Witch hunter + indoctorine

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:31 pm

Personally, I would not run two Canonesses --- it becomes a massive faith-point sink. I would also swap the Rosarius for the Cloak of St Aspira. Combined with Spirit of the Martyr, she now has a 2+ Invulnerable, when it is needed. The one with the Evicerator will also want the Mantle of Ophelia, as she faces the greatest risk of Instant Death. The one with the Blessed Weapon will be far less effective independent, so would be better to drop the Jump Pack and put her with a Celestian retinue (now she cannot be targeted in combat), perhaps with an Evicerator on the Veteran Sister Superior so as to have a unit that can almost do assaults properly.

I would think 3-4 Battle Sister squads would suffice, with 2-3 Exorcists (3 is great, but will upset some opponents). I prefer 1 Canoness, but some prefer two. I would then suggest small Celestian squads in Immolators for the Meltaguns. Celestians are slightly more efficient (points-wise) in an anti-tank role. You may or may not like Seraphim. They are not the beasts they were in fourth edition, and never seem to be worth the points to me, but some people still swear by them. Some people also swear by Retributors, but in my experience they are so ineffective that everyone pretends they are not even there. If you are looking for a tournament army, you may also want to consider an allied Daemonhunters Inquisitor (Lord) with shooty retinue and Mystics, so as to chew up Daemons, Drop Guard and Drop Pod Marines.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:29 pm

A guy at the last tournie had 2, land raiders each with termies with thunder hammers and storm shield and 2 predator annilators so 3 exorcists shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the suggestions. Will ponder them.
I only play straight sisters. What do you think of repentia?

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:46 am

I get complaints of cheese for having Battle Sisters at all, but only from Marine players.

Repentia are sadly the worst unit in the game. Every single thing about them is wrong. Low strength, low toughness, low armour assault troops that do not have Fleet, cannot be transported, often cannot be controlled, swing last, only have a chance of making it to combat by killing the only model likely to kill anything (the Mistress), and even then are unlikely to make it. Even if they do, by some miracle, get into combat, the entire unit will be slaughtered before they can swing. There is not a single good point about them. If they were half the cost and swung at initiative, they would still be too weak to take. Repentia are a unit that need to be completely reinvented when they eventually update the Codex.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:22 pm

retributers not worth it compared to a sister squad with the right special weapons?
How do you like to use your seraphim? I really only like small squads, either suicide assault tanks with melta bombs or to contest objectives.

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:50 pm

I want to like Retributors, but I am yet to play a game where they contribute. On average, they are killing one-to-two Ork Boyz a turn/one Marine. I can bump this up to three Orks/two Marines by taking an Immolator with Heavy Bolter and Blessed Ammunition. At 225 points, this is a pretty poor return. Battle Sisters are more efficient. I still try the Retributors from time to time, trying to get them to work in some niche, but it is yet to happen.

Seraphim are another unit I cannot get to work in fifth. I prefer them 7-8 strong with Hand Flamers and an Evicerator (I have no trouble with vehicles, so the Inferno Pistols cannot be justified in my local metagame). Frankly, the best contribution they have ever provided was tieing up a Space Marine Captain for a turn, so the Canoness could take out a Dreadnought first. They are another unit I want to work for me, but they are just far too over-costed.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:56 pm

What about dominions with melta bombs no special weapons or with storm bolter? I have been very intrigued by either of those options.

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:47 am

Sounds bizarre; not something I would have ever bothered trying. For the same cost, you could have loaded them up with Meltaguns, which have a higher chance to take out a vehicle (hitting on 3s rather than 4s or 6s, depending on how far the vehicle moved). They are then also better equipped for secondary targets (eg helping a Battle Sister Squad finish off a unit).

Then again, for less points you could have taken Celestians who have a lower chance of success vs vehicles (two Meltaguns vs four), but are far more cost efficient. Storm Bolters are useless in a mech Sisters list too. They are best left to the Grey Knights, who are equipped to use them properly.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:41 pm

The melta bombs are 4pts per model, 4 melta guns 60pts for dominions. The squad will still have bolters and be faithful. I just thought it might had something.

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:22 pm

With Meltabomns, you will need 10 Dominions (110 + 40) in a Rhino (+50) to have a hope of hitting anything. 200 points.

With Meltaguns, you only need 5 Dominions (55) with four Meltaguns (+60), which you can now stick into an Immolator (+65). Ah, throw a Multi-Melta in while we are at it (+25). 205 points, and several times more likely to destroy a tank.

More to the point, the second option can target two tanks, so is more versatile. Sure, a Multi-Melta Immolator is a fire magnet, and five Dominions will die quickly, but the Meltabomb ones are not much more likely to survive long, yet less likely to hit anything. 200 points of Battle Sisters will kill more infantry, whereas 209 points of Celestians (2 x Melta, Evic. + Book on Vet., Immolator) are as likely to take down a tank.

In early third edition, Battle Sisters could only take a Rhino if they were put into a Fast Attack slot --- this was a `Dominion Squad'. When they restored the transport option to basic Battle Sisters, Andy Hoare ham-fisted extra special weapons onto Dominion Squads rather than dropping or redesigning them properly, as such they do not really fit any role on the battle field that another squad cannot do better. Even Celestians are only good because they allow for easy min-maxing! Dominions are only really worth considering in the Immolator-spam list.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:11 pm

The god old days with my little retributor squads of 4 heavy flamers, one shot heavy flamer item on the vet in an immolator, mmmm burn sista burn.
Or the lovely old redemptionists, anyone need some I have 70!

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:12 pm

Have you ever seen the living saint in action?

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:48 am

I have one, painted her, and never got around to fielding her. Every time I plan to use her, I end up deciding I could put the points to better use elsewhere. On paper, she looks nice, if anti-infantry Seraphim are a major part of your strategy. He is a little better than a Canoness, but a little more expensive, and has a rather painful disadvantage. I will try her one day, but so far I have not found 201 spare points even in Apocalypse games!

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:32 pm

Well I think this is what I will try out. Any comments?

1850 points:

heavy: 2x exorcists 2x 135= 270

troops:

10 sisters with flamer, heavy flamer, vet sister with book of st lucius in an armoured rhino with smoke. 205 points x 6= 1230

hq: cannoness with blessed weapon, cloak, mantle, rosarious, book of stlucius 140 points
celestian body guard x5, vet sis with book of st lucius power weapon, 2x melta guns in armoured immolater with t-linked multi-melta, armoured, smoke 208

2 points left over put search lights on some vehicles

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:55 pm

I think you could use some more anti-tank at 1850. Two exorcists is not bad, but will struggle against even a single Land Raider, and a single unit with Meltaguns has no redundancy. I would suggest 1-2 Elite Celestian Squads with dual-Melta. If you know you are only going to face things like Nids you may be fine, but many other lists will give you trouble.

The Canoness does not need the Mantle if you take a retinue. Just assign instant death wounds to someone else. If you are hit with six strength 10 wounds, you are probably about to lose anyway. The Power Weapon on the Veteran contributes next to nothing, and her Book is redundant due to the being a retinue for the Canoness. An Evicerator could easily be argued for this unit, at 10 points (the Mantle frees up 15, so easily done).

I would also generally not recommend the Multi-Melta on an Immolator. It is great, if it gets near a vehicle, but it is also the biggest Fire Magnet in the army --- most people will ignore even the Exorcists for a turn. This will leave your Canoness and Celestians stranded and unable to contribute for the battle (and likely to die easily).

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:26 am

I have enough melta guns to do ever sister squad double melta.
Book was a carry over from when she was alone with a jump back. I have no modeling ability at this time (lost argument with a table saw) so nothing with an eviserator.

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:38 am

There is no difference between an Evicerator and a Chainsword (just look at the Repentia models: they have Chainswords no matter how you look at it). I am yet to meet a person who will not accept that the Sister Superior with a Chainsword has an Evicerator.

Ladello · Post by **Ladello** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:37 am

does Spirit of the Martyr relay stack with Cloak of saint aspria, it says "normal" armour save and 2+ invs save sounds retard.

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:50 am

Yes, it does stack. Yes, my opponents also dislike my unkillable Flying Nun. One of my first-ever games was against a Marine player who used his tournament list. By the end of turn two, all I had was the Canoness (who he had ignored up to this point). At the end of turn six (and the game), I wish I had a camera. The Canoness was surrounded by around 700 points of Marines and still alive. Between that, and her uncanny nack of intsa-killing ICs and Land Raiders, my opponents hate the Flying Nun and do everything they can to avoid seeing her in action.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:15 pm

do you think taking all double melta gunsister squads would solve the ant-tank issue?

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:35 pm

If you take only Meltaguns, it will cripple your anti-infantry --- a squad with two Flamers is dramatically more effective than one with two Meltaguns. What will you do against a no-vehicle or vehicle-light army? A mix of both is preferable. What you do is personal preference at this point. I prefer to take flamer/heavy flamer and dual-meltas, whereas others prefer to take melta/heavy flamer in every squad. There are good arguments for both, so the real question is: do you want to specialise, or generalise? If you want the optimum anti-tank unit, after the Exorcist, it is Celestians with dual-Meltagun. Adding an Evicerator is even better. I only own two Exorcists, so I have not tried this, but on paper thee Exorcists, a single Celestian Squad and a Flying Nun should handle all the anti-tank you will ever need at 1850... assuming your opponent is not taking the seven Land Raider list.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:09 am

Thanks for all the help.
Going to go ,2x exorcist, flying nun, (how sure are you on normal armour save including the cloak?), celestian dualmelta in immolator with multi melta, 3 sisters squads with flamer, heavy flamer in rhinos and3 sisters squads with 2 melta guns in rhinos.
Thanksssssssss!