Witch hunter + indoctorine

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Ladello
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Witch hunter + indoctorine

Post by Ladello »

When you play as witch hunters you can also use indoctrinate imperial guards, in the WH codex its says "imperial guard infantry platoon", does this mean that I must/can take a IG HQ and 2 squads with guardsmen? and if so does this HQ count towards maximum HQ's.

one more question, does the vindicares assassins turbo penetrator that cause 2 wounds offer 2 saves or just 1 save for both wounds?
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Elric of grans
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Post by Elric of grans »

You take the inducted units exactly as described in their parent codex. In the case of a Platoon, you take a Junior Officer and his squad along with 2-5 infantry squads. The Junior Commander is not a HQ choice; he is a part of the Platoon, and as such a part of the Troops Choice. If he were a HQ, the Imperial Guard would be in a spot of bother: their minimum two troops took up all their HQ slots, and they no longer have any room for more Platoons ;) It is all explained in Codex: Imperial Guard, which you would need if you were to field inducted Guard.

The Turbo Penetrator states that if you wound the model, you cause two wounds. You determine wounds before saves, so if you successfully roll to-wound, you will give them two `saves' to take. Since it is an AP2 weapon, only invulnerable saves are available.
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hum

Post by Ladello »

does this mean i can allocate 1 wound on 1 model and 1 more wound on another? (kill 2 guys with one shot)
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Re: hum

Post by Gnosis »

ladello wrote:does this mean i can allocate 1 wound on 1 model and 1 more wound on another? (kill 2 guys with one shot)

I don't know the answer to that question rules-wise, but it would seem plausible that a high-powered rifle could nail two guys with one standing behind the other.
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Post by Loki »

Elric of Grans wrote:The Turbo Penetrator states that if you wound the model, you cause two wounds. You determine wounds before saves, so if you successfully roll to-wound, you will give them two `saves' to take. Since it is an AP2 weapon, only invulnerable saves are available.


I'm pretty sure that this is wrong. Wounding a model means that you have managed to get past all the saves of that model. The turbo Penetrator works like damage works in Fantasy. After the model has failed their saves, they take extra wounds. Against single wound models, this is useless.
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Ladello
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Post by Ladello »

would be awesome if you could kill two guys, but I think your right, only works on 1 model
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Post by Elric of grans »

Correct, this is a bullet intended to smack multi-wound models, not take out multiple models. The Vindicare will kill, at most, one model per turn.
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Post by Ladello »

one more question; Can I allso include commissars and psykers in my indoctorine IG?
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Post by Elric of grans »

I am not certain on that one, but I believe you need to use allied Guard (distinct from inducted Guard) if you wish to take advisors.

EDIT: Actually, double-checking Codex: Imperial Guard, you would not be able to take them with inducted rules; you would have to take allied Guard.
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Post by Ladello »

but if I take them as allies I lose my immolater =/, well well, I'll just use them as leadership less cannon fodder then, (as my original plan was).
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Post by Elric of grans »

Why do you lose your Immolator? I think you have misread a rule or something. You can take Allied Guard without losing anything from Codex: Witch Hunters.

Leadership is a complete non-issue with Codex: Witch Hunters too. The Book of St Lucius. If you have a few of them floating around, your whole army is Stubborn with Ld9-10. If that is not good enough for you, your standards are too high ;)
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Post by Ladello »

I still don't really understand you. As far as I know there are 2 ways to use other forces then the pure witch hunter codex force.

1: Indoctorine IG or "allied space marine" if you do this you can only have a few units from each codex, (no advisor's).

2: allied witch hunter; but if you do this you lose all heavy support option.

is there a third way the allows me to have Immolaters and advisor's?
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Post by Elric of grans »

There are two ways to take units from multiple Imperial armies:

1) Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters with inducted Imperial Guard or Space Marines. You have access to only a limited list (but as many of them as you can fit in your FOC) of units from Codex: Imperial Guard or Codex: Space Marines. If you take inducted Space Marines you cannot take Grey Knights or Adepta Sorroritas (incl. Immolators) units, but this restriction does not apply to Imperial Guard.

2) An imperial Codex with allies from another army. In this way, you have access to every unit in the Codex, but only a very limited number of these. Again, if you use Codex: Daemonhunters or Codex: Witch Hunters as the parent army and take Space Marine allies, you cannot take Grey Knights or Adepta Sorroritas units, though if you use Codex: Space Marines as the parent army then you can take them as allies. This restriction, again, does not apply to Imperial Guard.

If you play Codex: Witch Hunters with allied Imperial Guard, then you can take anything in Codex: Witch Hunters and a limited number of units (but no restriction on what units) from Codex: Imperial Guard.

As an aside, there is really little, if any, benefit from taking advisors in allied Imperial Guard if you are using Sisters as your base army. In fifth edition, Sisters are practically `broken' in how their leadership works, and if you are playing it right this will carry across to your Platoon(s). Inducted Guard are a far better choice too, as you can put together a stronger army (eg Canoness, Battle Sisters, Armoured Fists, Seraphim, Sentinels, Exorcists and Leman Russes). A Platoon or two does not work well in an otherwise completely mechanised army.
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Post by Ladello »

is it worth it to have a few IG platoons as assault fodder, so in my next shooting face I can shoot the previously assaulting enemy unit with rapid fire AP 1 bolter?
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Post by Loki »

Why would anyone chose to assault the Guard over the Sisters?
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Post by Elric of grans »

Yeah, they would assault the Sisters before the Guard, and this is assuming you somehow have the Sisters and Guard near each other. Since 99% of Sisters players run around in Rhinos, and none of them would be able to even try to bait like this.

Platoons play static. They stand there and offer long-range heavy weapons with lots of ablative wounds. Battle Sisters play highly mobile. Drive-by flamings and melta-blasts, pile out and rapid fire, then pile back in and drive off. The two do not compliment each other well.
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Post by Ladello »

one question, does the "adepta sororita" rule that says you nullifie pyskic power on +5 work on Hive mind powers, like the Psychic scream?

I'm pretty new to the wh40k game and sisters of battle (have played like 2 matches), and I wonder if you can help me with some advice and tactics on how to run them, as for now I have about 30 sisters, 1 canoness, 2 inquisitors + 1 retinue, 10 stormtroopers, 20IG + Full HQ, one immolator + accessories, and one vindicare assassin. And in the near future I'll get an Exorcist.

Please do not double post. Simply edit your previous post to add what you need to say. I've merged the 2 posts.

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Elric of grans
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Post by Elric of grans »

The Shield of Faith rule only works on psyker powers that target one or more units with the Adepta Sororita rule. This means Lash of Submission can be nullified on a 5+, but not really any other powers that are likely to do anything useful --- the rule is two editions old. Psychic Scream should not be an issue for Sisters, as the Book of St Lucius has always nullified it.

The units you have are more Inquisition than Sisters. Personally, I never use Stormtroopers, Guard, Assassins or Inquisitors, so I cannot offer any real advice with them. For the Sisters, you need to get them Rhinos. Foot slogging the Sisters is a strategy few people find works for them; I tried it, and lost every game, but have a dramatically better success rate with Rhinos. You will need a Veteran Sister Superior in every squad, with the Book of St Lucius in at least half your units. Half, because you should always work in at least pairs. Each unit will need some fire: flamers, meltaguns and heavy flamers. Different people have found different things work for them. Some people like to give every squad a flamer and a meltagun, others like to give half their squads a flamer and heavy flamer, and the other half two meltaguns.

The Canoness almost has to take a jump pack, the Cloak of St Aspira and either an evicerator or a blessed weapon (again, different people prefer one or the other). If you take the evicerator, the Mantle of Ophelia is almost obligatory, whereas an inferno pistol is advisable if you take a Blessed Weapon. Exorcists are great; your army will not be the same once you get some. You really need at least two, as they are very unreliable. If you take one, and roll one, it will probably do little; a second gives you an extra set of shots to help in this situation. Hey, if both roll sixes, you are laughing! Some people take three, as there is no other heavy support choice worth using in most lists.

The basic strategy with Sisters is to line up the Rhinos across half the table, then rush towards your opponent's flank. Put two-three units on a single enemy unit at a time and take them off the table in a single shooting phase. The last list I took (and won by massacre with) that is playable with what you have is as follows:

748pts/5 Faith

Canoness
Bolt Pistol
Book of St Lucius
Cloak of St Aspira
Evicerator
Jump Pack
Mantle of Ophelia
131pts

Battle Sisters
Veteran Superior /w Book of St Lucius
7 x Bolter
Flamer
Heavy Flamer
Rhino /w Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers
205pts

Battle Sisters
Veteran Superior /w Book of St Lucius
7 x Bolter
Flamer
Heavy Flamer
Rhino /w Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers
205pts

Battle Sisters
Veteran Superior /w Book of St Lucius
7 x Bolter
2 x Meltagun
Rhino /w Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers
207pts

The Sisters crushed the infantry, while the Canoness took out walkers and ICs. The meltaguns were for vehicles, but the Canoness ended up being the one to take them out too.
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Post by Ladello »

Fast one; to have indoctrinate IG takes up one HQ choice? so fielding one Inq Lord, cannoness and IG is impossible?
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Post by Elric of grans »

You cannot take any IG HQ units with Inducted Guard. You may optionally take a HQ with Allied Guard, but it is entirely optional. You could field an allied Daemonhunters Inquisitor Lord, a Canoness and a whole bunch of Inducted Guard, if you really wanted to.
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Post by Ladello »

A few other questions;

Stats on vindicare sniper; Heavy 1, AP2, hit on 2+ wound 4+, pinning? + 3 special ammo?

or is it Heavy1 AP6, hit on 4+ wound 4+, pinning rending?

A cannoness joined by celestian retinue also hit on 3+?

more questions is probably coming =)
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Post by Elric of grans »

Yeah, the Vindicare is where Games Workshop's FAQ rulings get plain stupid. Everything else in the game they say the Codex over-rides the rule book, but they FAQ that he gets rending from the new Sniper rules. RAW, his gun is Heavy 1, AP2, hit on 2+, wound on a 4+, Rending, Pinning, and three magic bullets.

A Celestian Squad does not confer Holy Hate onto a Canoness, in exactly the same way that Seraphim do not confer Hit and Run on her.
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Post by Greg »

Question on the army list. Why all the books of St. Lucius.
Does anyone bother paying the +20 per squad for the 3d6 roll drop the one of your choice?
I was also contemplating evisorators for my vet. sisters and cannoness, anyone tried that out?
If this is considered thread jumping I apologize and will re-start it.
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Post by Elric of grans »

greg wrote:Why all the books of St. Lucius.


Arguably one of the most broken items in the game. Fearless is not what it used to be; Stubborn is almost as good, but lacks the penalty. Stubborn on a 9 or 10 is insanely good. When you get this for only five points, you have something a little broken. You can get away with the Book on half your units, but at only five points you may as well put it on all, so you can then make use of the Martyrdom rule without worrying which Sister Superiors have the Book. With the Book, Sisters practically ignore all leadership tests (you take them, but rarely fail) and, when combined with Spirit of the Martyr, they are the best tarpits in the game.

greg wrote:Does anyone bother paying the +20 per squad for the 3d6 roll drop the one of your choice?


I assume you refer to Simulacrum Imperialis. No, it is only worth it on Seraphim, who get it for free with their Veteran Sister Superior. I think I fail one roll every six months: you really do not need this item.

greg wrote:I was also contemplating evisorators for my vet. sisters and cannoness, anyone tried that out?


An Evicerator on a Canoness is pretty standard --- either an Evicerator or a Blessed Weapon, depending on your tastes. I always take an Evicerator and my Canoness is the single most feared model on the table, even next to Baneblades and Monstrous Creatures. She has effortlessly killed every IC my opponents field (usually with Instant Death) and regularly chews up Land Raiders. I can control the battle field by merely moving here where I do not want my opponent's hard units to be. On the other hand, an Evicerator on a Veteran Sister Superior is a waste of points (unless you mean Seraphim, when it is pretty well standard). If your Battle Sisters are in close combat, you have already lost, and they hit so rarely that you are wasting your points. If, for some bizarre reason, you want your Battle Sisters to melee a vehicle, just use Hand of the Emperor --- better effect, and free.
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Post by Greg »

I was hinking of this as a list, 1850 points
4 x 10 sister squads, vet, with flamer and heavy flamer in rhino extra armour smoke
2 x 10 sister squads vet, with 2 melta guns in rhino extra armour smoke
3 exorcists
2 cannoness with jump packs, rosarius, one with blessed weapon one with evisirator
everything is pretty bare bones but I get a lot on the table and 10 faith points.
Would it be worth while to scrap one rhino for all the little extras ie book other war gear
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