Wood Elves

[serekth]

Lastly attached to Sisters of the Thorn. Sort of the same way we use our Warlock Bunkers. Of course this last option really limits the Sister's mobility.

I'm not sure why this option would limit the Sister's mobility. Putting a Spellweaver on an Elven Steed confers the Spellweaver the Fast Cavalry rule as per page 90 of the Wood Elf rulebook.

But on the other hand the Sisters will enjoy the +1 to cast the same as the Spellweaver and will have a 4++ ward versus damage from the Spellweaver's miscasts.

I'm also not sure why the Sisters get +1 to cast because they don't have the Blessing of the Ancients special rule. You mentioned in a later post that you were talking about that special rule.

I think one of the best options for bunkering a Spellweaver is definitely a unit of 9 Sisters. Give the Sister the Lichebone Pennant and they're at 3++ against spells. Being fast cav, you won't ever be able to catch them. Shooting could bring them down, but they do have a 4++ against that. And if you play smart, you can avoid that.

[Dragon9]

And Dryads (which could make a bunker) are a poor choice because they are simply a poor choice period.

Not sure why all the Dryad hate. Point wise their the same as Witches. No frenzy, but they get +1 T, same base attacks, Fear, and universal Hatred, plus a 6+ ward. I don't think they're the end al be all, but I don't think they're horrible.

[serekth]

And Dryads (which could make a bunker) are a poor choice because they are simply a poor choice period.

Not sure why all the Dryad hate. Point wise their the same as Witches. No frenzy, but they get +1 T, same base attacks, Fear, and universal Hatred, plus a 6+ ward. I don't think they're the end al be all, but I don't think they're horrible.

I think a lot of it has to do with their maneuverability being gutted because they are no longer skirnishers. And now that they rank up, they don't have anything like a musician. In an army where controlling the movement phase is absolutely essential, it's hard to find a place for them. Wood elves are my main army and I can't find a place for them. In terms of ranked up models, I'd choose eternal guard over them every time. I can even live with the reduced strength change but it's the skirmish loss that gets me.

[Clockwork]

IMO they should be valued for having T4 in an army of T3 5+ armour. Evidently, Ward agreed - which is why he dropped their Strength down to 3, and this is the pattern for all Forest Spirits. You've got Elves that are stabby but extremely fragile, and Forest Spirits that are tough but not all that offensive - in other words, you can't have your cake and eat it.

The problem is that killing things is almost always better than not dying. Still, if you want that anvil you can get it in Treekin or Dryads, and with the right support they can be pretty kill too.

[Minsc]

And Dryads (which could make a bunker) are a poor choice because they are simply a poor choice period.

Not sure why all the Dryad hate. Point wise their the same as Witches. No frenzy, but they get +1 T, same base attacks, Fear, and universal Hatred, plus a 6+ ward. I don't think they're the end al be all, but I don't think they're horrible.

With all due respect, but if you're gonna compare units, in this case Witches to Dryads, you should really mention all the pro's and con's for both units.

Dryads have:
*Fear.
*+1 T.
*A 6+ ward.
(*Magical attacks, in an army already full of them.)

These are their "only" pro's over Witches.

Witches have:
*+1 I over Dryads (yes, they are no longer I6)...
*...Which combined with ASF is much better than Hatred.
*Frenzy (as you mentioned, but they also have...)
*Poisoned Attacks
*Murderous Prowess
*Smaller footprint (thanks Gidean.)

*On top of this, they have command options, and this is (imo) Dryads biggest flaw: They're not very maneuverable since they can't take a musician.

Forest Strider isn't worth mentioning, since believe it or not, but Dryads don't want to enter forests, because they get no benefit from it, they only loose their ranks.
Dryads being ItP is cancelled by Witches having Frenzy.

So in the end it comes down to apples and oranges, but imo Witches are far superior to Dryads. They are not as resilient, but they are far deadlier and more maneuverable.
(Also Eternal Guard are a better choice than Dryads 9 times out of 10, but that's an different matter entirely. )

[Gidean]

I'm also not sure why the Sisters get +1 to cast because they don't have the Blessing of the Ancients special rule. You mentioned in a later post that you were talking about that special rule.

I think one of the best options for bunkering a Spellweaver is definitely a unit of 9 Sisters. Give the Sister the Lichebone Pennant and they're at 3++ against spells. Being fast cav, you won't ever be able to catch them. Shooting could bring them down, but they do have a 4++ against that. And if you play smart, you can avoid that.

Oops. I thought the Sisters had that Blessing of the Ancients. My bad for posting when I left my book at work. When I said the Spellweaver would limit their mobility I was thinking that you want to keep her in the woods so she DOES get the +1 to cast. But those Sisters need to remain mobile and out where their spells and javelins can do the most harm. I think Eternal Guard make the best bunker.

And another bad thing about Dryads over witches is 25 mm bases compared to 20. More bang for the footprint for Witches.

[Sihdhartha]

Sorry, I didn't read through everything, but I played a 3 way game last weekend, 2500 pts each using Triumph and Treachery, my Dark Elves, vrs. High Elves, vrs. Wood Elves.

Luckily the HE ended up in the middle so it was basically a pound-fest on our stiff necked cousins. But my impressions, their hvy (Have to laugh when I say this) cav hits hard with furious charge!!! Watched 5 of them do some serious damage to a unit of white lions. I usually don't take it, but as we ended up with six forests!!! (five of which were venom thickets) on the board I am almost considering a Ranger's Standard as a must take item vrs. them!!! (especially since we almost always end up with some river that effs with my movement).

Luckily I wand't the target of most of the shooting, but the shooting plain scares me!! I generally run a CoB/witch elf hoard and usually bleed off Witch Elves to shooting up until I can get them into melee, makes me think Life is more and more a must take lore.

[Calisson]

I am almost considering a Ranger's Standard as a must take item vrs. them!!!

Ranger standard only make the unit strider, i.e. not testing for dangerous terrain.
All other terrain effects remain.

[Sihdhartha]

I am almost considering a Ranger's Standard as a must take item vrs. them!!!

Ranger standard only make the unit strider, i.e. not testing for dangerous terrain.
All other terrain effects remain.

True, but crossing a river or charging into/through a forest with 30-40 WE & a COB? I am a notoriously bad roller, you'd be surprised how many I could loose.

[Askador]

I am almost considering a Ranger's Standard as a must take item vrs. them!!!

Ranger standard only make the unit strider, i.e. not testing for dangerous terrain.
All other terrain effects remain.

True, but crossing a river or charging into/through a forest with 30-40 WE & a COB? I am a notoriously bad roller, you'd be surprised how many I could loose.

I love the Witch Cob Horde. I almost always play them. But against Woodelves i will not. There are just no targets for them. If you are lucky you can charge 10 Archers everthing else will be somewhere else keep on shooting you.

Well as long the Woodelve plays in a competive way. If there is a Horde of Ethernal Guard, Dryards and a block of Treekin it would work. But i dont think you will see that often.

[Sihdhartha]

\

I love the Witch Cob Horde. I almost always play them. But against Woodelves i will not. There are just no targets for them. If you are lucky you can charge 10 Archers everthing else will be somewhere else keep on shooting you.

Well as long the Woodelve plays in a competive way. If there is a Horde of Ethernal Guard, Dryards and a block of Treekin it would work. But i dont think you will see that often.

We usually play 3-player T&T, I've normally got another opponent to contend with as well, usually HE or occasionally O&G, but rumor has it this weekend VC, we'll see

[Gidean]

I'd suggest to him squeezing the waystone in there somewhere. The threat of a unit of wild riders popping out somewhere from a forest behind you can't be overestimated.

He did squeeze in the stone at the expense of the sisters. Nobody in our club can beat him. You were spot on about how filthy the WE army can be. Leave it to Mat Ward to create a book that to play the list competitively absolutely sucks ALL the fun out of the game for your opponent. I played him yesterday with a Dwarf Airforce army and it was just an exercise in futility. Nobody else in our club (Brets, High Elves, OK, Nurgle Demons) can touch him. I think his only challenger would be another WE army.

Then I played our High Elf Player and tabled him. He was as unhappy as I was playing the Wood Elves.

[Dalamar]

Here's a hint (theoretical mind you, there aren't many wood elf players in my area) for a trick that I would try with my current (well, latest) list. It has barely any shooting and/or magic missiles so there's a vulnerability to Wood Elves right there.

But, it has two units of nearly 30 models so my idea would be to put my reapers in any forests in my deployment zone, preventing waystone tricks and deploy the two infantry blocks 15 wide, marching them across the board and plugging gaps with chaff so the wood elf army would be unable to squeeze past with anything except fliers (who'd then get shot down by reapers) and eventually Glade Riders. Keep Cauldron and Shrine outside of units (unless there's a lot of hagbane arrows) and keep declaring charges. anything 12" or less, declare a charge. The wood elves don't have the staying power to maintain prolonged combats with large infantry units, even if they're spread in wide formations so you will see them flee... a lot, and most of their units still aren't fast cavalry so that will take them out of the game for a turn... and then charge again, until they run out of the table.

[Thraundil]

Problem is vs a dirty shooting wood elf list, he will have so many darned shots (either poison or trueflight is standard on all the (vastly numbered) core archers). 40 glade guard is not unheard of. Hitting on 3's, wounding on 4's thats 13 wounds, or 9 models per turn. Add his at least 10 waywatchers and a magic missile, in the time it takes you to close into actual charging distance, he can remove half of one unit if not more. If his wild riders are placed to counter charge, your strategy could quickly blow up in your face (those things are fierce when they get to charge!).

[Pablo]

If you are worried about your opponents filth shooty list, take a bunch of brolocks with a couple characters and dark magic and ram it down their throats. Doombolts take them off. Even chillwind takes them off. And our characters can kill anything they throw at us.
Support that with darkshards, dark riders, bolt throwers, and some shades to contest deployment and you can shoot his stuff off too. Witchstars and executioners are too slow and fragile.

[Killerk]

I have faced he WE on a few occasions and at first glance they are OP, but as soon as you get anything decent in to combat its game over for them.
they have a T3 no armour, and lack combat power. Learn to exploit those weaknesses and suddenly the WE start becoming manageable.
Their best combat unit has frenzy, its just asking for trouble.

last game I was using my won and I was getting decimated by turn 2, was actually going to throw the towel on this one. but then I thought to my self my opponent took the time to show up, I usually beat him, I'll give him the satisfaction of labeling me. just one chimera and some forsaken made it to his lines, I it went through his entire army killing something like 1500 points in a few turns. giving me a draw or small win.

so yes they are nasty but they lack durability and much like us one mistake or a streak of luck and your in trouble. So if you can pressure them long enough you should inflict pain on them.

another thing DE always struggled vs small arms fire, and he WE army is just that.