continuing on from http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=54816
So, heres my attempt at a combat based army round a seer council:
Farseer 130pts - Doom, mind war, Runes of witnessing, spirit stone
Farseer 135pts - Fortune, mind war, Runes of witnessing, spirit stone
8 Warlock body guards 200 + 20 pts
Embolden, Enhance
5 pathfinders 120pts
10 Guardians 105pts - Starcannon
7 Howling Banshees 139pts - Exarch, Executioner, War shout
7 Striking Scorpions 139pts - Exarch, Scorpions claw
988 pts 39 models, 1 platform.
Basically the two farseers are with the warlocks and they hunt down everything with a low armour save. the guardians support them, trying to hold there flanks, and take some shorts at anything a little mean with there starcannon. the farseers take out any heavy weapons and characters with mind war. the partfinders can try to get those ap1 shots at some heavy armoured units, or just try and get some pinning tests out of units. the banshees strike those heavy armoured units, and the scorpions either finish whats left in the wake of the council or soften up units ready for a council charge.
What do you think about unit sizes? what do you think about the speed? its a pretty slow army. i'm reluctant to buy any new models at the moment, and i want to keep it mainly on foot and in combat. How about remove the guardians and putting some more pathfinders in?
I'm also going to make a jet bike list, which will fight much the same, but less numbers and with lots more speed. i'll post that up after we've had a little discussion about this list.
Thanks in advance.
Eldar list: 1k
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Mr_piechee
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Mr. anderson
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I don't have a lot of time ATM because I really should be doing homework... avoidance behaviour of the finest 
anyway... The one thing I have noticed is that you will have a lot of trouble dealing with tanks (and the big guns they carry around) you only have close combat weapons against tanks (the witchblades) and no ranged weaponry which can reliably bust tanks.
The big guns of the tanks are a huge problem because they can easily blast your extremely fragile space elves well past tomorrow...
What I'd suggest is getting rid of one farseer and the guardians to boost the banshees up to ten and get them a wave serpent with bright lances or something along the lines of that.
HUZZAH!
anyway... The one thing I have noticed is that you will have a lot of trouble dealing with tanks (and the big guns they carry around) you only have close combat weapons against tanks (the witchblades) and no ranged weaponry which can reliably bust tanks.
The big guns of the tanks are a huge problem because they can easily blast your extremely fragile space elves well past tomorrow...
What I'd suggest is getting rid of one farseer and the guardians to boost the banshees up to ten and get them a wave serpent with bright lances or something along the lines of that.
HUZZAH!
When I think of something witty, I shall put it here.
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Zakath the slaughterer
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I would agree with Mr. Anderson about the anti-tank issue... Switching the other Farseer for a Autarch w/Fusion Gun and Jetbike to spearhead your assaults and bust those tanks would IMO be a worthy investment.
Doom, Pathfinders and Banshees in one army.. Hell yeah
You chose Runes of Witnessing for your Farseers... Why
You already have both LD10 and Embolden (check the Eldar FAQ) so RoW seem like an overkill. I'd much rather take Runes of Warding to block those nasty Lashes and Waaghs. But if you don't want that either, Shadowstrike for the Scorpions would improve them a lot, helping to get them into CC on turn 2 instead of 4...
I personally dislike Wave Serpents because they are not scoring units, they drop easily and you can't assault out of them
Oh, and the Guardians.. What about Missile Launcher? Guided, it hits 75% of time and makes a fine anti-tank addition while being a threat to infantry as well. It would also get you another pinning unit And Doomed units wouldn't like the S4 blast at all
BTW.. Maybe spare a Warlock for the Guardians as well? With Conceal or if you have enough terrain, Embolden to keep 'em fighting
Doom, Pathfinders and Banshees in one army.. Hell yeah
You chose Runes of Witnessing for your Farseers... Why
You already have both LD10 and Embolden (check the Eldar FAQ) so RoW seem like an overkill. I'd much rather take Runes of Warding to block those nasty Lashes and Waaghs. But if you don't want that either, Shadowstrike for the Scorpions would improve them a lot, helping to get them into CC on turn 2 instead of 4...
I personally dislike Wave Serpents because they are not scoring units, they drop easily and you can't assault out of them
Oh, and the Guardians.. What about Missile Launcher? Guided, it hits 75% of time and makes a fine anti-tank addition while being a threat to infantry as well. It would also get you another pinning unit
And Doomed units wouldn't like the S4 blast at all
BTW.. Maybe spare a Warlock for the Guardians as well? With Conceal or if you have enough terrain, Embolden to keep 'em fighting
Master of puppets I'm pulling your strings/
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams/
Blinded by me, you cant see a thing/
Just call my name, `cause Ill hear you scream
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams/
Blinded by me, you cant see a thing/
Just call my name, `cause Ill hear you scream
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Mr_piechee
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hadn't really thought about tanks..
Losing one farseer might have to happen then.. should i give doom to the other one then? And its unlikely that i will use a wave serpent cause then i have to buy one!
I wouldn't mind have combat tank killers, but what would you say to singing spears? that str 9 attack from 10 models should do nicely, although suffers from the problem the rest of the army has... its too slow.
i agree with the RoW. i'll change that. is the warding worth it? for the moment i'll just be playing my cousin and learning the rules of 5th ed (i haven't played properly since 3rd ed) and he plays chaos. i pretty much know what he will field cause he basically only has what we gave him, so i know there's no psychic powers and big tanks coming my way. having said that hes only young so i don't want to slaughter him every battle. i also hope to find some clubs near me in Southampton to play this list with... but we'll see about that...
the guardians; can I 'cast' guide when I'm in combat on a unit not? in that cause the missile launcher and guide might be a good idea.
is it worth putting a wraithlord in with two tank killing weapons? is twin linked bright lances better than one with a missile launcher? personally I seem to think the cost of 2 for twin linked is over the top!
i was thinking about a warlock with the guardians, but wanted to keep them cheap... 1ks not many points to fit all this in... is it worth just taking 5 warlocks in the council, and increasing it to 10 in 1.5k? I'm not sure how many points I'm going to be playing but since my cousin has just about/under 1.5k i thought 1k would give him a chance to make some different lists and see how they pan out. his birthdays coming up and we've got him the new rule book, but i guess his parents might get him some more units, so 1.5k might be on the cards...
Losing one farseer might have to happen then.. should i give doom to the other one then? And its unlikely that i will use a wave serpent cause then i have to buy one!
I wouldn't mind have combat tank killers, but what would you say to singing spears? that str 9 attack from 10 models should do nicely, although suffers from the problem the rest of the army has... its too slow.
i agree with the RoW. i'll change that. is the warding worth it? for the moment i'll just be playing my cousin and learning the rules of 5th ed (i haven't played properly since 3rd ed) and he plays chaos. i pretty much know what he will field cause he basically only has what we gave him, so i know there's no psychic powers and big tanks coming my way. having said that hes only young so i don't want to slaughter him every battle. i also hope to find some clubs near me in Southampton to play this list with... but we'll see about that...
the guardians; can I 'cast' guide when I'm in combat on a unit not? in that cause the missile launcher and guide might be a good idea.
is it worth putting a wraithlord in with two tank killing weapons? is twin linked bright lances better than one with a missile launcher? personally I seem to think the cost of 2 for twin linked is over the top!
i was thinking about a warlock with the guardians, but wanted to keep them cheap... 1ks not many points to fit all this in... is it worth just taking 5 warlocks in the council, and increasing it to 10 in 1.5k? I'm not sure how many points I'm going to be playing but since my cousin has just about/under 1.5k i thought 1k would give him a chance to make some different lists and see how they pan out. his birthdays coming up and we've got him the new rule book, but i guess his parents might get him some more units, so 1.5k might be on the cards...
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Zakath the slaughterer
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Runes of Warding are excellent. When you first look at it, it doesn't look too impressive on paper... But the average roll for 3 dice is 10.5 which means that even if you are facing a LD10 psyker, he will fail a bit over 50% of his rolls! And suffer Perils oh so often
I hear you on the twin-linked thing! I'd never give Wraithlord anything TL, one ML should do and depending on what you're going to face, Wraithsword.
Singing Spears have the problem that they're two handed weapons Also, if you throw them, you can't use Psychic Powers since they're both shooting... I wouldn't take them.
On the Seer Council size, I dare not say. I have never used Warlocks as a retinue so I'm not sure how they'd perform.
Apologies for the random answer, this came out very confusingly
I hear you on the twin-linked thing! I'd never give Wraithlord anything TL, one ML should do and depending on what you're going to face, Wraithsword.
Unless otherwise noted, Psychic Powers count as shooting so you can't use them in CC.can I 'cast' guide when I'm in combat on a unit not?
Singing Spears have the problem that they're two handed weapons
Also, if you throw them, you can't use Psychic Powers since they're both shooting... I wouldn't take them. Well IMO Doom is one of the most powerful spells in Eldar arsenal so if I were you, I'd go very far to keep it in the list. Especially since you also have Pathfinders and Banshees which both benefit from it greatly.Losing one farseer might have to happen then.. should i give doom to the other one then?
On the Seer Council size, I dare not say. I have never used Warlocks as a retinue so I'm not sure how they'd perform.
Apologies for the random answer, this came out very confusingly
Master of puppets I'm pulling your strings/
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams/
Blinded by me, you cant see a thing/
Just call my name, `cause Ill hear you scream
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams/
Blinded by me, you cant see a thing/
Just call my name, `cause Ill hear you scream
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Mr_piechee
- Malekith's Best Friend
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thats fine, my posts often turn into random babel!
If i can't use phsyic powers then i can see singing spears being useless, but i can give them to the warlocks without powers.... i'll leave guide out as well, since i want to get the unit into combat as much as possible. i'll have a little play with the points and post another list later... i think i might have to cut the unit down, but with only one attack i think the number of models make all the difference.
{edit: here it is:
Farseer 165pts - Doom, Fortune, mind war, Runes of warding, spirit stone
6 Warlock body guards 200 + 20 pts
Embolden, Enhance
5 pathfinders 120pts
10 Guardians 100pts - Eldar missile launcher
8 Howling Banshees 139pts - Exarch, Executioner, War shout
7 Striking Scorpions 139pts - Exarch, Scorpions claw
Wraithlord 140pts - Wraithsword, brightlance
989 pts 37 models, 1 platform, 1 large model.
I'm not really sure about the lessening number of warlocks, although i suppose that in a 1k game i can't expect to have to many.
If i can't use phsyic powers then i can see singing spears being useless, but i can give them to the warlocks without powers.... i'll leave guide out as well, since i want to get the unit into combat as much as possible. i'll have a little play with the points and post another list later... i think i might have to cut the unit down, but with only one attack i think the number of models make all the difference.
{edit: here it is:
Farseer 165pts - Doom, Fortune, mind war, Runes of warding, spirit stone
6 Warlock body guards 200 + 20 pts
Embolden, Enhance
5 pathfinders 120pts
10 Guardians 100pts - Eldar missile launcher
8 Howling Banshees 139pts - Exarch, Executioner, War shout
7 Striking Scorpions 139pts - Exarch, Scorpions claw
Wraithlord 140pts - Wraithsword, brightlance
989 pts 37 models, 1 platform, 1 large model.
I'm not really sure about the lessening number of warlocks, although i suppose that in a 1k game i can't expect to have to many.
Last edited by Mr_piechee on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[hope you don't mind my random babel] ~ Take a look to the sky just before you die, its the last time you will ~ my pics
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Mr_piechee
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another question; is Fortune worth it? since most the time you don't get any saves anyway as eldar?
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Knightsaber
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Fortune is most definitely worth it. It is good for rerolling your 3+ saves on wraithlords, scorpions, and bikes. It is also useful for rerolling cover saves. However, it is great for rerolling the invulnerable saves on your warlock units. It makes them an extremely resilient unit against both shooting and close combat. I would not field warlock units without fortune to back them up.
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Zakath the slaughterer
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I'm sorry about the late reply, I haven't been able to get online for a few days.
Fortune is indeed very nice on a Warlock bodyguard, makes them all but invulnerable
About the Warlocks twindling.. 6+Farseer is IMO a worthy Seer Council in 1k
I think the list looks fine, not the fastest Eldar list around but definitely has tricks and survivability! Maybe you should recalculate your points though, I seem to get 1034 when adding up your units The Banshees? I think they're 150pts. rather than 139...
Fortune is indeed very nice on a Warlock bodyguard, makes them all but invulnerable
About the Warlocks twindling.. 6+Farseer is IMO a worthy Seer Council in 1k
I think the list looks fine, not the fastest Eldar list around but definitely has tricks and survivability! Maybe you should recalculate your points though, I seem to get 1034 when adding up your units
The Banshees? I think they're 150pts. rather than 139...Master of puppets I'm pulling your strings/
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams/
Blinded by me, you cant see a thing/
Just call my name, `cause Ill hear you scream
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams/
Blinded by me, you cant see a thing/
Just call my name, `cause Ill hear you scream
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Mr_piechee
- Malekith's Best Friend
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Farseer 165pts - Doom, Fortune, mind war, Runes of warding, spirit stone
6 Warlock body guards 150 + 20 pts
Embolden, Enhance
5 pathfinders 120pts
10 Guardians 105pts - Starcannon
8 Howling Banshees 155pts - Exarch, Executioner, War shout
7 Striking Scorpions 139pts - Exarch, Scorpions claw
Wraithlord 140pts - Wraithsword, brightlance
994 pts 37 models, 1 platform, 1 large model.
Banshees have been corrected. looks like i worked it out right just didn't change the points. the warlocks were 200 instead of 150 so that's what took it over the points limit. 4 points left, i could lose a banshee and give the SS Shadowstrike...
Its looking like a nice list now, i'll give it a few games to see what its like.
(i want to do something similar with a jet bike mounted seer council. new thread or carry on here? Afterwards we can compare them... i think in 1k this list will be allot better because jebikes are just too costly for 1k. we'll have to see)
6 Warlock body guards 150 + 20 pts
Embolden, Enhance
5 pathfinders 120pts
10 Guardians 105pts - Starcannon
8 Howling Banshees 155pts - Exarch, Executioner, War shout
7 Striking Scorpions 139pts - Exarch, Scorpions claw
Wraithlord 140pts - Wraithsword, brightlance
994 pts 37 models, 1 platform, 1 large model.
Banshees have been corrected. looks like i worked it out right just didn't change the points. the warlocks were 200 instead of 150 so that's what took it over the points limit. 4 points left, i could lose a banshee and give the SS Shadowstrike...
Its looking like a nice list now, i'll give it a few games to see what its like.
(i want to do something similar with a jet bike mounted seer council. new thread or carry on here? Afterwards we can compare them... i think in 1k this list will be allot better because jebikes are just too costly for 1k. we'll have to see)
[hope you don't mind my random babel] ~ Take a look to the sky just before you die, its the last time you will ~ my pics
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Sarcon
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Mr_PieChee wrote:Farseer 165pts - Doom, Fortune, mind war, Runes of warding, spirit stone
6 Warlock body guards 150 + 20 pts
Embolden, Enhance
How about letting him walk in a unit of wraith guard? Wraitguard are very tough. Warlocks are expensive and die easily.
Mr_PieChee wrote:5 pathfinders 120pts
No comment
Mr_PieChee wrote:10 Guardians 105pts - Starcannon
The starcannon is expensive and has only two shots. I personally prefer the scatter laser/EML.
Mr_PieChee wrote:8 Howling Banshees 155pts - Exarch, Executioner, War shout
No comment.
Mr_PieChee wrote:7 Striking Scorpions 139pts - Exarch, Scorpions claw
You really want these guys to infiltrate. Apart from that no comment.
Mr_PieChee wrote:Wraithlord 140pts - Wraithsword, brightlance
Do you think the wraitsword is worth it? So you can reroll to hit the 2/3 attacks you have? I would go for an EML+Brightlance.
Hope I've been some help
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Zakath the slaughterer
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Wraithguard just hate missile launchers. Which happen to the most popular big gun around. Fortuned Warlocks survive 75% of the krak missiles sent their way while Wraithguard die to them as easily as Guardians.How about letting him walk in a unit of wraith guard? Wraitguard are very tough. Warlocks are expensive and die easily.
Master of puppets I'm pulling your strings/
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams/
Blinded by me, you cant see a thing/
Just call my name, `cause Ill hear you scream
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams/
Blinded by me, you cant see a thing/
Just call my name, `cause Ill hear you scream
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Mr_piechee
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i agree with the SS, i'll need to find a way to get those points in... star cannons are great, but are let down with a BS 3. having said that, when they hit there great!
As for the wraith guard, i never hear good things about them, and it kinda defeats the point of the army, since it wouldn't be a seer council lead army, if there's only a seer!
should i trade the wraithlord for some walkers, since i don't have a spirit seer? or put a spirit seer in?
ok, heres a slight change to the list... shall i lose a power on the farseer in favour of another Banshee? i'm 3 pts over... i could only have one weapon on the lord?
Farseer 165pts - Doom, Fortune, mind war, Runes of warding, spirit stone
6 Warlock body guards 150 + 20 pts
Embolden, Enhance
5 pathfinders 120pts
10 Guardians 105pts - Scatter laser
7 Howling Banshees 155pts - Exarch, Executioner, War shout
7 Striking Scorpions 139pts - Exarch, Scorpions claw, shadow strike
Wraithlord 140pts - missile launcher, brightlance
1003 pts 36 models, 1 platform, 1 large model.
two walkers with 2 eml's and 2 sl's are cheaper than the wraithlord... without a spirit seer i think prob the better option...
As for the wraith guard, i never hear good things about them, and it kinda defeats the point of the army, since it wouldn't be a seer council lead army, if there's only a seer!
should i trade the wraithlord for some walkers, since i don't have a spirit seer? or put a spirit seer in?
ok, heres a slight change to the list... shall i lose a power on the farseer in favour of another Banshee? i'm 3 pts over... i could only have one weapon on the lord?
Farseer 165pts - Doom, Fortune, mind war, Runes of warding, spirit stone
6 Warlock body guards 150 + 20 pts
Embolden, Enhance
5 pathfinders 120pts
10 Guardians 105pts - Scatter laser
7 Howling Banshees 155pts - Exarch, Executioner, War shout
7 Striking Scorpions 139pts - Exarch, Scorpions claw, shadow strike
Wraithlord 140pts - missile launcher, brightlance
1003 pts 36 models, 1 platform, 1 large model.
two walkers with 2 eml's and 2 sl's are cheaper than the wraithlord... without a spirit seer i think prob the better option...
[hope you don't mind my random babel] ~ Take a look to the sky just before you die, its the last time you will ~ my pics