Eldar or Necrons?

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Kolfrosta
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Eldar or Necrons?

Post by Kolfrosta »

Yeah, this is one of those “which army should I choose?” topics so I will go ahead and state that I am having a hard time deciding between starting a Necron or an Eldar army. I play Beasts of Chaos in Warhammer but I have never played 40k. However, I have watched plenty of 40k games at my local GW and some actually involved Necrons and Eldar (although 90% of the games had Space Marines as one…or both… of the armies).

The thing I like about both armies is that they can be mobile and they hit hard. The Eldar utilize a variety of Jetbikes to achieve this strategy but their armor is weak. The Necrons are certainly tough and their Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers are very good but they actually seem harder to play effectively than the Eldar because of their low numbers and the phase out rule (which almost forces the Necron player to have 30 Warriors slogging it on foot in a 1,500 point game). Anyway, I do intend to shape the army that I select to be an extremely aggressive and mobile attack force.

So the question remains… which one to choose? Many local 40k players I have spoken with regard the Necrons as a “beginner’s” army that does not require a lot of tactics to do well with but the Necrons seem to lose more games than win. On the other hand, the Eldar seem like a solid choice since they have Jetbikes as Troops but their low armor gets ripped apart by the average Space Marine (and there are a lot of Space Marine armies out there). Of course the armor save of their Jetbikes is a lot better than their average foot soldier and, since I can have Jetbikes as troops, armor might not be a problem. On a side note, I actually like the terminator look of the Necrons more than the exotic armor of the Eldar but, on the flip side, I really do like the look of the Eldar Jetbikes.

For the record, I have considered Dark Eldar but I dislike their current model range (and the fact that their Codex is still from the second edition). If Games Workshop gives them a new Codex and a model range that I like then I might consider them.

Please comment! :)
Last edited by Kolfrosta on Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Rork »

Necrons tend to be decidedly one-dimensional. I think I'd wait for a redo before starting them, right now they're pretty stale and lack variety.

Eldar have a lot going for them. There's a good amount of variety available (some might say too much) with a large amount of army builds. They reward a careful player who tries to make his units work in unison towards a common goal.

If you want the terminator look and Eldar, take Dark Reapers ;).
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Post by Kolfrosta »

Thanks for the quick reply :)

The Necrons do seem rather limited. I was glancing at their Codex the other day and their gear option on their troops was pretty much “Disruption Fields: Yes or No?” The Phase Out rule and the fact that Warriors are their only troop type also limits what they can do with their list. I did see one Necron army do some very impressive and cunning things with Monoliths and teleportation though.

The Eldar really do seem spoiled in variety. I have seen them range from highly mobile armies (like the one I am thinking of) to more defensive, infantry based armies. I will have to look into the Dark Reapers ;)

Does anyone have any other comments? I guess Necrons are regarded as a “beginner’s” army simply because they do lack variety right now.
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Post by Tordeck »

Dark Eldar are on the horizon so if your willing to wiat a year then go DE. Crons are in need of an update but it wont happen till after DE and Space Wolves get taken care of.

As for actual play Crons dont have many choices but the units they do have are quite nice at what they do. They are hard as nails if played right, in 5th phase out is less likly as you will automatically be wanting to bring more warriors with you.

Eldar are fast and deadly but very fagile. They useally have the numbers on most MEQ armies but they die real quick. They are vastly more versitile then Crons and there are more posssible army lists as there are so many more types of units.

Ive played against and as both and I really like some of what Crons can do but they are just too beatable. Eldar are much better at holding their own on the table top.

Fluff wise they are both great choices (and they play off of each other) if you are looking for a strickly fluffy army. I must say that Eldar do have a bit of an edge.

The biggest differance in gameplay between Crons and Eldar is that with Crons there are two types of army you can play, horde (lots of warriors) gun line or non horde (more fast attack and heavy slots used) mobile gun line. With Eldar there are a few more possibilites, simply because of the sheer number of differant choices available. you can go gunline, horde, fast, or CC specific lists or a balanced list using all those componants.

Eldar also have better models IMO.

Though I am a DE player, I must suggest you play the elves over the andriods.
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Post by Lidlesspraetor »

tordeck wrote:Dark Eldar are on the horizon so if your willing to wiat a year then go DE. Crons are in need of an update but it wont happen till after DE and Space Wolves get taken care of.


Bell of Lost Souls has been a very reliable blog for updates and stuff, and according to them, the release plan for Q2 next year is IG first. Then at Q3-Q4 it is DE and Necron (not sure which one first). They say that Wolves is Q4 of this year.

tordeck wrote:Ive played against and as both and I really like some of what Crons can do but they are just too beatable. Eldar are much better at holding their own on the table top..


I can't disagree more... the Necron monolith has got to be the hardest vehicle to destroy, bar none. The only edge that eldar have imho is the Wraithlord, and maybe the Avatar. I play both guard and DA, and I have to say that necron are a whole lot harder to kill than eldar.

Back on subject tho, I would say wait til next year's 'dex update for the necron before deciding. As it is currently, I would say that necrons are a much easier army to field. Too much of what the eldar do require precise timing and tactics, whereas the high armor and We'll be Back for the necrons will give you a safety net to compensate for bad tactics. BTW, I used to play eldar and I dropped them in 5th edition. I think out of all the armies, they got screwed the most, b/c they're not really any faster moving than other armies, since other armies can march move. Though I must admit, marching wraithlords with avatar is deadly...

Hope this helped, and goodluck choosing.
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Post by Kolfrosta »

Thanks for the additional feedback :D

I never thought about it but I suppose the new “run” rule will reduce the effectiveness of the strategy I am thinking of for both races. The other thing worth mentioning (after looking at some prices) is that it will require a lot of cash to actually create an all jet-bike Eldar army :x

GW does have an Eldar army set that utilizes two squads of mechanized Infantry in Wave Serpents and three Falcon Grav Tanks. I have only seen Eldar players field, at most, one Falcon. Would they be at all effective en masse considering their low armor?
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Post by Akimoto »

I don't know why people think eldar are so soft and squishy... ok toughness isn't exactly a high point, but with the exception of guardians everyone has a 4+ save or better.

and the eldar mech force was extremely effective in the last edition of the rules, falcons were some of the sturdiest tanks imo, even with frontage 12, upgraded right they could withstand a beating, in battle against my mates IG
one of mine survived 19 lascannon shots.

However, i havent had a chance to play my army in the new edition of the rules, and from what i have heard the mech force has been brought down a peg or two. best bet would be to have a look on 40konline or something, they have a decent look at all the 40k armies i believe.
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Post by Aspiring executioner »

Woah, hold your horses, the mech armies got a considerable power-up with vehicles a lot harder to kill and squads no longer get entangled when a transport is destroyed. The problem with en masse Falcons are their cost, when fully kitted-out they can get up to 200 or so points each. Also Dark Eldar actually have a 3rd Ed codex not 2nd as you said, the Second Edition stamp confuses a lot of people as it actually means the second version of the third ed codex, similar to the Druchii revision in 6th Ed. Eldar armies as said have a lot more variety and require a bit more skill to use than say Space Marines. If you don't really want to wait for Necrons or DE to be redone then go with Eldar.

I personally believe Necrons to need the same level of skill to use an army such as Witch or Daemonhunters as you need to deal with not a lot of anti-tank weapons which only Heavy Destroyers and Monoliths can do at range and anything with a Warscythe. You also need to deal with Phase-Out and full squads with power weapons such as Terminators or Howling Banshees as they will just drop Necrons left, right and centre unless you have a resurrection orb nearby. They are not the hardest army to play but they are certainly not a 'beginner's' army.
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Post by Arhain cynath »

I play both and here is my comment:

Eldars: good variety of units and rules, you are able to managed Shooting Phase and/Combat Phase/Psychic powers. Models are beautifull!

Necrons: Terminator style, original models, good firepower, no psykers, few Close combat-efficient units.

So what do you want to play? If you are tempted by shooting, go for Necrons, if you want to be more balanced go for Eldars. I play Ulthwé-style eldars and I find them really interesting to play. Necrons are more simple to me BUT close combat may be your flaw (I often play 8 Flayed Ones and 3 Wraith with Destroyer Lord and they are not enough...)
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Post by Kolfrosta »

Thanks for the additional comments. That is rather confusing with the Dark Eldar Codex (second edition of second edition…). Anyway, few numbers are naturally one of the flaws of a Tank Heavy army so I will keep that in mind. Maybe I can figure out an economical way of combining both Grav Tanks with Jetbikes into a competitive force.

I always had my doubts about the claim that Necrons are a "beginner’s" army. As I said, they seem to lose a lot from the games I have watched and their close combat abilities are extremely poor… especially now that they can be run down and denied their WBB rule.

Well I find myself leaning toward the Eldar. I just need to get the Codex and crunch the numbers. On a side note but Space Marines really do seem to have gotten a “buff” in their new Codex and 5th edition. The Space Marines are the solid victors in the majority of games I have watched where one of the players was not fielding a Space Marine army as well. Is this pretty standard in 40k?
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Post by Darkened sun »

Yazan, I have both armies and I would say go for: Eldar.

One of the reasons is that Necrons are getting a new Codex late next year, which is still a while away, so it is not worthwhile starting them up when they are going to be getting models and rules. DE are also getting a new Codex around that time so you could probably reconsider either of them at that future point.

In the mean time, I think Eldar will suit you best as a Druchii player (Eldar = Elves, clearly). They are easily one of the most powerful armies out there (specifically, Mech Eldar). Consider taking 2 units of 10 shooty Dire Avengers (Exarch with dual Shuriken Catapults + Bladestorm) in Wave Serpents (called 'The Serpent of Fury,' a better version of the Tau's 'Fish of Fury'). Each will give you 27 BS4 shots and 5BS 5 shots every other turn. The turns that they are reloading, put them back in the Wave Serpent and move them around. Doom them with a Farseer and you really can't go wrong. Add to that a unit of Pathfinders to hold close objectives and a unit of Jetbikes to grab far away ones, and you really all set. That is my advice for Troops choices. I would be inclined to avoid Guardians as they are somewhat obsolete; the other 3 choices I have mentioned specialize better in their tasks.

To sum it up, the Eldar are the best army for any one thing, be it shooting, speed/maneuverability and combat. However, they are highly expensive and very fragile, so you have to use them well for them to be effective. Ultimately, you could say that they are the opposite in style to a crude, footslogging horde army like Orks or Tyranids.
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Re: Eldar or Necrons?

Post by Emperorpenguin »

Yazan wrote:For the record, I have considered Dark Eldar but I dislike their current model range (and the fact that their Codex is still from the second edition).! :)


That's a common misperception! It's a 3rd edition codex but was the second version of that codex to be released (along with Dark Angels). The "Second Edition" stamp means it is the revised codex.
There were no dark Eldar in 2nd edition!

And finally I too vote Eldar. Don't do Space Marines for certain! There are too many Marine armies. Necrons are as stated somewhat boring. Eldar give you many different styles.

There are 5 major craftworld "templates" you can follow too. You can go guardian and psyker heavy "Ulthwe", aspect warrior and Avatar "Biel-Tan", Rangers and War Walkers "Alaitoc", Wraithlords and Wraithguard "Iyanden" or the one I feel you may like best the jetbikes of "Saim-Hann"
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Post by Kolfrosta »

Yeah, I realized that I made a mistake about the status of the Dark Eldar Codex :?

Well there seems to be a lot of support for the Eldar and I must admit that having Jetbikes as a troop option is very nice. If I theme the army then I will definitely do the Saim-Hann craft world (red and black is a good color scheme too). I still need to get the Eldar codex before I can commit to the army though.

I will definitely not do a Space Marines Army simply because there are so many out there (I have seen this first hand.) It is a tad troubling that they seem to win so much but that will just make them all the more enjoyable to beat.

Thanks again for all the replies :)
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Post by Oscar1492 »

I have a 1500 pt necron force
it has;

The Nightbringer
Necron Lord
6 Pariahs
20 warriors
3 Wraiths
3Destroyers
5 Scarabs

i have found that this a champion force that can best any foe 1 on 1

even though it has limited choices the choices that it has are almost indestructeble. The 3 wraiths deal out 12 S6 attacks on the charge which can tear almost anything down seeing as they are I6.

And dont get me started on the nightbringer. he has only ever died once in all my battles and that was at the hands of the eldar.

but still the necrons have become stale and the eldar are a great looking army. If you want a quick flashy razzle dazzle army that hits hard and fast eldar are the way.

BUT! if you want an army that can take the most amount of punishment out of all 40K armies (and dish it back at 'em) necrons are the best choice.

Let the red harvest begin! :twisted:
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Post by Arquinsiel »

LidlessPraetor wrote:I can't disagree more... the Necron monolith has got to be the hardest vehicle to destroy, bar none.
Not true, it's the only tank in the game you can kill with lasgun fire.
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Post by Oscar1492 »

how can you kill it with lasgun fire???

thats crazy AV14 on all sides how does a s3 lasgun hurt it?
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Post by Zakath the slaughterer »

I guess, in true Arquinsiel style, he means that when you use those lasguns to kill the Necrons, Monolith goes poof too. :roll:
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Post by Oscar1492 »

ow i get it now

technically lasguns dont kill the monolith the stupid phase out rule does. it is the worst rule to ever be created for any army in either 40k or fantasy

P.S i just finished playing a game of 40k with my necons versing eldar. the battle was going swell until i realised i had 2 more guys till phase out
took effect and realised that i shouldn't have charged dire avengers with my warriors. this lost me the game and the campaign.
DAMN PHASE OUT!!!!
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Post by Zardock »

ow i get it now

technically lasguns dont kill the monolith the stupid phase out rule does. it is the worst rule to ever be created for any army in either 40k or fantasy

P.S i just finished playing a game of 40k with my necons versing eldar. the battle was going swell until i realised i had 2 more guys till phase out
took effect and realised that i shouldn't have charged dire avengers with my warriors. this lost me the game and the campaign.
DAMN PHASE OUT!!!!


Sounds to me that your complaining about a rule that balances your army from being unstoppable. Please remember that you have a 4+ save that brings your guys back from the dead. An affective regenerate roll so to speak.

Phase out is the reason I don't play necrons but it's there to add a tactical method to your playing. You constantly have to evaluate the situation and perhaps take risks that can make or break your game.

If your so worried about phase out perhaps take more models with the 'necron' special rule instead of the nightbringer and other units that are taking away from your total necron count.

Anyway, to the question at hand, so that this post is not off topic. The necrons are, imo and in others a bland army. Eldar being the complete opposite I also say go for it with the Eldar.
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Post by Oscar1492 »

yer if i chose again id probably choose eldar as well
theres just not enough variety in the necron force
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