 Dogs - 30
5 Horsemen - 90
Sh, Sp, Muso
23 Warriors - 426 Tzeench, Sh, FC - Banner of Flaming attacks

Chimera - 275 Breath Weapon and Regeneration
3 Dragon Ogres - 204 Great Weapons
Gorebeast Chariot - 130

Mutalith Vortex Beast - 240
Spawn - 70
Tzeench

Total: 2397


How it lays out
Exalted on foot joins warriors in 5x5 formation. Chariot and Warriors act as an anchor to keep the enemy facing forward. Spawn acts as support for warriors in the form of a rear guard or flank protection. The fast stuff either masses up together or splits with the Marauders Chimera and DP taking one side and the DO / Mutalith, BSB hounds taking the other. Alternative plays whole army on one half of the board to maximise leadership and BSB re-rolls against ranged heavy armies. DP-Chimera combo charge looks really interesting. Lots of flaming attacks to deal with he nasty side effect of warpfire.

I feel the list has good synergy and Balance, with multiple Threats of different types. The two bound spells stabilize the magic phase, and the fireball works good with the downside of warpfire. Theres alot of targets for shooting I feel, which should play to my advantage as there is so much redundancy in the list.

Concerns/Questions
1) 'm really hesitant about my magic defense. I feel like I need a scroll. Particularly for T.1/2. The problem is to get it in the list I either need to turn my exalted in to a Sorcerer, and that sucks because the exalted is way better. Or I give it to the DP, but then he looses his awesome channeling abilities plus the extra resistance and he needs to be made LVL4 to get the 4th spell back. Both options are crap, but I think I need the scroll.

2) The banner on the Warriors. I went for the flaming to deal with the regen thing, but I feel like either the Movement banner, the armour piercing banner, the Blasted Standard or the Standard of discipline & Warbanner would all be great choices, and maybe more useful that flaming attacks? Thoughts on this would be great appreciated.

3) I'd of liked another unit of horsemen TBH. I'd like another warrior in the unit. I'd also really like a unit of Marauders with flails MSU style. Can't have everything though right?


I'd really appreciate thoughts and suggestions.
At the moment I own nothing, so changes are easy to make ;)
Last edited by Rasputinii on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ras' Return: Tzeench Chaos Warriors

Post by Setomidor »

Welcome back mate! :)

I am not a WoC expert, but some general comments:

- DPs are really awesome with a 1+ armour save, regardless of mark, so I really would recommend getting Scaled Skin in there. I probably would drop the Breath weapon to get the points.
- Your BSB is nasty indeed, but I would suggest a GW to give him some punch.
- I agree with the concerns about having no scroll, but it can absolutely not go on the DP. I would try to play without a scroll at first (your list is not very weak against magic since the DP has 1+ and 2++ against Flaming), and then adjust if you find that you need it.
- Not sure about the walking class-hero, do you need him? I would probably upgrade the DP to Lvl4 and use the extra points for something else.
- WoC core chariots are really, really, good. Their M8 is absolutely amazing and makes them outcharge most other chariots in a stand-off.
- Flaming attacks against regen is great, but also a bit of a liability since the Dragon* items are very popular. You are going to struggle with panic tests on the Warriors (especially if your BSB/DP flies away), so two ways of compensating for this is either having the Standard of Dicipline (+1LD), or Standard of Swiftness (+1M) to better keep up with the fast stuff.
- For the panic reason mentioned above, your dogs are a _big_ liability (shooting at them will cause a lot in your list to panic). They are not Fast Cav any longer so I think you will find them hard to use and mostly in the way. I would recommend a Chariot or another unit of Marauder Horse instead.
- I kind of like Dragon Ogres, but they don't seem to be considered a competitive choice so unless you want them for model/fluff reasons, you can get 6 Chaos Trolls for the same price (which on the other hand are _awesome_), or another pair of Chariots.

Good luck!
//Seto
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Re: Ras' Return: Tzeench Chaos Warriors

Post by Heartsbane »

Looks like a fun and characterful list! A few thoughts though:

You've alot of magic in there, which will be wasted points in a low magic turn and even on a good winds of magic roll you'll find you can't use it all. I'd suggest loosing a little to save points.

Gorebeast chariots are brutally good for their points, and regular chariots as core are good value too, I'd suggest trying to find points for at least one more chariot (of either sort).

I agree with Setomidor, some flaming is good, too much flaming can be bad.

I don't really see what the spawn brings to the list, I'd be minded to drop it.

If you're going magic heavy, a warshrine can be a good way to chew through the opponent's dispell dice in the early turns, or if he lets its spell through then your characters get boosted into (even scarier) monsters!

If you're new to 8th, be prepared for the impact of steadfast. Your fast stuff has at most one rank (and that's from the dogs/horsemen, who are unlikely to reach the end of a round of close combat at full strength), so if an enemy unit has even 10 models left (or 5 if you don't have a rank) they're testing on stubborn leadership. Not an insurmountable problem, but it does mean you need to pick your fights rather than just tearing stuff up.
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Re: Ras' Return: Tzeench Chaos Warriors

Post by xFallenx »

Welcome back! Good to have you. I'll leave the advice to the others as It's only been a year since my own return & I've only faced WoC 3 times & each was a completely different army. The Throgg monster mash was by far the nastiest.
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Re: Ras' Return: Tzeench Chaos Warriors

Post by Rasputinii »

Thanks for the thoughts guys.
The DP does have scaly skin, but I've also realized he costs 525 points.... so um, that necessitates some changes.

On magic:
I don't think there's a lot of magic, but its very redundant. 2 bound spells provide easy to cast, impossible to miss cast magic which forms a stable bunker around which the Lore of Tzeench can act. The four spells on Tzeench give me a chance of getting more than just the random damage spells.

Dragon Ogres: Trolls scare me. LD4 WS3 is not a great thing. The abundance of flaming attacks out there makes them an obvious target. Why does everyone like them so much?

I see what you mean about the panic thing. Maybe you are right. But I like the idea of cheap screens and redirectors, but maybe they need Vanguard to keep them out of panic distance from the main line.

The Exalted Champ on foot is there to make that warrior unit tough as nails on its own. He dishes out high strength attacks and can open cans. But you might well be right, because he could go out for a unit of 15 Marauders of Tzeench with LA and Sh. Which would be an interesting addition to increase the ranks and the battle line. I'm also wondering if maybe the BSB would be better served in the mainline by being on foot, and if the aExalted should be liberated to go on a disc, or swapped out to be a sorcerer on a disc?
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Re: Ras' Return: Tzeench Chaos Warriors

Post by Rork »

I'm always wary of flaming attacks. They're handy sometimes (fear in cavalry must have its uses sometimes!), but I'm still wary of them because of anti-fire tools. I prefer the more general utility of the war banner or the paranoid safety of the gleaming pennant (particularly if your BSB is going to zoom off). Flaming attacks are characterful though, and probably not an issue in most instances.

Armour piercing isn't really an option for them since the limit for their banner is only 25 points :( .
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Re: Ras' Return: Tzeench Chaos Warriors

Post by Rasputinii »

Criticism taking on board, from both here and other sites, some thinking done, and some re-reading of the rules and I've made some changes.
The main one being the Inclusion of Scyla. I pinched the idea of this from General of Chaos on chamber of the ever chosen. I know he's Khorne, but he won't look Khorne in my army - it'll be a counts as thingy. For me he serves three functions.
1) LD 10 - at a balance of speeds. This way he should be able to provide the leadership to the slow units and the fast units, at least in the early turns. Plus its a big help for the trolls.
2) He's a spawn with reliable movement and more damage. So I can use his unbreakable to tie things up as needed.
3) He's a guardian, both because of his damage output but also because he has MR(3), which should be handy given I have no scrolls. He will probably deeply in this unit, and then move out of it in T-2 if his unbreakable skills are needed. Otherwise he boosts the trolls combat efficiency significantly.

I've also put in the trolls as suggested and swapped the third unit of dogs for a second unit of horsemen, and given both units javelins, just to help in the Chaff wars. Against shooting heavy armies the non-vanguard dogs will act as a screen. Against fast armies they will act as a rear-guard, to tie up fast moves that fall in behind the army.

I've also swapped the Gorebeast chariot for a regular chariot, and put the movement banner on the warriors. As much as I love the gorebeast model, and the T6 + extra damage is awesome, I think the synergy of the army is compromised by its speed, and by speeding the chariot and the warriors up, I can keep the leadership bubble protecting the slow units and the fast units (read: Chimera) for longer, which I think offers more for than the extra damage/toughness. I'd very much like to work in a second chariot though to make up the lack of hitting power. If I dropped a unit of dogs and 3 chaos warriors is still leaves me 19 points short, and I can't find those points without compromising something :(


The List:

DP - 520
Lvl4 (Lore of Tzeench), Fly, Tzeench, Obsidian Trinket, Dragonbane Gem, Charmed Shield,
Flame Breath, scaly skin, soul feeder


Exalted BSB - 254
BSB, Disc, Tzeench, Sh, GW, Talisman Preservation, 3rd Eye, Burning Body

Scyla - 105 GENERAL

5 Dogs - 30
5 Dogs - 40
Vanguard
5 Horsemen - 95 Sh, Sp, Javelin, Muso
5 Horsemen - 100 Sh, Sp, Throwing Axes, Muso
22 Warriors - 419 Tzeench, Sh, FC - Banner of Swiftness
Chaos Chariot - 110

Chimera - 275 Breath Weapon and Regeneration
6 Trolls - 210 [i]

Mutalith Vortex Beast - 240

Total: 2400


Ideally I would of liked to get the Chaos Familiar on the DP. I would also have liked a Chaos Chariot in there too. I'm still a little worried about the magic defence, and loosing the bound spell isn't my favourite trade in. However I can't see any sensible trade ins to get any of those things. The chariot would make the obvious addition to make the army 2500.

Open to thoughts / criticsms.
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