Mordheim Revision: Fluff questions to consider

[Orteo]

Just reposting from the other thread.

The following are some basic questions (and a few possible answers) that we need to answer before we can really dive into the fluff for the Druchii warband. Keep in mind Mordheim is set something like 500 years before the present date in the WH world. Meaning the CoS isn't near as large and almost entirely hidden.

A raider theme to the warband has promise, but it also has some major issues that need to be addressed. The main one being why is a Druchii raiding party in Mordheim? Not only is it landlocked, it is not an easy place to raid. Why search for slaves in the most dangerous city in the world where everyone goes fully armed and ready for battle at all times? A nice defenseless coastal village is much more appealing raiding site.

The only reason for the druchii to be in Mordheim is the same reason everyone else is there: wyrdstone. So why do they want wyrdstone? Is it the Sorceress Convent that wants it? Individual noble families? Malekith himself? Or maybe Morathi who wants to use it to strengthen the Cult of Slaanesh.

If it is that valuable, why doesn't a highborn march an entire army there to sieze the city? Most likely it is something akin to the skaven, where only a few know of the importance of Mordheim and the missions are clandistine. That would rule out Malekith, but would make a lot of sense for Morathi.

Once we figure out who is funding the expeditions to Mordheim we have to decide exactly what they want the Wyrdstone for. Is Morathi using it to increase her deamon summoning capablilities? The Convent crafting potent magical artifacts? Nobles using it to fuel their fleets to previously unheard of speeds?

Please post any possible answers, as well as more questions we should think about. This same sort of thing should also be done for the Shadow Elves, but since I know almost nothing of their fluff, I'll leave that to someone else.

[Anaryin]

My view on this:

Dark Elves raiding parties strike primarily from the sea so I guess we shouldn't really think on them as the main force in Mordheim. However, it may be possible that an ark, lost due to some storm or something (probably even due to the comet-landing aftermath effects) has been driven up the River that crosses Mordheim. I can imagine the Ghastly town, burning and ruined, being sighted from above the ark by the astounished elves. I guess they could go out and try to plunder something. This can be a main plot line.

As for the other possibilities, it's likely that the Convents and even the Chaos Cults sent parties there to try and seize some stones. However, I think that they are, or should be, more of a secondary part of the list, if present at all.

As for my plotline then:

Elves are lost and brought to Mordheim. Once there they can and will search for any valuable resources. The Captain of the Ark brings with him a couple of warriors, around a tenth of the Ark's total forces. As he pillages the town he has to fight with several aberrations and human scavengers. However, when he reaches the Ark, there is no Ark...
It's as simple as this. It's a simple plotline, full of possibilities and that can easily and truly explain why Druchii are in that city.

What do you think then?

[Nekroskop]

I really don't think that something as big as a black ark would go unnoticed, even in the warravaged empire of Mordheim.

What struck me as really nice is the Morathi angle - a good tie-in to our recent CoS list, and it would show exceptionally well how long term the Druchii plan.

So this would be infiltrators sponsored by Morathi and her Convent of Sorceresses. We don't need to include any Slaaneshi rules, as the agents Morathi uses need not know what she wants the wyrdstone for.

So my fluff idea would be:

Morathis Convent of Sorceresses watches the whirling energies of chaos from the watchtowers and from Grhond. The emergence of the Comet is not lost on them, and as soon as they determined it's point of impact they organized infiltration parties to get hold of the priceless wyrdstone fragments.

Those parties oprate highly independent and send the wyrdstone back to Naggaroth through convoluted channels, passing them through Marienburg to human corsairs hat don't care whose gold they take.

Druchii Warbands are small, but extremely skilled, and few mercenary warbands even realize what hit them before they get felled by black-feathered bolts in the back...

[Anaryin]

Hmm. Also a possibility. I said an Ark, but it may well be a small ship. Also, forget about the CoP... it's underground at this time

[Mielkith]

I am now hooked on the idea of a ghostly black ark that has followed the River Stir (?) down and into Mordheim. There it stops and remains there as a base of operations from where the warbands can head into the city to aquire wierdstone for purposes formally mentioned.
As it is part of Cult it is safe to assume there are a fair few sorceresses on board, capable of creating illusions to disguise the black ark for what it is.
A daunting task to get a black ark down that river but the perfect place to strike from.

To bring the Shadow warriors in a bit, the Dark Elves have a base in Mordheim, so off they go to find it and have vengeance.

[Ansob.]

Elves are lost and brought to Mordheim. Once there they can and will search for any valuable resources. The Captain of the Ark brings with him a couple of warriors, around a tenth of the Ark's total forces. As he pillages the town he has to fight with several aberrations and human scavengers. However, when he reaches the Ark, there is no Ark...
It's as simple as this. It's a simple plotline, full of possibilities and that can easily and truly explain why Druchii are in that city.

What do you think then?

En vrac: Ark, way too important for the captain to go out. How about this: Ark lost, beaches near Mordheim, sorceresses hide it, party sent in to collect wyrdstone necessary to repair the pit of dark sorcery that fuels it (forgot the name).
Morathi, yes, as much as I despise anything which has a tie to Slaanesh or Chaos in general (Chaos elves...), yes. This seems the most likely, and fluffy: warriors sent on a mission by the heads of the convent themselves (which they met face to face! By Jove, this must be an important mission!). No, wait - warriors sent on the mission by Morathi, unbeknownst to the convent leaders (maybe one of them is getting too powerful, or something - in any case, Morathi needs the wyrdstone to assert her power, we need not know more than that) to get wyrdstone, they're brought in on a swift druchii infiltrator ship that sails by night, magically camouflaged, etc., it drops them off near the city, they make for it, the ship leaves to go back to the sea and join whatever (Ark, armada; its bodyguard, payed for by the convents, well, Morathi, yada yada yada) and returns once in a whiel to collect wyrdstone/plunder. Fluff only, the time does not affect the game in any way.

Basically, Nekroskop's plotline, although less interesting than Anaryin's catastrophic scenario which I tweaked a bit (:D), is a lot truer to our character and closer to "reality." It just need background elaborated on a bit (which is what I did, kind of).

Edit: Mielkith summed up what I meant about the Ark.

Edit 2: thinking on the money issue in Mordheim, two possible sources of income: case A (Ark): DE refuse to handle human money, it's crude, blah blah, Ark gives them funds (see Sisters of Sigmar); case B (hired): actually use money, we're Druchii after all, money's money...
And captured warband members:
I propose that we get both skaven and possessed ways of disposal (in addition to ransoming): either sold to the captain of the infiltrator for Xd6 gc (i.e. skaven), or sacrificed to Khaine for 1XP (i.e. possessed).

[Arquinsiel]

Maybe some of the warbands in the city are survivors of expeditions through the underway to find out exactly how big it is (and discovered that it connects to the skaven under-empire).

[Mime]

Form what I understand of arcs, getting one up a river is going to take a little more than a few illusions. They're like Icebergs remember, about 98% of them exists below the water line, not really an ideal river going vessel.

ANother idea I have for fluff is to use the power of hind sight. After mordhiem came Albion and guess what, that Dark Prince guy is instramental in both. So why not include him as the reason for being there, withe the Wyrdstone just being nobles grabbing the loot they can.

The thought of DE trying to free the DP to unlock Albion to grab all the goodies hidden fits our fluff and gives the Asur an excuse to be there as well as they atempt to stop it all happening.

This would also explain why both ourselves and the Asur had such a strong showing at Albion, being prepared to go as soon as it was unlocked.

It also lets us keep the raider theme, who better to scout for a Deamon Prince than shades and Corsairs, and also use Sorceresses, to keep an eye on magic flows etc.

Mike

[Anaryin]

I'd go with the Ark (any other ship) story.. it more feasable IMO.

[Orteo]

We also have to make sure the fluff we create isn't too limiting. There is more than one druchii party in Mordheim, so we have to make sure the fluff represents this. I suppose it is possible the same ship sends out multiple parties, but how many can get stranded? This line of thought, while interesting, seems more suited for someone's individual fluff rather than the Druchii fluff as a whole.

Look at the fluff for the other lists. While we probably won't be able to make ours as open as theirs, we need to try. Remember that there can be more than one reason for Druchii to be in the city, but we need to relate them somehow so it doesn't seem to coincidental and random.

[Draenor]

Just a few quick observations on the current list:

Why are Highborns in the Druchii War Band? No other war band has the WHFB equivilent of a Lord level character in their lists (as far as I know). Why would Highborns be in a war band anyway?
I propose to rename the current leader character with something else.

Here are some fluff reasons I came up with that is open enough to include the fluff from other lists; fluff from WHFB; fluff that is not too specific to one Druchii group; allows for creative customization and is (IMHO) uniquely Druchii:

Suggested List:


Black Shade (Leader)
Reavers
Sorceresses
Beast Master
Assasssin

Shades
Corsairs


Reason for being…
Since the dawn of mankind, the Elves have been watching the humans cumbersomely develop into the awkward culture that they are today. The Druchii, in keeping with their elfish nature, curiously watch the Old World but also endlessly endeavor to sabotage the plans and developments of both the humans and the Asur in this region.

This brings us to Mordhiem. Hundreds of isolated scouting units and forces creep stealthily through the cracks of the Old World societies, Mordhiem is no different.

That money issue...
Mordhiem is abundant in wrydstone and this seemingly useless rock has become a valuable currency when buying information and supplies and dealing with the human filth. The stone can also buy safe passage through the twisted tunnel networks of the Skaven vermin.

The Backbone...
Shades:
Shades obviously composite a larger section of the Druchii scouting parties and thus are seen commonly in most war bands. Although they are the most “informed” divisions in the Druchii war host, the segments of information they retrieve and deliver is not enough for them to fully understand their purpose. Their quests are often shrouded in mystery, where only the “Higher Authorities” can see the bigger picture. Black Shades are the veteran shades who control the scout parties, often they are nobles who have been demoted and in a sense “exiled”. They control the distribution of supplies, information and lead the missions.

Corsairs:
The “Higher Authorities” have spread rumors and lies amongst the ranks of the corsairs, promising that the wealth and slaves inland are far more plentiful than what can be found along the coastlines. They need to “spire” recruits to “volunteer” for scouting campaigns, which (as most soldiers realize) means slim chances of survival. Often enough, adventurous Reavers and corsairs take up the challenge and leave their ships only to find themselves venturing inland with scout groups. They will hunt with the group, seeking riches; continuing with the party until they are either satisfied or the team is disbanded.

They have a way with people…
Espionage:
* All of the troops in a scouting party are important to the survival and success of the war band. When gathering information, shades are instrumental. They are experts in finding cunning and deceptive means of entering impenetrable areas or persuading stubborn guards.

* When “deals” go bad or the presence of the group is detected, corsairs are a necessity in slashing out an escape route. They therefore form the tougher physical backbone to the group.

* Once information has been gleamed from captives or informants, it is the Sorceress’s job to send it to Naggaroth but whatever magical means are available.

Reconnaissance:
* As mentioned previously Shades are expert scouts, and their knowledge of the human society, culture and customs has made them crucial in formulating new strategies against the human dogs.

* Since Corsairs come from a slavers background, they share similar knowledge with the Shades, however have far more experience in understanding human behavior. Especially humans under torture.

Sabotage:
* Missions sent from Naggaroth sometimes require more drastic or aggressive approaches and reinforcements are shipped into assist with the sabotage or assassination attempt. Shades will usually guide the saboteur force towards the objective. These forces will usually include Assassins, Beast Masters and a healthy dose of corsairs.

* The Beast Master contributes his ability to not only seduce enemy creatures, but to also goad terrible animals from Naggaroth into battle. These beasts can simply be let loose into a small town or estate and wreck uncontrollable havoc, perhaps creating a diversion for a more insidious Druchii plan.

(espionage, sabotage and reconnissannce are not intended to be rule proposals, but just extra fluff.)

yes / no? What do you think?

[Ansob.]

Just a few quick observations on the current list:

Why are Highborns in the Druchii War Band? No other war band has the WHFB equivilent of a Lord level character in their lists (as far as I know). Why would Highborns be in a war band anyway?
I propose to rename the current leader character with something else.

Here are some fluff reasons I came up with that is open enough to include the fluff from other lists; fluff from WHFB; fluff that is not too specific to one Druchii group; allows for creative customization and is (IMHO) uniquely Druchii:

Suggested List:


Black Shade (Leader) No!
Reavers
Sorceresses
Beast Master
Assasssin
Thing is, these are much too raider-themed. You know a highborn can be the last son of some major household, yes? And that besides, nothing prevents you from deciding that your individual gang leader is not a highborn?
No, these names are bad, IMHO - no offense meant. We should keep the Highborn, Sorceress and BM. No Assassins for us as heroes, they're hired swords, remember? I propose HB/Noble (that was the Fellblade - a model that does not exist neither in fluff nor in flesh; this name change allows us to keep with our current fluff and allow these to take missile weapons)/Sorceress/Beastmaster.

Shades
Corsairs


Reason for being…
Since the dawn of mankind, the Elves have been watching the humans cumbersomely develop into the awkward culture that they are today. The Druchii, in keeping with their elfish nature, curiously watch the Old World but also endlessly endeavor to sabotage the plans and developments of both the humans and the Asur in this region.

This brings us to Mordhiem. Hundreds of isolated scouting units and forces creep stealthily through the cracks of the Old World societies, Mordhiem is no different.
That's good idea. *muses* The only thing is, it gets us to the following problem - our arrogant elves have no reason to seek to halt the development of human society, since it is so very inferior to ours - see what I mean?
I still think that the convent-hired parties is the best idea.

That money issue...
Mordheim is abundant in wrydstone and this seemingly useless rock has become a valuable currency when buying information and supplies and dealing with the human filth. The stone can also buy safe passage through the twisted tunnel networks of the Skaven vermin.

The Backbone...
Shades:
Shades obviously composite a larger section of the Druchii scouting parties and thus are seen commonly in most war bands. Although they are the most “informed” divisions in the Druchii war host, the segments of information they retrieve and deliver is not enough for them to fully understand their purpose. Their quests are often shrouded in mystery, where only the “Higher Authorities” can see the bigger picture. Black Shades are the veteran shades who control the scout parties, often they are nobles who have been demoted and in a sense “exiled”. They control the distribution of supplies, information and lead the missions.

Corsairs:
The “Higher Authorities” have spread rumors and lies amongst the ranks of the corsairs, promising that the wealth and slaves inland are far more plentiful than what can be found along the coastlines. They need to “spire” recruits to “volunteer” for scouting campaigns, which (as most soldiers realize) means slim chances of survival. Often enough, adventurous Reavers and corsairs take up the challenge and leave their ships only to find themselves venturing inland with scout groups. They will hunt with the group, seeking riches; continuing with the party until they are either satisfied or the team is disbanded.

They have a way with people…
Espionage:
* All of the troops in a scouting party are important to the survival and success of the war band. When gathering information, shades are instrumental. They are experts in finding cunning and deceptive means of entering impenetrable areas or persuading stubborn guards.

* When “deals” go bad or the presence of the group is detected, corsairs are a necessity in slashing out an escape route. They therefore form the tougher physical backbone to the group.

* Once information has been gleamed from captives or informants, it is the Sorceress’s job to send it to Naggaroth but whatever magical means are available.

Reconnaissance:
* As mentioned previously Shades are expert scouts, and their knowledge of the human society, culture and customs has made them crucial in formulating new strategies against the human dogs.

* Since Corsairs come from a slavers background, they share similar knowledge with the Shades, however have far more experience in understanding human behavior. Especially humans under torture.

Sabotage:
* Missions sent from Naggaroth sometimes require more drastic or aggressive approaches and reinforcements are shipped into assist with the sabotage or assassination attempt. Shades will usually guide the saboteur force towards the objective. These forces will usually include Assassins, Beast Masters and a healthy dose of corsairs.

* The Beast Master contributes his ability to not only seduce enemy creatures, but to also goad terrible animals from Naggaroth into battle. These beasts can simply be let loose into a small town or estate and wreck uncontrollable havoc, perhaps creating a diversion for a more insidious Druchii plan.

(espionage, sabotage and reconnissannce are not intended to be rule proposals, but just extra fluff.)

yes / no? What do you think?
I have only one problem with all this: it doesn't sound even remotely DEish. We have to keep with GW "uninformed" point of vue (basically, their giving an image to non Druchii players which we, as Druchii players, no is not the exact truth, but is sufficient for the others in that it's almost like "rumours" concerning us - get what I mean?), i.e. we are the evil elves from beyond the sea who come to plunder, take lives and take slaves who will then be horribly tortured. Arr, shiver me timbers, mateys.

[Pagan-gerbil]

Hey all, just thought I'd throw my two cents in....

Dark Elves are masters of deception, right? The War of the Beard, and all that...

Well, from what I remember of the Warhammer rulebook, Dark Elves are mentioned in passing, and less than fully-fledged elves. It's likely that 500 years ago (Mordheim-era) there was less known difference between them - and imagine the scenario in Mordheim, where no-one is... well, exceptionally diplomatically trained, and if you see an Elf you're likely to think "Those Elves from Ulthuan" that you heard about as a young lad. Skaven are less likely to care about the difference, elves is elves.

The perfect way to start hampering relations between humans and elves.

Ruined city in the Empire, Elves are there 'in force' and murdering everyone in sight, taking evil wyrdstone and casting fell magics. Anything that will harm the High Elves alliances or image is a boon to the Dark Elves (and as mentioned before, they remember how well the War of the Beard concluded).

Other than that, does anyone have a clue what the major events of the time-period were? I don't have my books to hand right now, but I can check them up later if need be.

[Arquinsiel]

Great war against chaosy type thing wasn't it?

[Ansob.]

Other than that, does anyone have a clue what the major events of the time-period were? I don't have my books to hand right now, but I can check them up later if need be.

http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/cgi-bin/wfbtl.cgi?all

1999: destruction of Mordheim by a twin-tailed comet.

Check the events going on for the previous fifty years - that's nothing in elven terms. I haven't looked yet, but I'm going to do that now.

Edit: check from 1131 onward (rebuilding of Tor Anlec). The tampering with elven/human relations is a great idea, methinks.

[Anaryin]

Hmm, it's possible also. So, to sum up we have this:

1) The Convents send ppl there to explore

2) Ark / ship (entire fleet?) shipwrecks and wanders until they get to Mordheim.

3) Elves following Asur and humans eventually get to Mordheim

If I missed something, just tell ok? I'm just summing up

Which ones do you agree with and why. Which ones do you don't agree with and why. This way we can also sum up both pros and cons of each idea.

Anaryin

[Arquinsiel]

Well I have a few ideas that sprang form fluff that might be interesting but if you want the fluff settled first then that's okay.

Edit: It seems we have a three hundred year window between the comit hitting mordheim and magnus being in a position to raze it. Also this might be some fluff support for my underway theory:

783 Dark Elf scouts discover way through Underworld to High Elf colony Arnhelm in New World. WA: Dark Elves 4th ed

[Ansob.]

Hmm, it's possible also. So, to sum up we have this:

1) The Convents send ppl there to explore
Yes. Druchii-ish, convents manipulating people and seeking to gain power.

2) Ark / ship (entire fleet?) shipwrecks and wanders until they get to Mordheim.
No. Too restrictive, doesn't allow for more than a few parties and just too unbelievable because of the size of it.

3) Druchii discover passage through Underway to Mordheim.
Also hard to believe. A "chance discovery?" That would mean what, a single, two at the very most, teams, and they could hardly travel the entire length of the ocean that spans between the Old World and Naggaroth...

4) Druchii decide to tamper with human/asur relations, using the fact that to any human "an elf is an elf."
Yes! Me likes! Perfectly in character, too. All we have to say is that it ultimately failed, which is why there was no major asur/human war (or was there? If there was, this is what led to it. Or any other not too minor conflict between asur and humans). Link it to more recent events. The more time flies, the better I find this one. I still think that it's toying with fire, though - the "sent by convents" background is much easier to pull off, a lot less ambitious...
Well, the question is as follows: will audacity pay off?


If I missed something, just tell ok? I'm just summing up
Delt with, I think.

Which ones do you agree with and why. Which ones do you don't agree with and why. This way we can also sum up both pros and cons of each idea.

Anaryin

[Arquinsiel]

If skaven can manage it so can we. As I said these are survivors of a larger expedition or two. There is the possibility of them having carried large amounts of supplies with them and that the expedition, on having been overwhelmed by sheer skaven numbers, has fractured into several smaller groups as they're persued through the under-empire.

[Ansob.]

By the way, concerning the timeline - only possibly interesting event I found is Finubar's expedition in 2001. Druchii spies discovered this, decided to go mess around with diplomatic relationships?

[Arquinsiel]

Yeah, why not? Maybe it's just that we've heard about the wyrdstone and wish to prevent Finubar gathering it for the Asur's use since we'd grab it all and smite them good if we could.

[Ranieth]

I like the idea about the druchii saboutaging the asur-human relationship. Seems pretty likely.
It might have lead to a battle mentioned in fluff in the BRB, I dunno what page. Anyways, a dragon died. A high elf one!

[Pagan-gerbil]

Well, Skaven are deliberately small groups sent by Clan Eshin because a) that's how they work best, and b) they don't want to draw the attentions of other clans. The sabotage idea would justify small groups because that's what the Asur are doing OR to allow them great maneuverability and secrecy within Mordheim... because while elves are elves, a Druchii city in the middle of Mordheim is going to look a little shady even to humans.

On another note, are we going to try and bring Asur to Mordheim as well, or are we leaving that to someone else?

[Ansob.]

On another note, are we going to try and bring Asur to Mordheim as well, or are we leaving that to someone else?

It'd be great if we could work with the guys over at Asur.org and get them both in, really. However, that's left to the heads, I guess.

[Mielkith]

I will vote for the Sabotaging Elven-Human relationships as the reason why we are in Mordheim to start with. Plots can always develop from this as we discover Wierdstone and the Shadow Lord.
Here is a long shot to explain the presence of Assassins in Mordheim.
In the early days when we first arrived part of the plan was to assasinate certain leaders leaving evidence incriminating the High Elves.
The Elves in the Empire soon learn about the Shadowlord and determine what he is. With out bothering to informin the higher powers back in Naggaroth the Sorceresses set about trying to free him then use him for there own ends (power to the cult, attacking Ulthuan).
The assassins being devoted followers of Khaine and with the memory of the last time they tried to control chaos decide this is not the path to go down. They leave the warbands to their fate.
They will not sabotage the main mission by simply slaughtering all the Dark elves that throw their lot in with the Sorceresses. Instead they carry on the mssion, selling there services for money to survive in isolation.

Granted this has some holes in it but we need to bring the assassin to mordheim too. I hope there are some ideas in this that you can use.
BTW still routing for that Black Ark as a base of operations. Its just too cooler image to get out of my head.


As for the Asur, that was a GW created list unlike the Druchii. Im sure GW has there own plans for those guys. If they did want someone to make one for them, who are we to say no?