Trying to like 40k (mostly rant but looking for suggestions)

Kefka · Post by **Kefka** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:11 am

it's been eight years since I started 40k, an on-again off-again relationship that pretty much depended on my friends bugging me to play (I got overzealous a few times, but was pretty bored most of the time).
It's not that I hate 40k, I just can't seem to get as excited about it since I started fantasy almost 2 years ago. None of the armies excite me like they used too. I had at least a paint scheme or two laid out for every army, not I don't even know what to paint the armies I do have.
I've got 3 armies teed up for my next projects, but their all fantasy armies, but it's hard to get a game in when all my friends are roaring about the new 40k rules (and space marines, everyone and their grandma plays space marines and wants to try them out!)
I'll go through what armies I do have and why I seem to have lost love for them.

Space marines: almost everyones first 40k army. it's hard to go to a game night or tournament and not see at least 1 of these on the playing field. on the plus side their army list is so versatile it's rarely the same list twice, but the problem is that I don't know where to start, or how to advance what I already have (and the new rulebooks always make one or two of my old units obsolete)

Dark Eldar: I love this army, mostly because its so rare to see that no one expects in. but the models are far behind in quality, and the army is rather fragile (there are only three lists that are used, and they rely on going first). With rumors of a new book within the next year (make that two) I might pick them up, but only if the list is good, I really don't need more models (I'm inching close to 10,000 points, YA for people selling old armies and GW auctions!)

Necrons: These guys are just plain boring. The only alterations in lists are how many monoliths, or how many flayed ones. And the models are rather static (well, they are supposed to be i guess...) Again, with a new book on the horizon they may get to see the light of day again, but after painting 4000 points worth for a friend it's not really worth it.

Chaos marines/daemons: I really wanted to do this army, I really did. Word Bearers all the way, then the new codex came out a month after I started the army and my list was shattered. GW was telling me to go either daemons or Marines, but I wanted both at the same time (too greedy of me?) As a result, I don't like either army. I may turn my old marines into Malal followers, since it's the only chaos fluff I like right now.

So there is my rant on my 40k armies and why I don't play anymore. I really do want to play more 40k, but the problem lies with the armies being to boring for me.
I guess I'm asking for suggestions on what army I should do next that may interest me. I've been thinking over Sisters (again because of their obscurity and lack of representation) or picking up Chaos again, but I'm not 100% sure on what to play.

Loki7045 · Post by **Loki7045** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:46 am

I think you need to look at the back ground of a army, with the new space marine army there is allot of back ground fluff which makes great reading. Theme the army is the best way to get in to wanting to play with it, for warhammer i have a few themed armies and they are the ones i have the most fun with, a full night goblin army not a orc in site and a empire army made solely of Reiksguard knights with kurt helborg leading. For 40k i have a commando ork snake bite army with 3 units of 10 commandos one with snickrot in. I pick a theme and build the army around it and it makes playing great fun .

Neferata · Post by **Neferata** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:13 pm

I agree with loki. Another thought, if you wanted to play chaos/daemons is to play apocalypse. Then you can use both armies, you could also ask your friends if you could use some old Word Bearer equipment/(rules?) from the old book: they'll say it's all good

. If you don't play apocalypse, you'll haveto use the same rules for all the daemons and perhaps take similar equipment, but it would still work I think

. Don't let the codex ruin the army for you. Talk with your friends about it and ask them if you could make an exception. It's not such a big deal if it would inspire you to start playing again

.

N.

Kefka · Post by **Kefka** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:06 pm

Thanks guys
the fluff is part of the reasons I'm having trouble liking 40k, The three armies I'm making for fantasy are all fluff armies, but I can't think of anything good for 40k stuff (so far my best army fluff was for my joke marines a few years back).
I may look at picking up chaos again (just wish I didn't sell all my marines two weeks ago....)

Eeeeron · Post by **Eeeeron** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:15 pm

What sort of thing are you looking for in the fluff?

You've got the mysterious Eldar with Harlequins if you want to start as a link from your Dark Eldar army first. There is so much fluff for Chaos in all it's forms.

Post by **Layne** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:21 pm

Pteh. 40k. Pteh. Let it go I say. Make your friends play Fantasy, nut em with a two-bladed Cathayan Longsword if you have to, but make em play Fantasy.

Pteh.

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:56 pm

I can understand. I play Sisters, and I often find 40K to be pretty frustrating. My opponents are all Orks or Space Marines, which are not good match-ups when you have an out-of-date book. It feels like a game is just comparing lists: if they field x, y or z I automatically lose, but if they us list a, b or c I automatically win.

Sisters are, without a doubt, the only army I like the look of in 40K. I love the look of most of the Fantasy Battle armies, even ones I would never consider playing, but 40K tends to look pretty bland. The sea of Space Marines only makes this worse, but even the other armies do not inspire me. Well, Kroot look awesome, but I hate Tau suits.

The fluff is very much `love it or loathe it'. I found the new Space Marine book an embarrassment to read, but they are somehow the most popular by a long-shot. I find most of the armies to have very bland fluff, but I do like what they have for Orks, and the little they have for Sisters.

The trouble with 40K, in my mind, is the Space Marines. The game revolves around them, which ruins the potential of all the other armies. It makes the game far more narrow and bland; besides, when literally half the codeci are some form of Space Marine, it means that playing any other army means you are at a massive disadvantage in terms of rule and miniature updates. Even Chaos Space Marines take it pretty hard in that way, though with Jervis announcing plans to split out the variant chapters from that book this could change (and make all the non-Space Marine armies even worse!).

Despite all this, I still somehow love my Sisters. Almost all the miniatures are from second edition, and practically every newer unit in the book is worthless (over-priced, under-powered and ruined by bad special rules), but I still like taking these fanatics out to attempt to burn as many of their models as possible before an auto-win model gets too close (unfortunately, that usually happens in turn two).

Gibious · Post by **Gibious** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:07 pm

Yes SM do tend to dominate, or at least feel like their everywhere. DM and WH may not be but sure do give similer presence.

IMO fantasy does get it a bit with Chaos. But is being kept in check regulary (i.e. removing COS)

Maybe one day theys fix it

Deadlydeception · Post by **Deadlydeception** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:41 am

Well, I agree that there is a little too much space marine in 40k, but as a consequence of this that army has reams of awesome background info.

You can probably make almost any army imaginable with the space marine codex. I play a fully mechanized dark angel army, my brother plays the all jump infantry blood angels with two death company furiosos. I have friends with ultramarine hoard infantry lists (well, not quite hoard lists I guess..), assault oriented space wolves, and even a techmarine led army.

I played imperial guard for a while and hated the overabundance of marines, but then I learned the central theory of 40k. If you can't beat them, join them

Aspiring executioner · Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:57 am

Bah, Sisters of Battle are currently the reigning Champions of my store. The guy who plays them has only lost twice in 3 years with the same list give or take one or two units. Necrons and Eldar were the two armies that have beaten his army. As others have said, you can do just about anything with SM or even with CSM or Eldar although maybe not as much as SM. Pick up the 5th edition hardback rulebook if you don't already have it and just read all the fluff in it, there's heaps and heaps. If still uninspired then take a look at some BL novels, they might spark up your imagination a bit.

You could just base an army entirely because of its looks if you wanted to. Hope i've got some ideas bouncing around. Good luck.

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:44 pm

There is a lot of uniformity to 40k, with marnes/csm being 70% of the armies about, but the new rules are fun and some armies are too.

I started with tyranid, still play them and have a great time painting, converting and playing them.

SOBs have a lot of potential for conversions and can be very effective with their faith points, but are an expensive army due to all the metal.

Demetrius · Post by **Demetrius** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:51 pm

I agree, every man and his dog plays bloody SMs where I come from. The problem is that SMs are almost every noobs starting army because of starter kits and cool armour. Especially with the new Codex, SM players are everywhere.

I play Chaos. Yes same basics but much cooler army IMO.

SoB... Theres two players in my club who uses them, one doesnt come too often and the other plays Warmachine normally.

Bikeninja- Read Gaunts Ghosts books. They are really inspiring (and I dont play IG) to play 40K

Kargan daemonclaw · Post by **Kargan daemonclaw** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:08 am

You can still do a Word Bearers list and have chaos space mariens and daemons. You can use whatever daemons you want for whatever you want. You just can't use the aligned lesser daemons like you used to.

I agree that the default stat line for 40k is S4 T4 and 3+ save, but even within a marine army there is a huge option for different types of army, loads of infantry is completely different to play to mechanised and vehicle heavy marines heavy tanks are different than loads of bikes and landspeeders.

To decide how to progress the army you need to play some games. Start with a simple army tactical squads devastators assault marines, maybe some terminators etc and experiment from there.

I have seen and used some quite different necron armies over the years. One player used 30 scarab bases, that's very different. I agree there is only one troop choice so your army will always be based around a phalanx of Necron warriors but that's in accordance with the fluff. It's quite possibel to have none formulaic based necron armies.

If you want to get into 40k I would join a 40k group and ask your questions there.

Kefka · Post by **Kefka** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:33 am

Well thanks for all the input everyone.
I've narrowed it down to 2 armies. I might pick-up my chaos again, convert another Malal army to match my fantasy one. Or I'll go with Sisters of Battle, but I would rather wait until a new book came out.

I'm repainting my Dark Eldar AGAIN (I think this will make scheme #4) but I hear nothing but good rumors of them being done by the end of the decade, so I may hold off and keep with my fantasy armies until then (is it sad that I ONLY have to wait MAYBE two more years for my army to get redone, after its been 10?)
I'll see what my mood is after I finish one of them.

Thanks again.

Tich · Post by **Tich** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:43 am

Read Gaunts Ghosts books. They are really inspiring (and I dont play IG) to play 40K

Yeah, I read them and they made me want to collect the guard and I personelly hate the guard.

Joeb · Post by **Joeb** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:05 am

I wouldn't go Dark Eldar unless a new book comes out. Right now they are unsupported, so don't waste your money on an army that just might get squatted.

Sisters have flat out the best models in the whole game. I love those girls. If they ever do a new codex for them I might have to start a sisters army. Until then, the new space marines are better in every way for the same or less points - so what's the point?

I say go chaos because chaos rocks. Ignore the demons and just use the marines. The lesser demons are ok, but then you're not using bloodletters and all that, you're using "lesser demons".

If you really want demons, go ahead and make a whacky deep-striking army with the Demon codex. Don't expect it to win tournaments, but *DO* have fun with the overall weirdness of the army.

However, only do this if the deep-striking part doesn't drive you nuts.

Kefka · Post by **Kefka** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:56 am

Well I'm doing Sisters to tide me over until Dark Eldar are redone. I figure a simple 2000 point list will let me get some good games in for the next few YEARS until DE get a new book/models/back-on-the-shelf.
I chose sisters because they have a great stat-line for their point cost. There are a few expensive choices, but the troops are by far some of the best.
I also like the idea of having so many flamers in my army that, well, I have SO MANY FLAMERS IN MY ARMY! I hope I face a lot of horde armies. And the ability to make them rending flamers, very nice!

Sorine · Post by **Sorine** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:01 am

Kefka, I'll point you to my post in the "Witch hunters and allies" thread here. I'm Copella on Warseer, a veteran Sisters player. Good to hear more people are playing Sisters and Inquisition.

Joeb · Post by **Joeb** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:35 am

See I'm the opposite. I started playing 40k and now I can't focus on any fantasy army long enough to get it started. I even won some Dark Elves stuff but then I got distracted by a cheap Keeper of Secrets. Now I've more or less started a 40k demon army. I don't really like the rules (all deepstriking, etc), but I love my Chaos Marines and they need some demons to go with them.

Some traitor guard as well, but that will have to wait until later.

In the meantime, my Dark Elves sit unassembled, my skaven languish. Heck, even my Warmachine minis are still in blisters.

But I still love those new Warriors of Chaos mini's. Perhaps someday I'll get around to them.

Fr0 · Post by **Fr0** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:59 pm

Joeb wrote:I wouldn't go Dark Eldar unless a new book comes out. Right now they are unsupported, so don't waste your money on an army that just might get squatted.

Dark Eldar are filthy if played correctly.

Joeb wrote:Sisters have flat out the best models in the whole game. I love those girls. If they ever do a new codex for them I might have to start a sisters army.

Completely agree. Their stories are great, their models are great and they're the hottest(only, save Wyches) chicks in space..

Joeb wrote:If you really want demons, go ahead and make a whacky deep-striking army with the Demon codex. Don't expect it to win tournaments, but *DO* have fun with the overall weirdness of the army.

This army is complete bullcrap. It's highly competitive, and if your rolls are good the army is neigh-indestructable. Soul Grinder>Daemon Prince imo.

Joeb · Post by **Joeb** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:47 pm

Fr0 wrote:Dark Eldar are filthy if played correctly.

Yeah, so? The book is OLD. OLD = GW hates that army.

Joeb wrote:If you really want demons, go ahead and make a whacky deep-striking army with the Demon codex. Don't expect it to win tournaments, but *DO* have fun with the overall weirdness of the army.

[/quote="Fro"]
This army is complete bullcrap. It's highly competitive, and if your rolls are good the army is neigh-indestructable. Soul Grinder>Daemon Prince imo.[/quote]

I dunno about that. The weird deployment puts you at the mercy of the dice. And lately I haven't been rolling any hits with the scatter die. It's always 11 inches this way or 8 inches that way.

I agree that the SoulGrinder beats the demon prince. It's way cheaper and harder to kill, especially with the new vehicle damage table.

I wouldn't *mind* the DP if wings didn't almost double the cost of the model. Seriously, wings are good, but they are not worth almost 100 points by themselves.