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what is a trainee of khaine supposed to be? 
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Well as you can see in my signature am a trainee of khaine in group 18, but the reason i chose this title was because i wanted to become an assassin. Now 2 weapon fighting i can understand, but uncontrollable frenzy seems more witch elf to me. And shades get a cloak and stealth!


Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:58 pm
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I'm new to this myself but from what i've read, the class are 'overall classes', as in if you want to be an assassin you should be a trainee, but if you want to be a witch elf then being a trainee also works. It's the skills that tailor your character to being an assassin.


Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:18 pm
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A "Trainee of Khaine" would NOT become an assassin. In fact, a Trainee of Khaine would have no allegiance to the Temple at ALL. I know the Malus Darkblade books are not an official source of Fluff, but as far as I care, They Are. In the fourth book of the series Malus has a run-in with a sect of Khainite Followers that broke their ties with the temple Millennia ago. They worship Khaine not through rituals, prayers, sigils, or anything that the temple utilizes to gain its dominance over the Druchii. A true follower of Khaine worships him only be shedding blood in his name. I master of Khaine can strike down a foe with a single blow, for they believe that the greatest power one can have is the power to end life. I Trainee of Khaine would be one apprenticed to a Master of Khaine, and Two Weapon Discipline and Uncontrollable Frenzy would be two accurate traits of a Trainee, for only the Masters can control their bloodlust and convert it into cool precision.


Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:20 pm
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So perhaps being a shade better suits my ambitions?


Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:24 pm
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I understand what your saying, having resently read the books myself (currently reading Lord of Ruin!), However if you were taken into the temple wouldn't you also be a "Trainee of Khaine"? As the temple is the state religon.


Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:36 pm
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I do not think that a Trainee of Khaine would refer to a niche group of Khaine worshipers. It wouldn't make sense.

A Trainee of Khaine is someone who has entered into the Temple of Khaine and is training in one of the many avenues of training the Temple has to offer, whether it be Assassin, Witch Elf, or even a Priest/ess. If you are a Trainee of Khaine, you are much more likely than a Shade to become an assassin, well at least an assassin in the traditional sense.

By that, I mean assassin in Druchii culture is a male member of the temple in all recorded counts. I think we could potentially ignore for the reason of realism that a male member of the temple could become an assassin even if he did not raise himself out of the Cauldron of Blood. A Shade, or a Warrior could also become an assassin, but he would be more of a man who is paid to kill people.

I agree with you Heartrender, that Uncontrollable Frenzy is not an accurate skill depiction for a Trainee of Khaine. I personally think that they should be given Two Weapon Fighting + a choice of skills to depict what path in the temple they choose.

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Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:57 pm
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Quote:
Uncontrollable Frenzy:
Prerequisites: (Trainee)
The many beatings and drug remedies that are fed a Trainee of Khaine during his training… well… it slightly unbalances the Druchii mind but, like most forms of training, this has its benefits, even if it may take years to show as much. Your character has a hair trigger temper, even the slightest insults can cause you to snap and, when you snap, you snap big time. Your blows may come faster and stronger than normal, but, your accuracy suffers and your hits fall less often, such is the price to pay for such rage.


I interpret that as a skill a newely trained (trained by temple, the ppl in the book were high motivated by untrained) trainee would have, there is controlled frenzy at a later level, which would be right for a more experanced trainee.


Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:07 pm
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I still believe the "Trainee of Khaine" should be a title reserved for those following my interpretation of the name. However, I agree with just about everyone else as far as how your character should be used in this RPG. You should have 2 weapon discipline as well as a skill to show what path you are taking through the Temple. As far as how your character should be, you deserve more of a "Hide in shadows" or "Critical strikes" skill instead if you want to play as an assassin. The skills you have now reflect more of a Witch Elf type of path.


Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:15 pm
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IIRC shades are assassins in training.

Trainee of khaine i would think would be more like a witch elf, even if not exactly.

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Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:21 pm
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Celius wrote:
IIRC shades are assassins in training.

Trainee of khaine i would think would be more like a witch elf, even if not exactly.


Ok, I'm not clear on what the abbreviation IIRC means...so I'll just ignore that and focus my reply on the rest of the post.

Shades aren't assassin in training. Really, Shades are very dissimilar to assassins. A Shade is one of the Autarii, who spends their entire existence guarding the mountain border of Naggaroth. A Shade in general is born, and dies in those mountains. They are unlikely to ever become an assassin, unless extenuating circumstances forces them from their mountain home...(Or you know, they're sent on a quest to find 6 trophies worthy of a Darkstar warrior :P )

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Skills: Basic Stealth, Stealth.
Inventory: Shade Cloak, Short Sword, Repeater Handbow, Legran's Token, Six Daggers, 65.5 Gold, Thieves' Tools, Wrist Blades.

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Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:25 pm
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Shades are mountain people who live stealthy lives in the hills of Naggaroth in little groups/families and come to war when called upon by their King. They arent assassins in training.

I will ask the mod of my group if i can swap Uncontrollable frenzy out then. Cheers.


Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:26 pm
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Or you could write it in as part of the background! Mine has U.Frenzy because of events in his past.


Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:31 pm
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Mine is called Heartrender because of the events in his past :p Ive PMed my group mod anyways, i hope to change out that uncontrollable frenzy to something more fitting.


Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:50 pm
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@ Javert

IIRC means "If I Remember Correctly"


Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:08 pm
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Can i also post a rant here quickly instead of making a new thread, elves are supposed to be tall!! I have seen in character creation loads of 5'6'' elves, thats shorter than me! Most elves are at least 6-7' tall


Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:20 am
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@Heartrender’s last post: Well personally, I made my characters’ height in the 5-foot area in order to distinguish him from the typical 6-foot height, but it does seem a majority of new characters appear shorter. Maybe it’s something in the water affecting new births, roughly 100 years ago mind you.

But to address the main point of this topic, I always looked at the three classes from the perspective of what they might class/rank up to, if we had such a feature. Warriors would easily advance into ranks ranging from Corsairs, to Cold One Knights, to Black Guard. The Trainee of Khaine would naturally advance to the Khainte units, such as Witch Elves, Executioners, and Assassins. Shades, on the other hand, could not really advance into anything but a Shade. Here is where imagination and the open-ended free style attributed to this being an RPG not necessarily associated with Games Workshop comes into play. Given the Shades stats and abilities leaning to the stealthy roguish type, I would imagine a Shade could easily advance to the rank of assassin, if not a Temple of Khaine sanctioned assassin. The initial attribute of uncontrollable frenzy may not appeal to the ultimate goal of an assassin, but it is meant to reflect the often frenzied nature of Khaine and his followers. It begins as uncontrollable because you begin as a trainee, and eventually you can acquire controlled to reflect your progression.

In the interests of creating balanceable character class options, the RPG creators/mods went with the three options we are presented with, to fit the notches of tankish guy, damager, and stealthy guy. Another obvious option would be a magic user, but that would have required a massive system put in place to handle magic, spell casting, spells themselves, and balancing the power of spells with other characters. It is for these reasons I believe they opted to not place a magic user in the RPG, for the time being. Either way, if you wanted to make your character an assassin, you could chose to take any of the three options, and just focus on learning the abilities attributed to a typical assassin as you progress your character through the RPG. Your RPG group leader/mod determines when you level up, and if/when you receive stat points and learn new abilities. Perhaps if you are nice to them, they will allow you to learn an ability of your choosing if/when you level up within the RPG, allowing you to begin learning the abilities an assassin might possess. Once again, this is meant to reflect your humble beginnings within the RPG and your overall progression to whatever ultimate goal you have in mind for your character. I hope this sheds some light on the issue for anyone who needed clarification. If I can provide more help, please ask.

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Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:17 pm
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Don't true Assassins just have Controllable Frenzy? :)

No reason a Trainee can't pick Basic Stealth etc. if (s)he wants to sneak around. It's just that learning to fight usually comes first.

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Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
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Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:38 pm
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hence the 2 weapon fighting skill :)


Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:22 pm
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Frenzy for more offensive power (or you're not dedicated to Khaine enough! wuhahahaha)

...but everyone has different priorities, looking at your skills I think you (and your mod) have done pretty well striking a balance :lol:

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:53 am
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Ask not what your class can do for you, but what you can do for your class. 8)

On a more serious note, stg has it on the money. As much as this is a Druchii-based RPG, it would be unneccesarily limiting to stick to Games Workshop's, the Black Library's, or whichever's lore. Vikarh is not in the lore. The lore doesn't always make sense. Think outside the box, and check with your host if you want to stretch the boundaries.

I cannot speak for the classes themselves as I wasn't around when they were made, and they date far back. The fact that we actually have classes is not to limit but to help players flesh out a character. Creating a character from scratch is a daunting task and, in many cases, leads to gross imbalances. You don't want to know the number of Talekiths going around before the major clean-up.

As for the shade, admittedly a misnomer. A 'shade' would really be more of a 'stealthy character' in our case. You don't need to be a true-blooded, born-in-the-mountains-and-raised-in-a-barn shade to take the shade class. And you don't have to be a trainee to be an assassin--if you walk like an assassin, fight like an assassin, and die like an assassin, you are more-or-less an assassin.

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Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:56 pm
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If you go by the new edition DE codex, boys become assassins in the temple of khaine, girls become witch elves. But given that he's the god of murder, any number of fighting related "classes" could evolve. In a weird analogy it could be considered like doing medicine. You start off fairly general but as you go along you follow a particular path to become specialised.

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Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:36 pm
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Just thought id join this thread, not completely relevant, but um

pets.

Right I know what you are thinking, but what about wannabe beastmasters? I just think it would be cool to have like, a baby cold one or something, since beastmasters rear them for higher born masters. And well, trainee beastmaster gets lil things. Just an idea.

Oh and just looked, and was thinking: shouldn't the longbows power be higher than normal bows? I mean I know the range is much longer, but its range is from its power.

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(I): 4
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Warrior: Long Sword, Shield, Light Armour.
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Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:18 pm
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Quote:
pets.


I think it would be up to the mod to decide. It would just complicate things for them and you. And how long would you have to individually RP to train with a beastmaster(you have to find one of those first, more benevolence on the mod's behalf) to be able to handle a baby monster. Do you think an employer would like you running around with an animal which you could potentially act up. Thats the main problem. In the old version of the RPG when it was very freeform and you could do or become anything you wanted and the mods let you, this would have been very plausable but I'm not sure the game is set up for it.

Then again I can't speak for the mods, just my thoughts.

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Equipped; Short Sword, 2xDagger, Repeater Crossbow, Repeater Crossbow Pistol, Shade Cloak

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Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:40 pm
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Ok not continuing my old post here since Ive rather revived myself, but just thinking, does a trainee of Khaine need to be someone taught by the temple of Khaine? I mean, if the class titles are supposed to be broad, isnt calling them a trainee of khaine a little limiting? I mean that means they have to have come from the temple, which according to fluff means witch elf or assassin.

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Forging souls anew....

Name : Ildren Vrak'nair
Height and Weight : 5'11, 85kg
Character Age : 164
Class: Warrior
(WS): 4
(S): 4
(T): 3
(D): 3
(I): 4
EQUIPMENT
Warrior: Long Sword, Shield, Light Armour.
SKILLS
None


Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:26 pm
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Means witch elf or assassin or executioner or multiple other unnamed cults. Disciple of Khaine maybe? a priest?
Temple of Khaine is vast and varied, don't limit yourself to army book choices.

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Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:07 pm
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