The Mordheim Overhaul - Let Us Begin!!!

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:07 am

Okay, the slight revamp of the old .doc file's been done; ask Anaryin for it (or me to mail it to you) for the moment, as I'm still trying to remember how to allow people to download stuff off my Yahoo! briefcase (see, Yahoo! still hates me).

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:47 am

I'll post a sticky in no time with it. I formatted my pc and I'll have an exam next week so it will take a day or two for me to have time to search the cd where I have the file and then post it

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:27 pm

Anaryin wrote:I'll post a sticky in no time with it. I formatted my pc and I'll have an exam next week so it will take a day or two for me to have time to search the cd where I have the file and then post it

Thanks Any. I truly hate Yahoo!.

Loflar · Post by **Loflar** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:23 pm

About beastmaster. Is there any reason not to give him normal dogs? I mean, dogs live pretty everywhere. Why should dark elves not use them? Furthermore, while COs are stupid, dogs are not. If Witch hunters can use them to hunt witches, we could use them to hunt slaves. Dogs can be trained to be silent and stealthy, which would fit needs of Druchii warband in city deep in the enemy territory. And, dogs are available from GW (which I think was one of requirements).

The need to not be seen IMHO also means, that bringing cages with harpies could be a problem.

Anaryin · Post by **Anaryin** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:44 pm

CO's are more Druchii-like..they love killing

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:39 am

Szerthall wrote:About beastmaster. Is there any reason not to give him normal dogs? I mean, dogs live pretty everywhere. Why should dark elves not use them? Furthermore, while COs are stupid, dogs are not. If Witch hunters can use them to hunt witches, we could use them to hunt slaves. Dogs can be trained to be silent and stealthy, which would fit needs of Druchii warband in city deep in the enemy territory. And, dogs are available from GW (which I think was one of requirements).

The need to not be seen IMHO also means, that bringing cages with harpies could be a problem.

Taken care of in the mentioned .doc file. I replace COH with Warhounds from the HoC AB (logical, since we live close to the Wastes). You'd be able to check it out if Any just got 'round to posting it...

Jhaelrnya · Post by **Jhaelrnya** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:52 pm

I think warhounds are a little much. CoH are a little disappointing, but hey, they are the druchii-est type of dog we could want.

But if people are really agasint them, the next best thing would be to stick to Mordhiem standards, and take regular hounds from the rulebook.

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:37 pm

I would urge against the hounds from the rule book. A Druchii wouldn't use something so primitive that a human warband can control with ease. They will always strive to go one better.

Loflar · Post by **Loflar** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:25 am

So the hounds could get some special rule. Say, really good noses, which would allow them to find enemy. So they could be placed within charge distance of an enemy model, including infiltrators.

The creator · Post by **The creator** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:59 am

hmm well it is true the old dark elves used hounds, that is the really old dark elves as in about 1993 or before...

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:40 am

Jhaelrnya wrote:I think warhounds are a little much. CoH are a little disappointing, but hey, they are the druchii-est type of dog we could want.

But if people are really agasint them, the next best thing would be to stick to Mordhiem standards, and take regular hounds from the rulebook.

Just something I'd like to make clear - the COH aren't going because they were "disappointing" or anything along that line (those stats and Fear isn't that disappointing, y'know), simply because the Powers that Be decided that we can't use anything that doesn't have models currently produced by GW. That's why they got replaced by Chaos Warhounds, whose presence makes sense both fluff-wise and rules-wise.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:56 pm

But if people are really agasint them, the next best thing would be to stick to Mordhiem standards, and take regular hounds from the rulebook.

We can take them anyway. And, according to the rulebook, monkey kinfe-fighters should we so choose.

The creator · Post by **The creator** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:37 pm

im sorry but that would be so amazing it would be unbelievable, get those elves some monkey knife fighters

.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:42 pm

We can, it's in the main rulebook. Any warband can buy them.

Loflar · Post by **Loflar** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:19 am

Somehow I could not completely believe you. Then I found it. It is page 38 of Living Rulebook. There are stats for wardog with note, that those stats can also be used to represent more exotic animals, e.g. bears, Chaos familars or those monkeys.

In my opinion it means, that if you have a warband, and its rules permit it, a hero of this warband can buy a general animal (say, a duck) with stats of wardog.

However, our problem is not what animal to buy for a hero in a warband. Our problem is to decide:
1) If DE warband should include an animal as a henchman choice, similarly to dogs of Witch hunters and giant rats of Skaven
2) If yes, what animal should it be (this choice constrained by available GW models)
3) Which stats and skills should the animal have

And, what more, I don't like monkeys. They never tell anything intelligent. Parrots are much better ;-)

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:07 pm

I would like to think we are keeping this wholly Dark elves so that would mean if we are having an animal are choice is severely limited, so I will expand it to the neighbouring armies.
I doubt we can take a Hydra in a warband while keeping it balanced, even the baby hydras in monster hunt would be too powerful and un-wieldy.
Have a look and try and picture these with the warband. If anything fits particulary well it would be a start.
Druchii: Harpies
Chaos: Hounds, Daemons (a long shot here)
Lustria: Salamanders
Ulthuan: we could corrupt a few eagles I suppose

*edit, ideas above are still valid but I vote we use the warhounds in the alpha list in conjunction with the beastmaster.

Fell blade replacement:
Covent: same stats apart from WS 3. Each cvent hero adds a single "dispel dice" to the warband. Making them spell casters would be much too powerful. This way the magical qualities of the covent is reprosented and spread evenly between the two.

Temple: Ws 4, frenzy, no Missile weapons

Nutral: remains a fell blade

With the covent being reprosented by the heros we can drop the sorceress for something more in tune with why we are there. I still have not thought of anything beyond the slave driver.

0-1 Slave Driver
45 Gold Crowns to hire
Mordheim is the place to be if you are seeking fame and fortune, be it by Wyrdstone or slavery. The Slave Driver is an expert at picking to ripest victims for slavery. Preferably the slave is to be un-damaged but even a cripple can find purpose on the alters of Khane.

Profile: M Ws Bs S T W I A Ld
5 4 4 3 3 1 6 1 8

Weapons/Armour: The Slave Driver may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Druchii equipment list.

Special rules: Slavery
For every enemy model taken OA and killed on the seriouse injury chart roll D6. On a 4+ the model has been taken captive, shipped back to Naggaroth and sold for a price. The warband gains half of the models base cost.
If an enemy model is said to be captured the Dark Elve warband gains the models total cost.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:16 pm

Erm... there are rules for selling slaves in the main book. You keep his equipment and gain 2d6 ish GC.

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:49 pm

Yes, but we can alter them for this warband, such as the pirate warband has done. The slave trade is a large part of Druchii society, it makes sense that we are more adept at it then most.

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:54 pm

Mielkith wrote:Yes, but we can alter them for this warband, such as the pirate warband has done. The slave trade is a large part of Druchii society, it makes sense that we are more adept at it then most.

If alter it we must, then I suggest a very small modification like +1d6 coins (or even +2, +3 or some such fixed number) and +1XP (since the Druchii warband will have the choice between shipping the slaves back home and selling them, of sacrificing them on the altar to Khaine).

Loflar · Post by **Loflar** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:49 pm

If alter it we must, then I suggest a very small modification like +1d6 coins (or even +2, +3 or some such fixed number) and +1XP (since the Druchii warband will have the choice between shipping the slaves back home and selling them, of sacrificing them on the altar to Khaine).

I think it should be or. The slave can be either sacrificed or sold, not both at the same time.

Maybe the XP bonus for sacrifice could be higher if the warband has a Witch Elf. Or, it could be impossible without her. This could also present another difference between sorceress and WE when starting the warband
(magic and more money or frenzied girl and more XP).

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:16 pm

No, no, it was "and." A bonus to selling and sacrificing does not mean that both can be done at the same time...

Hmm, the Hag Trainee/sacrifice idea is cool, though I would propose simply a bonus to experience (like +1 point if and only if you have the Trainee - screw anty other bonii, the Skaven have none and being able to do both is already a major bonus). That would account for the Trainee's cost somewhat, too. Anyone else care to speak on the issue?

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:50 pm

I was thinking we could have a price variable on the condition of the slave. It would over complicate things if we took into acount leg wounds etc. but there is a clear difference between captured slaves and those we drag from the battle field close to death.

We might also want to take size into account.

Im sure more money would be payed for a "healthy" ogre then a crippled goblin.

+1D6 for a slave lost to a warband on the injury chart (he/she/it is only captured on a roll of 4+)
+1D6 if the result was captured
+1D6 if the slave is a large target OR +1 gc for every point of M,S,T,W
-1D6 if the slave is and animal
these are cumulative

Who would get the Xp for the sacrifised slaves?

Loflar · Post by **Loflar** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:58 pm

Mielkith wrote:Who would get the Xp for the sacrifised slaves?

In case of Posessed, it is leader, i.e. usually magister. Probably because it is leader's privilege. However, if DE will sacrifice only if they have WE, then it is her job and she should get the XP.

Those abbreviations are like plague ;-)

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:13 pm

Yes, but we can alter them for this warband, such as the pirate warband has done. The slave trade is a large part of Druchii society, it makes sense that we are more adept at it then most.

Less so than for skaven, for whom the rule was origionally made.

Who would get the Xp for the sacrifised slaves?

It depends, some times it's just the leader but other times you gain d3+1 xp to be distributed amongst all the warbands heroes depending on how the slaves are aquired.

Jhaelrnya · Post by **Jhaelrnya** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:48 pm

I think you are driving this waaaaay too complicated. Simplistic is key here. I propose this general rule for the warband.

Slavers:
Dark ELves are notorious slavers, known all over the world as taking anyone alive, be they old or young. All can serve as a sacrifice on the alter of Khaine.
When the Dark Elf warband captures an enemy (be it from a Slave Driver's special rule or as a result of 'Captured' on the Injuries chart) they gain +1D6 GC to the total.

I suggest absolutely no special rules for alternate heroes. It makes things too complicated to be worth while. Stick with the Alpha version of either or. Special rules for "Fellblades" or Lordlings or whatever seems over the top in my honest opinion. I really like the Alpha list in the way that it handles the characteristics of the Covent and Temple.