Never played 40k, IG 1500

[Riker666]

Hail. I never played 40k but I'm looking to start with IG in may with the new codex. This is a random list that I created with the soon to be old codex. I really need comments, since I don't know what I'm doing. It's 75 points over the maximum, but it's still a test list.

HQ

Command Squad: 163

eroic Senior officer, Laspistol+HW, Frag, Carapace Armour, Power Sword, Bionics, trademark Item

Veteran Laspistol+HW, Frag Medic , Carapace Armour
Guard Lasgun Plasma Gun
Guard Lasgun Frag Grenade Launcher
Guard Lasgun Frag Master Vox



Antitank Support Squad : 105

Lascannon
Missile Launcher
Lascannon

Mortar Support Squad: 80

Fire Support Squad : 85
Heavy Bolter
Autocannon
Heavy Bolter

Troop Platoon 1

Command Squad: 93
Junior Officer Laspistol+HW, Frag Carapace Armour, Power Sword, Bionics

Veteran Laspistol+HW, Frag Medic , Carapace Armour

Guard Lasgun Frag,Plasma Gun
Guard Lasgun Frag Grenade Launcher
Guard Lasgun Frag Vox Caster

Infantry Squad : 87
Veteran Sergeant Lasgun Frag
8 Guardsmen Lasgun Frag, Vox Caster
Guardsman Flamer Frag

Infantry Squad : 89
Veteran Sergeant Lasgun Frag
8 Guardsmen Lasgun Frag, Vox Caster
Guardsman Grenade Launcher , Frag

Troop 2:
Armoured Fist Squadron: 176
Veteran Sergeant Laspistol, Frag
8 Guardsmen Lasgun Frag, Vox Caster
Guardsman Meltagun , Frag
CHIMERA (70) Heavy Flamer - Turret , Heavy flamer - hull

Elite:

Ratlings Squad: 55
5 Ratlings

Hardened Veterans: 141
9 Hardened Veterans Frags, Lascannon, Meltagun , Grenade Launcher , Flamer , Vox Caster
Veteran Sergeant Frags , Carapace

Stormtroopers: 146
9 Stormtroopers Plasmagun, 2 Meltagun , frag, krak, hellguns, vox caster, targeters
Sergeant frag, krak, hellpistol, melee weapon, carapace. targeters

Fast Attack:
Hellound: 115 Inferno Cannon

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ +lascannon - hull + pair of heavy bolters , battle cannon: 160

Basilisk: 100

[Lidlesspraetor]

Let me officially welcome you to the Guard! One of the things that I have found with the guard is that lascannons are too expensive. It all comes down to preference, but still, for the cost of 3 lascannons, you can have 5 missiles, assuming you have the people to give them to of course. The maxim for the IG is to decide whatever type(s) of heavy weapons you want, then take as many of them as you can cram in the list. With only 4+ to hit with most guardsmen, you'll need more than usual to dish out what you would expect a MEQ to do.

If you're worried about AV 14 tanks, then do what I do, take a platoon with nothing but meltas and run them at it. I run an all infantry guard list that has 5 ML, 4 meltas + 2 Stormtrooper meltas, plus a 3 autocannon fire support team, 112 miniatures... all at 1000pts. And that's without conscripts.

Another REALLY effective unit for me has been a junior officer squad with 3 flamers. It's only 52points, but they are invaluable for taking out kroot, gaunts, orcs, and other guardsmen. Even against marines, I have had massive success, I even managed to kill 3 termies in one round with that one squad. My regular opponents don't waste any time shooting at that squad, which is fine by me, because every round they shoot at it, is one less shot at someone else lol. I never leave home without that squad, lemme tell ya.

One last note, this is probably all a moot point, because the new IG list is going to be insane with all of the tank options, as well as infantry being dirt cheap, but I hope this helped in some way.

[Arquinsiel]

The easiest way to do this is to quote your list and go through it hilighting the relevant points.

HQ

Command Squad: 163

eroic Senior officer, Laspistol+HW, Frag, Carapace Armour, Power Sword, Bionics, trademark Item

Veteran Laspistol+HW, Frag Medic , Carapace Armour
Guard Lasgun Plasma Gun The guardsman loses his lasgun here.
Guard Lasgun Frag Grenade Launcher Same as above.
Guard Lasgun Frag Master Vox



Antitank Support Squad : 105

Lascannon
Missile Launcher
Lascannon

Mortar Support Squad: 80

Fire Support Squad : 85
Heavy Bolter
Autocannon
Heavy Bolter

Troop Platoon 1

Command Squad: 93
Junior Officer Laspistol+HW, Frag Carapace Armour, Power Sword, Bionics Bionics is a bit of a waste here, a 6+ invulnerable save isn't all that awesome and if he needs to take it then his squad is dead.

Veteran Laspistol+HW, Frag Medic , Carapace Armour

Guard Lasgun Frag,Plasma Gun See above.
Guard Lasgun Frag Grenade Launcher See above.
Guard Lasgun Frag Vox Caster

Infantry Squad : 87
Veteran Sergeant Lasgun Frag Consider a shotgun on this Sergeant. It's the same range as a rapid-firing lasgun and will allow you to charge if necessary.
8 Guardsmen Lasgun Frag, Vox Caster
Guardsman Flamer Frag

Infantry Squad : 89
Veteran Sergeant Lasgun Frag
8 Guardsmen Lasgun Frag, Vox Caster
Guardsman Grenade Launcher , Frag

Troop 2:
Armoured Fist Squadron: 176
Veteran Sergeant Laspistol, Frag
8 Guardsmen Lasgun Frag, Vox Caster
Guardsman Meltagun , Frag
CHIMERA (70) Heavy Flamer - Turret , Heavy flamer - hull

Elite:

Ratlings Squad: 55
5 Ratlings

Hardened Veterans: 141
9 Hardened Veterans Frags, Lascannon, Meltagun , Grenade Launcher , Flamer , Vox Caster
Veteran Sergeant Frags , Carapace
I run a unit of ten Veterans with three flamers and a shotgun on the Sargeant. It makes an incredible outflanking unit that often supprises people with it's effectiveness. I am thinking of replacing all lasguns with shotguns. Also, frag and krak grenades are essential, and Hardened Fighters and Light Infantry are both potentially good choices of doctrine for this unit.

Stormtroopers: 146
9 Stormtroopers Plasmagun, 2 Meltagun , frag, krak, hellguns, vox caster, targeters Squad can have only two Special Weapons.
Sergeant frag, krak, hellpistol, melee weapon, carapace. targeters

Fast Attack:
Hellound: 115 Inferno Cannon

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ +lascannon - hull + pair of heavy bolters , battle cannon: 160 I am of the opinion that heavy boltor sponsons are a waste of points. If you have the parts consider instead heavy flamers for defence, or just no sponsons at all.

Basilisk: 100 Indirect Fire is almost mandatory on these. It's rather useful.

[Lidlesspraetor]

I run a unit of ten Veterans with three flamers and a shotgun on the Sargeant. It makes an incredible outflanking unit that often supprises people with it's effectiveness. I am thinking of replacing all lasguns with shotguns. Also, frag and krak grenades are essential, and Hardened Fighters and Light Infantry are both potentially good choices of doctrine for this unit.



IMO, this unit would be a waste. The whole point of Hardened veterans is the BS of 4, which you lose with flamers b/c you don't roll to hit. A special weapon squad, or junior officer squad, with 3 flamers would be just about as effective, and you could give the hardened vets ranged weapons to take advantage of their higher balistics.

[Arquinsiel]

Erm... no it wouldn't be because a special weapon squad can't outflank and because you can use shotguns instead of lasguns you want to be able to charge. Also note that the Sergeant can take "Officer Only" items so as to have a power weapon or a power fist and the squad is intended to be a charging unit so it WILL benefit from being larger than the maximum of six men that your alternatives suggest.

This is the role in which I personally use my Hardened Veteran unit, and I have done so to such effect that the leader has earned the nickname of "Stan Hollis" in my gaming group.

[Lidlesspraetor]

Yeah but those five men also cost about half the points, meaning you can have two units of them. Also, how many times is there anyone left after shooting 3 flamers? In my experience, theres not enough left to worry about charging.

I probably should have said before, but I run a drop troop regiment, so I don't outflank. Also, there's usually not anyone left in my sqaud after I drop in 9 inches from the enemy, and get rapid fired on the very next turn. They're a one-hit wonder for me really. I defenately see the use of having the seargent with tooled out equipment, though. And I will admit that my one failing with the guard is that I don't have anyone to assault with, so I do see where your guys are more effective than my settup. However, you do have to admit that for just flaming goodness, a junior officer squad is a more cost-effective 52pts.

One last note, I agree on the surface about the bolter sponsons for the Leman. When I field tanks, which isn't often, I use one without sponsons but with a lascannon and one with 3 bolters. I find that if you're going to use bolter sponsons, you might as well take the hull mounted bolter too. One game, I killed an avatar (all 4 wounds) by shooting the 9 hvy bolter shots. That's extremely rare, but nice all the same. At times, it makes sense to shoot the bolters instead of the turret battle cannon.

[Arquinsiel]

Drop Troopers are horrible and you should be ashamed of yourself..... *cough* (I totally used to do that).

The issue with flamers is that I generally use this trick as close to the objective as possible or to attack a heavy CC unit in cover. The idea is to kill as many as possible and then take the remainder out in CC striking at the same time. It's damn rare that I actually have anything tougher than an ork to chew on in my group but when I do see marines it's nice to know that we're hitting at the same time and on the same roll but have the numbers and leadership to swing it. On more than one occasion they've chewed through an entire battle-line, only Stan and one of the flamers surviving by the last assault, but winning out in the end. I'm probably massively skewed in my view because of pure dumb luck, but they really are worth the points.

[Lidlesspraetor]

Drop troops: tell me about it lol. I've actually stopped using it in friendly games because it was angering my competition lol. Top that with the fact that I've only ever lost 2 units due to scattering, my rolls for Deep Striking are uncanny. I still use it in Apoc games though, nothing like getting all of those troops with meltas at the rear of the enemy tank line

You've definately re-opened my eyes to hardened vets. I'd probably use meltas instead of flamer, mainly b/c I already have my flame-o-death squad. I've always been looking for a squad to use against my bro's deathwing, and they just might fit the bill.

[Deadlydeception]

I think that you could probably get buy without the vox network. You only need to have one model within 12 of the officer to get his leadership.
Also, The lascannon you have in your veteran squad seems to conflict with their role as a mobile assault unit. The multi flamer unit is always good for these guys (it's how I run my command squads), But I think grenade launchers are also good.

If you remove the 6 vox casters : 60 pts
1 master Vox: 25 pts
lascannon in vets: 25 pts
bolter sponsons on the Russ: 10 pts
and bionics on your officers: 10 pts

you have 130 points to get anther basilisk, with indirect fire, and a rough terrain modification for your chimera.

[Tzelok]

One thing I have found with guard is you need REDUNDANCY. What I'm talking about is no mixing of special weapons, if you are going to use them, pick a purpose for that particular squad and max out on that weapon. For example, I play VS alot of space marines and CSM, and my command squad is 1 medic, my leader with a plasma pistol, and 3 plasma guns. IMO, use a diff squad for flamers, as your vets are one of the few units that will actually hit what they are shooting at. Mine is 10 guys strong with 3 plasma. Vs my friends demons they flanked epedimius hiding behind a building and melted him. That alone paid their points off. Also going to have to agree with DeadlyDeception, vox casters and leman russ sponsons are not worth their points.

[Arquinsiel]

Drop troops: tell me about it lol. I've actually stopped using it in friendly games because it was angering my competition lol. Top that with the fact that I've only ever lost 2 units due to scattering, my rolls for Deep Striking are uncanny. I still use it in Apoc games though, nothing like getting all of those troops with meltas at the rear of the enemy tank line ;)

Heh, you should see my friend's drop troopers - they fall from the sky into Close Order Drill and then go wild. They're just that well trained.....

You've definately re-opened my eyes to hardened vets. I'd probably use meltas instead of flamer, mainly b/c I already have my flame-o-death squad. I've always been looking for a squad to use against my bro's deathwing, and they just might fit the bill.

Give it a shot and see how it works out for you. It might be that you'll find it's not doing the trick but it's something to be aware of an having an assault unit in a Guard army throws people off. I just swear by flamers because the abovementioned friend uses flamer Sentinals to painful effect.