The Mordheim Overhaul - Let Us Begin!!!

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

Actualy, after reading back up the thread:

Druchii City Guard become Druchii Fleet. Corsairs loose their 0-5 restriction and the noble gets re-named to captain/reaver/something similarly suitable and gets the corsair special skill for free.

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:23 pm

Y'know, CoS didn't exist at that time. Although I'm sure it'd make a nice fluff bit for players, I thought we'd agreed that it would remain only that: fluff?
Out of all the available bands, mercenaries are the only ones who got different lists - and they really weren't different by much. I think all these different choices are overkill, really. I mean, okay, let's admit you want to be able to represent the Temple, Convent (not CoS, Convent) and neutral people with an interest in the whole deal - slight variations, then, yes? In that case, perhaps allow the sorceress for the Convent, something else for the Temple (not assassins, but executioners, or witch elves? - hero, to counter the sorceress, or henchmen so you have more?) and the whole corsair issue for independants (i.e. hired for the job)?
Still, I strongly disagree with having moe than one list - this is the Empire. It's normal for the humans to be numerous. We've got far less people there then they have.

(Sorry for the poor quality and syntax of this post, I was on the phone.)

Pagan-gerbil · Post by **Pagan-gerbil** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm

I agree, I don't like the idea of different rules for different flavours of warband. Surely we can produce different styles of warband from the choices there are, to suit anyone's style of play?

Kind of like the Dark Elves in Blood Bowl (and kind of in general) - no one direct specialisation, but enough that a gap in their opponent's list can be exploited perfectly.

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:14 pm

pagan-gerbil wrote:I agree, I don't like the idea of different rules for different flavours of warband. Surely we can produce different styles of warband from the choices there are, to suit anyone's style of play?

Kind of like the Dark Elves in Blood Bowl (and kind of in general) - no one direct specialisation, but enough that a gap in their opponent's list can be exploited perfectly.

I'd tend to agree with that. Perfectly fits the spirit of Druchii, IMO.

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:36 pm

I agree as well. DE are few in numbers and even the numbers that are sent to Mordheim are really small. I think we should have more or less something like this:

One main list and you get to choose one of three "sides". Much like chaos in WFB choose the gods. However, I'd go with only a difference: a unit.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:13 pm

Well the only a real difference I've sugested for most of those lists is for the 0-2 "champion" type hero. If that's a big change between warbands then maybe your definiton of big is different to mine.

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:31 pm

Arquinsiel wrote:Well the only a real difference I've sugested for most of those lists is for the 0-2 "champion" type hero. If that's a big change between warbands then maybe your definiton of big is different to mine.

Then it must be. By big, in this case, I meant making a change to the actual list - Empire only gets minor special rules, most of them focusing on the captain...

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:08 pm

Actually empire get huge special rules.

Reiklanders: +6" to leadership range of captain, all marksmen get +1 bs.

Middenheimers: Captains and champions (or fellblades if you will) get +1 strength.

Marienburgers: +100 GC!

Averlanders: have entirely different hero choices (EXCLUDING the captain) AND henchmen.

Ostlanders: No ogres, must sell all wyrdstone, and different heroes AND henchmen.

So the provinces of the empire are actaully wildly different from the norm. Only the marienburgers are simple to quantify.

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:17 pm

Arquinsiel wrote:Actually empire get huge special rules.

Reiklanders: +6" to leadership range of captain, all marksmen get +1 bs.

Middenheimers: Captains and champions (or fellblades if you will) get +1 strength.

Marienburgers: +100 GC!

Averlanders: have entirely different hero choices (EXCLUDING the captain) AND henchmen.

Ostlanders: No ogres, must sell all wyrdstone, and different heroes AND henchmen.

So the provinces of the empire are actaully wildly different from the norm. Only the marienburgers are simple to quantify.

I was only refering to the "mainline" Empire lists, i.e. those in the rulebook - the first three. Regardless, a hero swap (i.e. sorceress/witch elf/something else heroes, depending on the list picked) is fine by me - I just don't think we should have more than one list, full stop.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:20 pm

You have noticed that all I've done is added or removed restrictions on troops types yeah? Maybe I should write this up or something to give people a better idea of what I meant. Ah well, after the exams.

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:31 pm

Arquinsiel wrote:You have noticed that all I've done is added or removed restrictions on troops types yeah? Maybe I should write this up or something to give people a better idea of what I meant. Ah well, after the exams.

No, no, I noticed. As I said, I don't disagree with the changes themselves - just with the essence of having list variants for a people who are going to be present in Mordheim in very small numbers...

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:37 pm

C'mon, you know there's gonna be hundreds of us there. Even with the old list we averaged three out of eight warbands per campaign in my local group.

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:40 pm

Arquinsiel wrote:C'mon, you know there's gonna be hundreds of us there. Even with the old list we averaged three out of eight warbands per campaign in my local group.

Sure, but if we're logical, in-game we should only be present in very small numbers - raiding groups and all that - which is why I still think we should only have one list.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:44 pm

It is still just one list, all that changes is the minor hero choices in it. It's not that big a change.

Loflar · Post by **Loflar** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:46 pm

I think, that you differ in definition of term "one list".

Anyway, I think, that one DE warband should be sufficient. It is long and dangerous way from their homes (or barracks? where do DE warriors live between campaigns? ;-) to Mordheim. Imperial mercenaries have it much easier. So, there is a lot more imperial mercs roaming the streets, than DEs. Therefore, comparing DEs to Imperials is, from my point of view, misleading. I would rather compare DEs to dwarves, Bretonnians, or other "foreigners".

Orteo · Post by **Orteo** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:44 am

Is it possible we could ask Jervis Johnson which he would prefer? The ultimate goal of this is to get something which appeals to the people in charge of Mordheim. Why not ask, to make sure we are on the right track? My guess is they would prefer one list, that doesn't change at all. But it can't hurt to ask.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:12 pm

Okay, this has died. Come on people, do we want this revision or don't we?

Loflar · Post by **Loflar** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:54 pm

Well, from system point of view, what is wrong with DE warband for Lustria?

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:24 pm

Arquinsiel wrote:Okay, this has died. Come on people, do we want this revision or don't we?

Sorry, mostly my bad. Then again, I guess the fact that I've been down with gastro-enteritus for the past few days.
Anyway, I'm in the process of sticking my idea about the two 0-1 heroes that you can only choose one of in ye ole trusty .doc file and posting it back up again.

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:21 pm

My bad as well, exam period.. Exiled in the books..

Can one of you two make a resumée of what has been said? The main lines of changing.. and if nothing has been done, the main ideas? It's better to start a new thread as well.. It's more visible..And cleaner

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:48 pm

Anaryin wrote:My bad as well, exam period.. Exiled in the books..

Can one of you two make a resumée of what has been said? The main lines of changing.. and if nothing has been done, the main ideas? It's better to start a new thread as well.. It's more visible..And cleaner

That .doc thing (y'know, the real old one we started on a while back - the one you told us to just let go?

) will be up sometime soon. Teachers seem to have unanimouslu agreed that this is the period to dump work on us.

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:08 pm

I said let go because it was fluff first

Send it again please

to may mail if you can Always_Asleep@netcabo.pt

The creator · Post by **The creator** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:07 pm

right well i know i have no right to suggest things here but i have seen DE in practise many times apon the streets of mordheim and i have ntoiced many things about them...
firstly fey quickness - i hate this with a passion so feiry it could burn squirrels from 100 paces please kill it as i really think it is too good, i mean a 5+ ward save is allright but 4+ is too far.
Secondly- elves although are very quick shoudl not have I 6 to start with drop this to 5 as even vampires only have I 4 to start with... as should their Ws be dropped a bit as again even vamps start with Ws 4 so what allows a corsair to start with the same Ws as a vamp...
Thirdly- if you did all this the prices would be better and as such you could get more members to start with which wont be overpowered.

Well thats my rant over
I may get back to you with more things to improve etc (not all bad things :lol:

).

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:13 pm

Sorry its been a while. I would like to employ all the reasons above for my absence.

I think we should mantain a combat specialist. Everyone will employ the champion level heroes to get maximum amonts of gold from their games. The rules disallowing ranged weapons for the Fellblades was a very effective way of maintaining balance between the aspects.

Im sure we have all come up against a "shooty warband of death" in our time and know how frustrating it can be.

I would like to see an end to the beastmaster and cold ones. I feel they have no place in Mordheim. I have thoght over all the reasons listed in all the other topics but there are still gaping holes in their justification.

The cold ones can be replaced with the warrior. The back bone of our regular armys that was not included in the list. Similar stats to the human warrior with the increases an Elf needs.

M Ws Bs S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 3 1 5 1 7 costing round about 25 gold.
Beastmaster becomes a slave driver perhaps. Keeps the whip and the stats change. New rules such as:
For every model taken OA ten dies/captured roll d6, on a 4+ you gain half the models base cost.

Note this is not leading to using slaves in battle. We want live slaves to fetch a descent price.

Alternatives keeping the beastmaster
If you wanted a beast I have an option. Harpies brought over in cagers then released into the city. We cannot control them and so just fly leasurely picking of people at random. Rules are still in the making for these but the beastmaster would offer some sort of protection from them.

If trying to attack the beastmaster or any friendlys within 6" it must first pass a leadership test.

Harpies with wings clipped or damaged on the crossing. The beastmaster could control them as they care confined to the ground. They can have appaling stats, movement 6 for represent there pitifull attempts at taking off. Frenzied with two claws as weapons.
M Ws Bs S T W I A Ld
6 2 2 3 3 1 3 2 5
Gliding: may move diagonally when climbing from a height to the ground, taking any nessecary I tests.
|\
| \
|__\--> *For lack of words.

We are a very magically inclines culture so it would be shame to loose the sorceress.

Highborn does need a name change.

That are my ideas for now. Back to Physics work I go.

Windreaver · Post by **Windreaver** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:22 am

count me in ill help anyway i can