Here's the first go at the new list. It's still fairly rough, not used to doing lists without Army Builder, so do point out any calculation mistakes i've made if you can.
Tear it to shreds.
HQ
Hive Tyrant: Old Advesary, Leech Essence, Paroxysm - 195pts
2x Tyrant Guard: - 120pts
Elite
3x Hive Guard: - 150pts
Troops
3x Tyranid Warriors: Lash whips + Bone Swords, Scything Talons - 135pts
3x Tyranid Warriors: Lash whips + Bone Swords, Scything Talons - 135pts
8x Genestealers: - 112pts
8x Genestealers: - 112pts
16x Hormagaunts: - 96pts
16x Termagaunts: - 80pts
Fast Attack
3x Raveners: Rending Claws - 105pts
3x Raveners: Rending Claws - 105pts
Heavy Support
Trygon: - 200pts
Trygon: - 200pts
Total Points: 1745
Models in Army: 68
Now i might edit it a little bit myself, this was mainly just to get something on paper so that i could see where to work with from here. The points run out SOOOOOOO quickly.
I'd be happy to join the Warrior units into one as the list stands, that's not too big an issue for me. Also thought of just giving them dual boneswords in order to afford the outflank with my Hive Tyrant. The list is also missing some dedicated tank busters, but i've heard the Hive Guard can do the job, and i believe it, not to mention thier models look FANTASTIC.
As for tactics, Trygons will certainly be in reserve...really unsure as to what else i'll hold there. Thought of deepstriking with the Raveners, but i much prefer to have them on the board from the get go in order to have them in combat on Turn 2, so will probably hold the stealers back, but that'd be on the hope they can bust out of a Trygon tunnell...which is a gamble i'm not too keen on taking.
Anyway, this is something like i'd like my army to be. Might need to shoe horn in a bit more anti tank, and possibly some more Synapse, but Synapse is less of an issue with this codex, and points to get it in is quickly becoming far more of an issue.
New Tyranids - 1750pts
Moderators: Drainial, The Dread Knights
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Elric of grans
- Dark Rider
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:38 am
- Location: Australia
If you plan to Deep Strike the Trygons and Outflank the Stealers, I would strongly recommend Hive Commander on the Hive Tyrant. +1 is huge, not to mention it allows you to Outflank something else. I would suggest dropping a Tyrant Guard to fit it in, which then also frees up the points for Armoured Shell.
Your list has nothing that can threaten AV13/14. Depending on your local meta, that can be a major issue. Zoanthropes are the most reliable (60-something% chance to take out a Land Raider!!), but a Carnifex is also a decent choice. You also only have a very small amount of anti-tank. If your local meta is footslogging or hybrid-mech, you will probably be OK, but if fully-mech is more common you are in serious trouble. One unit of Hive Guard is likely to take out one, at best two, transports before your opponent is all over you.
I definitely would not run two units of three Warriors. They are too fragile to be run in such small units. One Battle Cannon and the whole unit is annihilated! I would suggest one of four or five, perhaps joined by a Tyranid Prime (WS6 is sexy). This unit would be best sent against Nobs, possibly MCs (with Toxin Sacks).
Depending on your local meta, you may want to consider Toxin Sacks on your Hormagaunts. I run them bare, but almost everyone I face is T4. If T5+ is more common in your local meta, definitely take this upgrade. In a mirror match, Toxigaunts are the best MC killers around.
Deep Striking Trygons is too unreliable a strategy, in my book. They have Fleet, so running them up the table with your Raveners would probably be more effective. There are now three MCs on the table, forcing your opponent to make some difficult choices. Thematically, it would probably look pretty cool too
Personally, I cannot justify two Trygons. I think a Carnifex (Screamer-Killer or Dakkadex), possibly in a Mycetic Spore, is a better option. It gives you more tactical flexibility, and it also adds the most reliable melee tank killer your army can get. With the Screamer-Killer, remember that two pairs of Scything Talons allows you to reroll ALL misses. Unlike Preferred Enemy, this also counts vs vehicles without a WS. Moved 6''? Not a problem!
Your list has nothing that can threaten AV13/14. Depending on your local meta, that can be a major issue. Zoanthropes are the most reliable (60-something% chance to take out a Land Raider!!), but a Carnifex is also a decent choice. You also only have a very small amount of anti-tank. If your local meta is footslogging or hybrid-mech, you will probably be OK, but if fully-mech is more common you are in serious trouble. One unit of Hive Guard is likely to take out one, at best two, transports before your opponent is all over you.
I definitely would not run two units of three Warriors. They are too fragile to be run in such small units. One Battle Cannon and the whole unit is annihilated! I would suggest one of four or five, perhaps joined by a Tyranid Prime (WS6 is sexy). This unit would be best sent against Nobs, possibly MCs (with Toxin Sacks).
Depending on your local meta, you may want to consider Toxin Sacks on your Hormagaunts. I run them bare, but almost everyone I face is T4. If T5+ is more common in your local meta, definitely take this upgrade. In a mirror match, Toxigaunts are the best MC killers around.
Deep Striking Trygons is too unreliable a strategy, in my book. They have Fleet, so running them up the table with your Raveners would probably be more effective. There are now three MCs on the table, forcing your opponent to make some difficult choices. Thematically, it would probably look pretty cool too
Personally, I cannot justify two Trygons. I think a Carnifex (Screamer-Killer or Dakkadex), possibly in a Mycetic Spore, is a better option. It gives you more tactical flexibility, and it also adds the most reliable melee tank killer your army can get. With the Screamer-Killer, remember that two pairs of Scything Talons allows you to reroll ALL misses. Unlike Preferred Enemy, this also counts vs vehicles without a WS. Moved 6''? Not a problem!I still miss the Lictor. Doesn't feel right not taking him!
I do agree, i need to get more anti tank in there. I guess you can always switch out a Trygon for a Mycetic Spawn stock Carnifex, and spot on that point on how good a tank killer he is. It'd also be a shame, seeing as i have three Carnifexes, not to use them anymore. But in general, i don't see too many of those big tanks which kind of made me think to take the Trygon's, as they will still easily munch through a Leman Russ, or the like.
I can also free points by dropping the lash whips off the Warrior Broods, which would be enough to pay for the Outflank +1 for my Tyrant.
I'll edit into this post an amended list. Then see where i can spend some more points.
HQ
Hive Tyrant: Old Adversary, Hive Commander, Leech Essence, Paroxysm - 220pts
2x Tyrant Guard: - 120pts
Elite
2x Hive Guard: - 100pts
2x Hive Guard: - 100pts
Troops
5x Tyranid Warriors: Bone Swords, Scything Talons - 200pts
8x Genestealers: - 112pts
8x Genestealers: - 112pts
16x Hormagaunts: - 96pts
16x Termagaunts: - 80pts
Fast Attack
3x Raveners: Rending Claws - 105pts
3x Raveners: Rending Claws - 105pts
Heavy Support
Trygon: - 200pts
Trygon: - 200pts
or
Carnifex: Scything Talons, Mycetic Spore - 200pts
Total Points: 1750
Models in Army: 68
With that last 50pts, just don't know what to do with it. Thought i could get another Hive Guard and split the unit into two units of two. That rounds things off a nice and neatly.
Then again, there's always the upgrades for Hormagaunts and Termagaunts which can also fill things out.
I'm about to go out for dinner, so will think this over. Thoughts on this change?
I do agree, i need to get more anti tank in there. I guess you can always switch out a Trygon for a Mycetic Spawn stock Carnifex, and spot on that point on how good a tank killer he is. It'd also be a shame, seeing as i have three Carnifexes, not to use them anymore. But in general, i don't see too many of those big tanks which kind of made me think to take the Trygon's, as they will still easily munch through a Leman Russ, or the like.
I can also free points by dropping the lash whips off the Warrior Broods, which would be enough to pay for the Outflank +1 for my Tyrant.
I'll edit into this post an amended list. Then see where i can spend some more points.
HQ
Hive Tyrant: Old Adversary, Hive Commander, Leech Essence, Paroxysm - 220pts
2x Tyrant Guard: - 120pts
Elite
2x Hive Guard: - 100pts
2x Hive Guard: - 100pts
Troops
5x Tyranid Warriors: Bone Swords, Scything Talons - 200pts
8x Genestealers: - 112pts
8x Genestealers: - 112pts
16x Hormagaunts: - 96pts
16x Termagaunts: - 80pts
Fast Attack
3x Raveners: Rending Claws - 105pts
3x Raveners: Rending Claws - 105pts
Heavy Support
Trygon: - 200pts
Trygon: - 200pts
or
Carnifex: Scything Talons, Mycetic Spore - 200pts
Total Points: 1750
Models in Army: 68
With that last 50pts, just don't know what to do with it. Thought i could get another Hive Guard and split the unit into two units of two. That rounds things off a nice and neatly.
Then again, there's always the upgrades for Hormagaunts and Termagaunts which can also fill things out.
I'm about to go out for dinner, so will think this over. Thoughts on this change?
Last edited by Hali on Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:24 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Handsome jack
- Executioner
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:05 am
- Location: Grand Forks North Dakota
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Elric of grans
- Dark Rider
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:38 am
- Location: Australia
Two units of two Hive Guard seems a good plan. You can target two separate transports a turn, and the enemy have to split their fire to take out all your anti-tank. Toxin Sacks are good on Hormagaunts, if you need them, but Termagants are better off without upgrades. If you take a Tervigon and upgrade HIM, those upgrades are passed onto all nearby Termagant Broods. If you have more than 10 Termagants (likely, considering he creates new ones), you are saving a lot of points this way. The mathhammer on Devourers, however, does look pretty good. I have not tried them yet, but I suspect they may be worth using now (though they REALLY reduce the size of your swarm).
In tournament-meta, the new Nids are currently struggling. Space Wolves are eating them for breakfast and they struggle against mech-Guard. It seems 50/50 against other MEQs and Orks. At less competitive-level, they are about the same as before, just the lists have changed a little.
In tournament-meta, the new Nids are currently struggling. Space Wolves are eating them for breakfast and they struggle against mech-Guard. It seems 50/50 against other MEQs and Orks. At less competitive-level, they are about the same as before, just the lists have changed a little.
It's SO hard to fit everything you want into the list. I never had so much trouble with a list before, the new troops are really expensive.
Space Wolves are just a cheesefest, so i don't expect to win against them. They are to 40k what Deamons of Chaos are to Fantasy.
In the end, i know i'm going to struggle with armour, although the genestealers and Raveners with Rending claws, can still pull down a Dreadnought with ease, and most certainly a tank with weaker rear armour. Monolith's and Land Raiders will ALWAYS be trouble, and all i can think of, is whether it's worth trying to counter them, or just focus on solid, fast moving assault troops in order to wipe out the enemy infantry, as this will dissallow them scoring units, and while i'm in combat i'm safe from the nastiness that is Tank Armaments.
THe Hormagaunts and Termagaunts i want to keep as cheap as possible, as they're fairly expendable in this list.
I keep looking at the Mawloc...but, I can't justify him when i compare him to the Trygon. His entry rule is fantastic, i'll certainly concede that point, but he lacks the raw killing power and the amount of attacks that the Trygon or the Prime have.
THe biggest pain at the moment, is i just can't see how to play that list. I want to use the reserve rules, but then don't know what to hold in reserves in order to get into outflanking positions.
I sort of want to run a Venomthrope within the list in order to my shield units cover, but there's just nothing to stop people pouring fire on the Venomthrope and negating that advantage within the first turn of play.
Maybe i should open it up, if this where your list, how would you run it? The only real requirement i'd have is that the Raveners are deployed on the board to start the game as they get people on the back feet, REALLY early on, which makes people make mistakes.
Space Wolves are just a cheesefest, so i don't expect to win against them. They are to 40k what Deamons of Chaos are to Fantasy.
In the end, i know i'm going to struggle with armour, although the genestealers and Raveners with Rending claws, can still pull down a Dreadnought with ease, and most certainly a tank with weaker rear armour. Monolith's and Land Raiders will ALWAYS be trouble, and all i can think of, is whether it's worth trying to counter them, or just focus on solid, fast moving assault troops in order to wipe out the enemy infantry, as this will dissallow them scoring units, and while i'm in combat i'm safe from the nastiness that is Tank Armaments.
THe Hormagaunts and Termagaunts i want to keep as cheap as possible, as they're fairly expendable in this list.
I keep looking at the Mawloc...but, I can't justify him when i compare him to the Trygon. His entry rule is fantastic, i'll certainly concede that point, but he lacks the raw killing power and the amount of attacks that the Trygon or the Prime have.
THe biggest pain at the moment, is i just can't see how to play that list. I want to use the reserve rules, but then don't know what to hold in reserves in order to get into outflanking positions.
I sort of want to run a Venomthrope within the list in order to my shield units cover, but there's just nothing to stop people pouring fire on the Venomthrope and negating that advantage within the first turn of play.
Maybe i should open it up, if this where your list, how would you run it? The only real requirement i'd have is that the Raveners are deployed on the board to start the game as they get people on the back feet, REALLY early on, which makes people make mistakes.
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Elric of grans
- Dark Rider
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:38 am
- Location: Australia
I hate the Mawloc. A large blast that fires twice, at best, and stands in assault-range, but sucks in combat? I cannot see how that can work, and I am yet to read a battle report where it has.
Personally, I would Outflank the Stealers and Warriors, but deploy everything else on the table. On average, two of them will pop out on the side you want, causing your opponent a massive headache. Possibly Outflank one unit of Hormagaunts in place of the Warriors, depending on how much space you have to move up the table (you will want to keep them near Synapse for as long as possible. I would then use the Hormagaunts and/or Termagants (they are no longer `gaunts' in the new book) to screen the Raveners and Tyrant Guard (which means the Hive Tyrant now gets a cover save) and screen the Trygons with the Raveners. I would split the Hive Guard to either side of the Hive Tyrant, at the edge of Synapse range, and march them up only as far as they need to. If you run the Warriors up the table, I would put them at the centre of the screen, with the Trygons/Raveners on either side, ensuring you have a CC-dominant unit that can go out any-which way.
Personally, I would Outflank the Stealers and Warriors, but deploy everything else on the table. On average, two of them will pop out on the side you want, causing your opponent a massive headache. Possibly Outflank one unit of Hormagaunts in place of the Warriors, depending on how much space you have to move up the table (you will want to keep them near Synapse for as long as possible. I would then use the Hormagaunts and/or Termagants (they are no longer `gaunts' in the new book) to screen the Raveners and Tyrant Guard (which means the Hive Tyrant now gets a cover save) and screen the Trygons with the Raveners. I would split the Hive Guard to either side of the Hive Tyrant, at the edge of Synapse range, and march them up only as far as they need to. If you run the Warriors up the table, I would put them at the centre of the screen, with the Trygons/Raveners on either side, ensuring you have a CC-dominant unit that can go out any-which way.
The Mawloc was not well thought out, very cool Fluff wise, absolutely LOVE the image of that sucker burrowing up under a unit in the middle of a battle and laying waste to it. If the strength of the borrowing hit were harder than S6 (maybe S8), i'd have considered it, because he could then sub in for a burst out tank killer...which is pretty cool.
In his current state though, well 40pts more gets you something that moves faster, has an Assault 6 weapon, and 3 more S6 attacks when it gets into combat AND re-rolls on all misses. I don't care who you are, a large blast template attack will not make up for that kind of raw killing power.
Otherwise, that sounds like a fairly solid plan. The Hive Tyrant and little gribblies where definitely going to form my centre battle line, with the Hive Guard on either side of the Tyrant. I was thinking of just finding a good spot for the Hive Guard to camp behind cover, but then thought that they might be better off staying close to the main force, if i leave them back closer to my deployment zone i can see deepstrikers just mincing them as soon as they get the chance, but hopefully a nearby Hive Tyrant will dissaude anything like that.
Both units of Ravener's can then run up a flank, because they're "feeders" they'll get stuck right in regardless, and they should be allright unless they run into a Land Raider.
I like the idea of Holding the warriors and a Genestealer brood off. I'm also fairly tempted to hold the second Trygon and other Genestealers off as well. But bring the Trygon on as a deepstriker, and the stealers on as reserves. THe stealers are pretty fast moving though...so it'd be nice to take advantage of their Infiltrate from the get go, same with the Trygon....
Scrap that idea, if i keep both Trygon's on the table and run them up different flanks, one with the Ravener broods, the other with a unit of Genestealers that should REALLY cause some headaches for my opponent. Small Horde with re-rolls in the middle, and some nice shooting/psychic powers, REALLY fast assault troops on one flank with a nasty arse MC and everyone's feared Genestealers on another flank with another MC.
Warriors and Genestealers come in where they are needed the most, lots of munching to be had by all.
In the case of the Carnifex, i'll probably run the Genestealers up a flank with the Trygon, run Raveners up the other side and drop the big boy in next to the nearest tank.
In his current state though, well 40pts more gets you something that moves faster, has an Assault 6 weapon, and 3 more S6 attacks when it gets into combat AND re-rolls on all misses. I don't care who you are, a large blast template attack will not make up for that kind of raw killing power.
Otherwise, that sounds like a fairly solid plan. The Hive Tyrant and little gribblies where definitely going to form my centre battle line, with the Hive Guard on either side of the Tyrant. I was thinking of just finding a good spot for the Hive Guard to camp behind cover, but then thought that they might be better off staying close to the main force, if i leave them back closer to my deployment zone i can see deepstrikers just mincing them as soon as they get the chance, but hopefully a nearby Hive Tyrant will dissaude anything like that.
Both units of Ravener's can then run up a flank, because they're "feeders" they'll get stuck right in regardless, and they should be allright unless they run into a Land Raider.
I like the idea of Holding the warriors and a Genestealer brood off. I'm also fairly tempted to hold the second Trygon and other Genestealers off as well. But bring the Trygon on as a deepstriker, and the stealers on as reserves. THe stealers are pretty fast moving though...so it'd be nice to take advantage of their Infiltrate from the get go, same with the Trygon....
Scrap that idea, if i keep both Trygon's on the table and run them up different flanks, one with the Ravener broods, the other with a unit of Genestealers that should REALLY cause some headaches for my opponent. Small Horde with re-rolls in the middle, and some nice shooting/psychic powers, REALLY fast assault troops on one flank with a nasty arse MC and everyone's feared Genestealers on another flank with another MC.
Warriors and Genestealers come in where they are needed the most, lots of munching to be had by all.
In the case of the Carnifex, i'll probably run the Genestealers up a flank with the Trygon, run Raveners up the other side and drop the big boy in next to the nearest tank.
Have a look at this list.
The Tyrant isn't as supportive, will probably run it differently as well.
HQ
Hive Tyrant: 2x Scything Talons, Wings, Adrenal Glands, Hive Commander, Leech Essence, Paroxysm - 265pts
Elite
2x Hive Guard: - 100pts
2x Hive Guard: - 100pts
Troops
5x Tyranid Warriors: Bone Swords & Lash Whips, Scything Talons - 225pts
8x Genestealers: Adrenal Glands - 136pts
8x Genestealers: Adrenal Glands - 136pts
16x Hormagaunts: - 96pts
16x Termagaunts: - 80pts
Fast Attack
3x Raveners: Rending Claws - 105pts
3x Raveners: Rending Claws - 105pts
Heavy Support
Trygon: - 200pts
Trygon: - 200pts
or
Carnifex: Scything Talons, Mycetic Spore - 200pts
Total Points: 1748
Models in Army: 66
Big difference is the Tyrant is winged in this rendition, and dropping the Tyrant guard i was able to buff out the stealers and Warriors a bit more.
Now, the difference with how i'd run this would be to have the Warriors on the table as my central Synapse creatures, the stealers on outflank duties, and the Tyrant with the Raveners or just bouncing around causing trouble. I've never played with a Flyrant before (going to convert one out of a Carnifex sprue).
The warriors are a bit more costly, but i love the idea of having such a large assault unit with lash whips, and bone swords, as i suspect it's and absolute BEAST of a combo. Hormagaunts and termigants will be my expendable screen, keeping the warriors alive long enough to get them stuck in, otherwise there's nothing subtle about it, just pure, run at them, claw them down.
The Tyrant isn't as supportive, will probably run it differently as well.
HQ
Hive Tyrant: 2x Scything Talons, Wings, Adrenal Glands, Hive Commander, Leech Essence, Paroxysm - 265pts
Elite
2x Hive Guard: - 100pts
2x Hive Guard: - 100pts
Troops
5x Tyranid Warriors: Bone Swords & Lash Whips, Scything Talons - 225pts
8x Genestealers: Adrenal Glands - 136pts
8x Genestealers: Adrenal Glands - 136pts
16x Hormagaunts: - 96pts
16x Termagaunts: - 80pts
Fast Attack
3x Raveners: Rending Claws - 105pts
3x Raveners: Rending Claws - 105pts
Heavy Support
Trygon: - 200pts
Trygon: - 200pts
or
Carnifex: Scything Talons, Mycetic Spore - 200pts
Total Points: 1748
Models in Army: 66
Big difference is the Tyrant is winged in this rendition, and dropping the Tyrant guard i was able to buff out the stealers and Warriors a bit more.
Now, the difference with how i'd run this would be to have the Warriors on the table as my central Synapse creatures, the stealers on outflank duties, and the Tyrant with the Raveners or just bouncing around causing trouble. I've never played with a Flyrant before (going to convert one out of a Carnifex sprue).
The warriors are a bit more costly, but i love the idea of having such a large assault unit with lash whips, and bone swords, as i suspect it's and absolute BEAST of a combo. Hormagaunts and termigants will be my expendable screen, keeping the warriors alive long enough to get them stuck in, otherwise there's nothing subtle about it, just pure, run at them, claw them down.