Dark Elves Warband - Alpha

Discuss and participate in the development of the Mordheim Druchii warband here.

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Anaryin
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Dark Elves Warband - Alpha

Post by Anaryin »

Tear it apart please. Say what you agreed and what you don't. Give alternatives, be coherent and polite.

I'll personally delete all "junk" posts like one liners saying "I don't like this" without fundaments...


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Mordheim : Druchii warband


None there are living who know the ways of the elves, save perhaps the mighty lizard-priests of the South whose knowledge and power is rumoured to grow far beyond that even of the High Mages of the College of Magic of Altdorf. Those few elves who roam the lands of the Empire are mysterious, their ways impenetrable to us.
There are those who, like Finubar the Proud, openly declare themselves Manfriend and help defend our glorious Empire from the encroaching forces of Chaos - too few of them, unfortunately. Of those, we know what they would have us know - their history and that of their families, and a little of the history of their land - the fabled island of Ulthuan. There are those who stalk the night, warriors who come cloaked in darkness and wielding bows, the death in their eyes mirrored in their prey as their life is snuffed out like a candle atop Brass Keep by one, well-placed arrow shot - of those we know little, save that they name themselves "Shadow warriors of Nagarythe" and, as their kindred of Ulthuan reassure us, they seek to do us no harm. There are those who protect the forests, defending them from touch of Chaos and Man alike.
There are also rumours of a fourth breed of elves - a grim race, ruthless and sadistic. They come at night in their low ships with sails of midnight-black, craving the poison that lurks within the now-ruins of Mordheim, the Weyrdstone of which all those who go to the Cursed City and return speak. They leave no witnesses, taking prisoner those who are able-bodied enough to toil under them in slavery, murdering the others.
Of course, such nonsense is only that - rumours, and nonsense, the delusional affabulations of crazed minds that have seen the taint of Chaos from too close. It may be that some elves are more ruthless than others, but they are just that - elves, and their ways are closed to us.



Choice of Warriors

A Druchii warband must include a minimum of three models. You have 500 gold crowns to recruit your initial warband. The maximum number of warriors in a warband may never exceed 12.

  • Heroes
    Highborn Each Druchii warband must have one Highborn to lead it - no more, no less.
    Nobles Your warband may include up to two Nobles.
    Beastmaster Your warband may include one Beastmaster..
    Sorceress Your warband may include one Sorceress.
    Hag Trainee Your warband may include one hag Trainee.
    Note: if you warband includes a Hag Trainee, it cannot include a Sorceress (and vice versa).
  • Henchmen
    Corsairs Your warband may include any number of corsairs.
    Shades Your warband may include up to five shades.
    Warhounds Your warband may include up to three hounds if it also includes a Beastmaster.

Starting Experience

Highborn starts with 20 experience.
Nobles start with 12 experience.
Sorceress starts with 12 experience.
Hag Trainee starts with 12 experience.
Beastmaster starts with 8 experience.
Henchmen start with 0 experience.

Maximum Characteristics

Characteristics for Druchii warriors may not be increased beyond the maximum limits shown here:

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 7 7 4 3 3 9 5 10





Special Rules

Kindred Hatred The Dark Elves have been fighting the High Elves for many centuries. The wars between these two races have been very long and bloody affairs. Dark Elves Hate any High Elf warriors including High Elf Hired Swords.

Excellent Sight There are numerous legends detailing the excellent eyesight of the Elves, both Druchii and Asur kin. Elves can spot Hidden enemies from twice as far away than normal warriors (i.e. twice their Initiative value in inches).

Disdain Dark Elves may never use black powder weapons as they find them too crude, noisy and unreliable.

Druchii equipment lists
The following lists are used by Druchii warbands to pick their weapons:



Druchii equipment list
Hand-to-hand Combat Weapons
Dagger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1st free/2 gc
Axe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Sword . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Double-handed weapon . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Halberd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Spear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Beastlash . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Missile Weapons
Repeater Crossbow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 gc
Crossbow Pistol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 gc
Armour
Helmet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Light armour . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 gc
Shield . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Buckler . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Special Equipment
Darksteel Blade* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 15 gc
Dark Venom* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Sea Dragon Cloak** . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 gc
* May be taken by Heroes only.
** May be taken by Heroes and Corsairs only.

Shades equipment list
Hand-to-hand Combat Weapons
Dagger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1st free/2 gc
Axe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5 gc
Sword . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Missile Weapons
Repeater Crossbow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 gc
Armour
Helmet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Light armour . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 gc


Druchii skill table

Highborn Combat - Shooting - Academic - Speed - Special
Noble Combat - Shooting - Speed - Special
Sorceress Academic - Speed - Special
Hag Trainee Combat - Speed - Special
Beastmaster Combat - Speed - Special
Heroes

1 Highborn
70 Gold Crowns to hire
Dark Elf Leaders are typically drawn from the Dark Elf nobility and lead the warband in search of gold, slaves and arcane artifacts to bring home to Naggaroth. They are cold and ruthless killers and they command the respect of their troops through assassination and terror. They have attained their position of leadership by eliminating rival nobleborns who stand in their way and through their remarkable cunning, they are dangerous foes who embody the merciless traits of the Druchii race.

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 5 4 3 3 1 6 1 9

Weapons/Armour A Highborn may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Dark Elf Equipment list.

Special Rules
Leader Any models in the warband within 6" of the High Born may use his Leadership instead of their own.

0-2 Nobles
40 Gold Crowns to hire
Nobles are would-be commanders of the Druchii forces, and often serve under a Highborn as page or lieutenant. Nobles accompany raiding parties to the Old World to further their career, seeking to acquire fame, riches and status in the Witch King’s court.

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 4 3 3 1 6 1 8

Weapons/Armour Nobles may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Druchii equipment list.

0-1 Beastmaster
45 Gold Crowns to hire
Whereas the High Elves have a great affinity with Dragons and Griffons and other noble creatures their malevolent kin have infamous Beastmasters, Dark Elves of particularly cruel renown who breed many vicious beasts and lead them into contact. Unlike the High Elves who treat their beasts as companions, the Dark Elf Beastmasters are very spiteful masters.

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 3 3 3 1 5 1 8

Weapons/Armour A Beastmaster may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Druchii equipment list.

Special Rules
Warhounds The Beastmaster may be accompanied by up to two Warhounds. These are bought as henchmen and follow all rules for listed for them.

0-1 Dark Elf Sorceress
60 Gold Crowns to hire
Dark Elves are strange in that apart from the fell Witch King there are no other male sorcerers - all the other practitioners of magic in the Dark Elf race are female. It is rumoured that any males who do develop an affinity for magic amongst the Dark Elves are immediately put to death to prevent the fulfilling of some dark prophecy.
Dark Elf Sorceresses are mysterious, raven-haired beauties who are grudgingly respected even by the powerful Highborns, and their services are high in demand.

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 3 1 5 1 8

Weapons/Armour The Sorceress may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Druchii equipment list, but may not cast spells if wearing armour.

Special Rules
Wizard The Dark Elf Sorceress is a wizard and uses Dark Magic, detailed below.

0-1 Hag Trainee
60 Gold Crowns to hire
Witch Elves are the lethally beautiful followers of Khaine, the Bloody-Handed god of murder, vengeance and war. Hag Trainees are those amongst the devoted who seek to become priestesses of Khaine and learn his holy canons. They are sent on missions for the Temple, to prove their worth in the eyes of their god.

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 5 3 3 3 1 6 1 8

Weapons/Armour The Hag Trainee may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Shades equipment list.

Special Rules
Frenzied The Hag Trainee follows the Frenzy special rule.



Henchmen
Bought in groups of 1-5.


Corsairs
35 Gold Crowns to hire
The Dark Elves are cruel and fierce fighters. This is especially true of the Corsairs - the Black Ark Raiders. They are skilled with sword and axe, as well as the repeater crossbow, the distinct missile weapon of the Dark Elves. Whenever [according fluff], the Corsairs are the first to launch raiding parties.

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 3 3 3 1 5 1 8

Weapons/Armour Corsairs may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Dark Elf Equipment list. In addition they may wear Sea Dragon Cloaks even though they are not heroes.

0-5 Shades
35 Gold Crowns to hire
The stealthy Dark Elf Scouts rely on their repeater crossbows to harass and snipe at the enemy, rather than engaging them head on as ambush is the preferred style of fighting. Shades are young and inexperienced scouts that see the expeditions to the Old World as a valuable training opportunity.

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 4 3 3 1 5 1 8

Weapons/Armour Shades may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Shades Equipment list.

Natural Stealth The first thing that Dark Elf scouts master is the art of moving without being seen or heard. If a Dark Elf is Hiding, enemy models suffer -1 to their Initiative value for determining if they can detect him.



0-3 Warhounds
25 Gold Crowns to hire
The Dark Elves capture and breed many exotic creatures to fight for them and fights between pets are often staged as a form of entertainment amongst the Dark Elves. Myriad of such animals can be discovered in the Chaos Wastes. Among them is the Warhound, a fierce breed of attack hounds that resemble wolves more than dogs. The Dark Elves capture and train these creatures to fight in battles all over the Warhammer World.

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
7 4 0 3 3 1 3 1 5

Weapons/Armour Warhounds are animals and do not need any weapons, save their claws and massive jaws.

Special Rules
Animals Warhounds are animals, and all animal rules apply to them. They never gain experience.

Beastmaster Warhounds are vicious creatures that are barely kept under control. If the Beastmaster dies the beasts will immediately escape from the warband - remove them from the warband roster. If the Beastmaster is unable to participate in a battle, then neither will the beasts.

Trained Warhounds may use the basic Leadership of the Beastmaster if they are within 6" of him. They may never use the Leadership of the warband leader, but they may benefit from the Beastmaster’s increased Leadership if he is within 6" of the leader.


Special Equipment


Darksteel Weapon
(+20 gold crowns to weapon/Rare 9)
Darksteel weapons are forged in the city of Hag Graef, the Dark Crag. They are fashioned from Blacksteel, a rare form of steel found deep within the mountains around the city. Darksteel weapons have wicked protrusions and serrated edges, which inflict serious damage on an opponent. Any Druchii can upgrade a weapon to a Darksteel weapon by paying an additional 20 gc at the time of purchase. Weapons upgraded to a Darksteel Weapon retain all of their abilities (i.e. swords can parry, double-handed weapons strike last).

Range Close Combat; Strength As user; Special Rules Critical Damage, Wicked Edge.

Special Rules
Critical Damage Darksteel weapons inflict serious damage on their opponents. When rolling on the critical hit chart, a Darksteel weapon will add +1 to the result.

Wicked Edge Darksteel weapons are set with sharp protrusions and serrated edges which inflict serious damage on an opponent. A roll of 2-4 on the injury table is a stunned result.




Beastlash (Beastmaster only)
(10+D6 Gold Crowns/Rare 8 )
The Beastmaster make good use of their whips to goad their hounds and creatures into combat.

Range Close Combat; Strength As user -1; Special Rules Beastbane, Reach.

Special Rules
Beastbane The Beastmaster wielding a Beastlash causes Fear in animals, any animal charged or wishing to charge a Beastmaster with one of these weapons must first take a fear test as mentioned in the psychology section of the Mordheim rules.

Reach A Beastlash may attack opponents up to 4" away (see Sisters of Sigmar Steelwhip).

Sea Dragon Cloak
(50+2D6 Gold Crowns/Rare 10)
Dark Elf Corsairs use special cloaks fashioned from the skin and scales of the sea monsters that dwell deep in the oceans depths. These cloaks are tough and resilient, and offer Dark Elves a very good amount of protection.



Special Rules
Scales 5+ armour save in close combat, 4+ armour save against missiles.




Druchii Skill Table
Dark Elf Heroes may use the following Skill table instead of any of the standard skill tables available to them:


Fury of Khaine
The Dark Elf is infused with an intense raging thirst for blood and is a whirlwind in hand-to-hand combat, moving from opponent to opponent. The Druchii may make a 4" follow up move if he takes all of his opponents out of action. If he comes into contact with another enemy, this starts a new combat. This
new combat takes place in the following turn and the model counts as charging.

Powerful Build
The warrior is strongly built for an Elf and is capable of feats of strength. A warrior with this skill may choose skills from the Strength table. The Sorceress may never take this skill and no more than two warriors in the
warband may take this skill at any one time.

Fey Quickness
Few can ever hope to match an Elf ’s inhuman quickness and agility. An Elf with Fey Quickness can avoid melee or missile attacks on a roll of 6. If the Elf also has Step Aside or Dodge this will increase to a 4+ in the relevant area. For example, an Elf with Fey Quickness and Step Aside avoids melee attacks on a 4+ and missile attacks on a 6.

Infiltration
The Dark Elf can infiltrate, this skill is exactly the same as the Skaven skill.

Master of Poisons
The Druchii is proficient in concocting different poisons. If the Hero doesn’t search for rare items, he may make D3-1 doses of Dark Venom instead. There is a chance of getting none, as the hero doesn’t have access to a stable workplace. The poison cannot be sold or traded to other warbands as the Dark Elves guard their secrets very carefully.


Dark Magic


Like their hated Asur kin, the Dark Elves are accomplished practitioners of magic. However, whereas the High Elves essentially use magic defensively and for the power of good, the Dark Elves utilise the evil powers of Dark Magic - a very destructive force indeed.

D6 Result
1 Doombolt
Difficulty 8
Whispering an ancient incantation, the Sorceress conjures a bolt of pure dark energy and unleashes it from her outstretched hand.
The Doombolt may be targeted at any enemy model in line of sight. The bolt has an 18" range and causes a Strength 5 hit. If the target model is wounded, then the next closest model within 6" is also hit on a 4+, at -1 Strength than the previous hit. The bolt will keep leaping until there are no more targets within range or until its Strength drops to a one. Take armour saves as normal.


2 Word of Pain
Difficulty 8
The Sorceress calls down the wrath of Khaine upon her enemy, causing his resolve to disappear.
The spell may be cast at an enemy model within 12". The victim must re-roll all successful hand to hand or missile attacks and all to wound rolls. If the victim wishes to charge, he must pass a successful Leadership test first. Lasts until the beginning of the next Dark Elf turn.



3 Soul Stealer
Difficulty 9
At the Sorceress’s touch, the essence of life is drained from her enemy and absorbed into her body, giving her renewed strength and vigour.
Once successfully cast, the Sorceress has to make a to hit roll against a model in base contact. If the attack is successful and her opponent is struck, he suffers a wound with no armour save possible. The Sorceress feeds on this life-force and adds one wound to her current total.
Note: the Sorceress can never have more then one extra wound on her profile from the use of this spell(she may cast it as many times as she wishes to regain lost wounds) and the extra wound is lost once the battle is over.

4 Black Blade of Khaine
Difficulty 8
Summoning Dark Magic, the Sorceress engulfs a weapon in twisted black flames.
The Sorceress may choose the hand-to-hand combat weapon of a member of her warband within 6" to be engulfed in flames. A weapon with these flames acts as a normal weapon of its type, but adds a +2 bonus to the user’s Strength. Hits inflicted from the weapon ignore armour saves. Lasts until the Sorceress’ next shooting
phase.

5 Deathspasm
Difficulty 9
The Sorceress channels Dark Magic into her enemy, causing him to writhe in excruciating pain.
The Deathspasm has a range of 6" and must be cast on the closest enemy model. The affected model must roll on the injury chart. If successfully cast, the casting Sorceress is immediately knocked down. This cannot be prevented by using the Jump Up skill.



6 Witch Flight
Difficulty 7
The Sorceress bends the winds of magic to her will and flies through the air.
The Sorceress may immediately move anywhere within 12", and may count as charging. If she engages a fleeing enemy in the close combat phase, she will score 1 automatic hit and then the opponent will flee again.
Last edited by Anaryin on Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anaryin
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Post by Anaryin »

Formatter's note: If you find a mistake in the formatting or spelling please say it ;)
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Heldrak
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Post by Heldrak »

So, the only real changes you are proposing from the current unofficial Druchii Lustria rules are that Nobles replace Fellblades (and are thus able to use missile weapons) and that Warhounds replace Cold One Beasthounds (and thus are not stupid), plus you are adding a Witch Elf-style Hero. Is that correct?

To my mind those are welcome changes, although I find the title "Hag Trainee" to be awkward (it sounds like she has to wear a paper hat)- why not just say Witch Elf, Mebd, or Bride Of Khaine?

I like the proviso that Sorceresses & Hag Tainees (or whatever) are not allowed in the same warband.

I think that the disdain for black powder weapons needs to be re-examined in light of the ability of the High Elf Shadow Warrior warband to use them. I think that dislike of black powder needs to be a trait that all Elves share or none. If anything, dark elf ruthlessness would push them towards a wider variety of weapon types rather than away.

The Starting cost for things appear to be the same as well- I would suggest re-examining the points with a eye towards tweaking them downwards. Under the Lustria rules starting DE warbands were always at a significant disadvantage based on their extreme cost.

I think the background/fluff looks great!
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Mielkith
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Post by Mielkith »

Beastlash's reach has chained to whip crack in the revision.

It doesn't seem to be much different. A new hero and henchman and a stat change here and there. I imagined a new list would be have more then that.

A highborn and two nobles would have atleast 2000pts in warhammer. I cannot imagine elves of such wealth with large armies to do their bidding would put their lives on the line so readily.

How about the Highborn becoming a Noble and the Nobles becomming champions, body guards or Squires. Something along those lines.

I6 has always been a bit high for anything other then the commanding figure. Try I5 for everyone but the Highborn (and the hounds).

If we are two have a covent or a temple character I suggest re-nameing the spell "Black Blade of Khaine". "rapturous steel" is my offering for it, or "Bright pink blade of Slaanesh".

I was sceptical when you mentioned Chaos Warhounds but you have made it work. I suppose we can keep the beastmaster if only to keep them.

"** May be taken by Heroes and Corsairs only. " Might as well leave that out. Shades have a different equipment list and the hounds can;t use any equipment what so ever.

Why does the Temple Hero use the shades equipment list? Give her the fellblades old rule (dis-allowing missile weapons) and give her access to a greater range of weapons.

Dark Elves are underpowered at first and over powered later. I would leave the costs as they are to keep that balance, or find away to make them average later.

And please add the standard cross-bow to te equipment list. I can't see why a Druchii wouldn't use them, without black powder weapons we have nothing capable of piercing armour from a distance.
Last edited by Mielkith on Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vorchild
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Post by Vorchild »

Heldrak wrote:So, the only real changes you are proposing from the current unofficial Druchii Lustria rules are that Nobles replace Fellblades (and are thus able to use missile weapons) and that Warhounds replace Cold One Beasthounds (and thus are not stupid), plus you are adding a Witch Elf-style Hero. Is that correct?
.

I hope so. Those changes are simple and quite effective I think.

That being said, did anyone ever bring up the cost for crossbow pistols and RXBs? Lets be real honest about that - they don't benefit from the most fun of the shooting abilities, and they cost 350% of the price for a bow in order to get allthe same rules with the addition of 1 extra shot at -1 to hit. I realise that you can come up with a real shooty warband (I've done it even with the current price - 6 RXBs and a marksman crossbow), but even at 25 they are still more expensive than they are truly worth. Just a pet peeve of mine really. ;) The changes overall look pretty good. :)
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Anaryin
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Post by Anaryin »

Give alternatives. This list is the result of the other topic: Mordheim Overhaul :)
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Loflar
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Post by Loflar »

I have found some inconsistencies.

1) Equipment lists are sometimes called Druchii, sometimes DE. It should be the same.
2) Warhounds. 2 or 3?

I agree with Mielkith's note about titles. Highborn is equivalent of Imperial general. Such a small band should be led by equivalent of captain, i.e. noble.

Why are they limited to 12 and not to 15? Just curious.

Why not to give them access to bow? It is cheap and they certainly know, how to use it. RXB could be cheaper for starting band and more expensive and rare for later purchase (IIRC Skaven have similar rules).

In Special rules for beastmaster (warhounds) you have two "for". Delete the 4th word from end of paragraph.

If the beastlash is limited to beastmaster, it should be also stated in weapon list. However, does it need such limit? I just think, that it would make cute fashion item for sorceress ;-)
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Heldrak
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Post by Heldrak »

A highborn and two nobles would have atleast 2000pts in warhammer. I cannot imagine elves of such wealth with large armies to do their bidding would put their lives on the line so readily.

How about the Highborn becoming a Noble and the Nobles becomming champions, body guards or Squires. Something along those lines.


Highborn & Noble are just titles, a Highborn in Mordheim should not be assumed to have the same abilities & points cost as their counterpart in Warhammer. There is also a precedent for calling the leader of the Druchii warband a Highborn from the previous Lustria list. Don't you think any Druchii leader would style himself a Highborn as soon as there was no one else of higher rank around to challenge him, regardless of his actual rank?

"Dark Elf" and "Druchii" are used interchangebly in GW's own publications, so i see no need to worry about internal consistency in this document.
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Mielkith
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Post by Mielkith »

Highborn is an acceptable name for the leader but the two nobles I think really have to change. A highborns ambition can go unchecked but he would be sure the others could not rival his own title.
A noble would be capable of funding his own party so I can't see why he would share one with another noble, let alone serve another when he could must as easily be the ruling member.

How about Lordling?
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Post by Loflar »

I like the idea of Noble and two "somethings". Highborn and two nobles looks like nobility on a trip to countryside, which IMHO does not go along Mordheim theme of commoners searching ruins for treasures (or anything which could be sold).

And those somethings ... what about knights? Knight is one of lower noble titles, and it also implies some martial competence.
I know, in Warhammer they ride lizzards, but I assume, that they do it only when going to war. This time they do not go to war, they follow their liege on a covert mission.

Other possibilities include lordling and reaver. Or just champions.
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Loflar
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Post by Loflar »

One more comment about beastlash. I agree, that it should be weaker than Sigmarites steel whip. But it should be cheaper as well. Steel whip cannot be parried. IMHO beastlash should have the same rule.

And is it some exotic thing, or basically normal whip? If it is a normal whip, then it should not be rare.
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Post by Ansob. »

En vrac:
The list's had a few tweaks here and there, and nothing more - we (Arq, Any, a few other people whom I cannot remember because my memory sucks and who'll probably crucify me for forgetting them, and myself) thought that we should first change what was felt to be the biggest chinks before we did any major work on it. As a rule, we agreed we'd leave the costs as-is until later, when they could be further discussed, as they're a major element in Mordheim.
The name "Noble" is open to further discussion - it just came from the fact that the leader is a Highborn and that we needed a new name for the Fellblades. Some people, if I remember correctly, felt that having a Highborn leading a "slaving" party made no sense - if that's still heartfelt, we could swap "Highborn" for "Noble" and "Noble" for "Knight." Good find. :)
Oh, and the whole points issue - nonsense. As Mielk mentioned, you're not going to think that a Highborn in Mordheim is a Highborn in WFB; a Highborn is a noble-born, and just think back a bit - how many noble-blooded gits had no money? Besides, it even happens in the Warhammer World (Dogs of War are bankrupt princes, nobles and other highborns, amongst other things).
About the Beastlash: it is supposed to be exotic, and it was taken as-is from the Lustria .pdf (which explains the discrepancies - yeah, I know, I'm just blaming something else for my shortcomings).
As far as GW's concerned, "Druchii" and "Dark Elves" is the same thing, hence the equipment lists issue. Warhounds should have been three (for a break from two and because they're less powerful than COH).
(I just checked my file, does it say "2" anywhere? I can't see it. :?)
There will be no spells with affiliations to Slaanesh, because at that time, Cult activity must've had about one out of ten sorceresses. This is just that stupid disagreement between Hellebrone ("I'm the lead hag!") and Morathi ("No, I'm the lead hag!") - our sorceresses are still khainist, if you please. :P
Thanks for the compliment concerning the fluff, Heldrak. :) Glad you like it.
A couple more things - about starting costs, my personal opinion: no tweaking downwards. I'd like to remind people that we are elves - a dying race - and that means the usual stuff: elite troops, high points cost, etc. About the Hag Trainee bit, well... Firstly, that fluff's mine, and I like it. :P Secondly, I felt that a "simple" witch elf wasn't enough. :)
Oh, and black powder weapons - funny, I thought the same. After all, we're sneaky bastards, cunning 'n all - we should have the right to cheat and use these, since they aren't honourable. Then again, I think all elves should be banned from using them, because they're arrogant (and not honourable, so high eves not happy; then again, shadow warriors = not honourable. Following that logic, every elves should be able to use them).
I'll post this and comment on one of Mielkith's posts that drew my eye further down. :)
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Post by Ansob. »

Okay, there's more than Mielkith's post drew my eye.

Mielkith wrote:Beastlash's reach has chained to whip crack in the revision.
Mmmkay, we'll get Any to change it eventually.

It doesn't seem to be much different. A new hero and henchman and a stat change here and there. I imagined a new list would be have more then that.
Does the maxim "tweak before you change" mean anything to you? It's the procrastinator and the lazy sod's personal favourite. :P Okay, more seriously, I already said why this was only a slight tweak.

A highborn and two nobles would have atleast 2000pts in warhammer. I cannot imagine elves of such wealth with large armies to do their bidding would put their lives on the line so readily.
Already answered. :)

How about the Highborn becoming a Noble and the Nobles becomming champions, body guards or Squires. Something along those lines.
If enough people agree, we'll chnage it to "Noble" and "Knight" or some other such name. It's just a name, anyway. :P

I6 has always been a bit high for anything other then the commanding figure. Try I5 for everyone but the Highborn (and the hounds).
I6 was put there to make up for the WE's 60GC cost (which in turn is there so that it costs exactly the same thing as a sorceress and forces players to choose on playing style rather than cost).

If we are two have a covent or a temple character I suggest re-nameing the spell "Black Blade of Khaine". "rapturous steel" is my offering for it, or "Bright pink blade of Slaanesh".
Nope. No Slaaneshi creatures in here. :P

I was sceptical when you mentioned Chaos Warhounds but you have made it work. I suppose we can keep the beastmaster if only to keep them.
Thank you. *bows*

"** May be taken by Heroes and Corsairs only. " Might as well leave that out. Shades have a different equipment list and the hounds can;t use any equipment what so ever.
Wording issue; removing it from my copy.

Why does the Temple Hero use the shades equipment list? Give her the fellblades old rule (dis-allowing missile weapons) and give her access to a greater range of weapons.
The "no missile weapons" rules is a very good idea; I'd forgotten that one. Other than that, she had access to the shades list so that she couldn't have a shield of great weapon...

Dark Elves are underpowered at first and over powered later. I would leave the costs as they are to keep that balance, or find away to make them average later.
Another reasons for the costs to remain the same. It's a good thing people have a better memory than I do.

And please add the standard cross-bow to te equipment list. I can't see why a Druchii wouldn't use them, without black powder weapons we have nothing capable of piercing armour from a distance.
Because we have the repeater crossbow. Do you take us for barbaric humans? :P


Szerthall wrote:I have found some inconsistencies.

1) Equipment lists are sometimes called Druchii, sometimes DE. It should be the same.
2) Warhounds. 2 or 3?
Both have been addressed. :)

I agree with Mielkith's note about titles. Highborn is equivalent of Imperial general. Such a small band should be led by equivalent of captain, i.e. noble.
Also already addressed. :)

Why are they limited to 12 and not to 15? Just curious.
Dying race/elite troops concept. Easy 'nough.

Why not to give them access to bow? It is cheap and they certainly know, how to use it. RXB could be cheaper for starting band and more expensive and rare for later purchase (IIRC Skaven have similar rules).
Nah, we're Druchii - the bow's beneath us. RXB price will be changed, then, since so many people are saying it's too expensive.

In Special rules for beastmaster (warhounds) you have two "for". Delete the 4th word from end of paragraph.
Curse MSWord. :P

If the beastlash is limited to beastmaster, it should be also stated in weapon list. However, does it need such limit? I just think, that it would make cute fashion item for sorceress ;-)
Back, vile Slaaneshi whelp! :P
More seriously, the BM is the only one with the skill to use it properly.


Sorry about the double-post, but it made things clearer (for me, at least).
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Post by Loflar »

One more idea. Shouldn't the list also contain list of available hired swords? As a first guess, I assume, that DE warband will be unable to hire elf mage and elf ranger - they would not be interested.
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Post by Jhaelrnya »

(I just checked my file, does it say "2" anywhere? I can't see it. )

Special Rules
Warhounds The Beastmaster may be accompanied by up to two Warhounds. These are bought as henchmen and follow all rules for listed for them.

There's your "two".

My thoughts:
On bows: Now way. Asur use bows, our sworn enemies, the Shadow Warriors use bows, so we use a highly advanced weapon known as an RXB that is far superior.

On blackpowder: I think it has been said a few times that DEs get powerful after a while. Blackpowder is definately an unecessary addition. For Shadow Warriors, it make sense for them to get them-they are a dying breed, more so than any other elves. They hunt us, and use everything at their disposal to do so. They are also a bunch of ignoble punks who will stoop to using dwarf or human-made weapons. We are above that. (Seriously though, common guys. Druchii using blackpowder weapons goes against all current fluff. Dark Elves are stealthy killers, appearing out of the night. It says it right in the intro fluff. They won't use such loud and crude weapons. Give up the blackpowder weapon debate. Shadow warriors get them, dark elves don't. If we do a shadow warriors revision, maybe we can convince GW to take them away, but I personally see absolutely no reason whatsover to give DEs another advantage later in the game. Plus, in Mordhiem, moving and shooting is very valuble.)

I would drop the price of an RxB starting, but leave it the way it is for later on, as it is printed in the Rulebook. You are trying to replace an expensive and highly valuble pioece of equipment shipped from across the world.

Hag Trainee --> Witch Elf Hag
Makes it look like it isn't a student, while keeping it different form a normal witch elf.
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Post by Ansob. »

Jhaelrnya wrote:
(I just checked my file, does it say "2" anywhere? I can't see it. )

Special Rules
Warhounds The Beastmaster may be accompanied by up to two Warhounds. These are bought as henchmen and follow all rules for listed for them.

There's your "two".

My thoughts:
On bows: Now way. Asur use bows, our sworn enemies, the Shadow Warriors use bows, so we use a highly advanced weapon known as an RXB that is far superior.

On blackpowder: I think it has been said a few times that DEs get powerful after a while. Blackpowder is definately an unecessary addition. For Shadow Warriors, it make sense for them to get them-they are a dying breed, more so than any other elves. They hunt us, and use everything at their disposal to do so. They are also a bunch of ignoble punks who will stoop to using dwarf or human-made weapons. We are above that. (Seriously though, common guys. Druchii using blackpowder weapons goes against all current fluff. Dark Elves are stealthy killers, appearing out of the night. It says it right in the intro fluff. They won't use such loud and crude weapons. Give up the blackpowder weapon debate. Shadow warriors get them, dark elves don't. If we do a shadow warriors revision, maybe we can convince GW to take them away, but I personally see absolutely no reason whatsover to give DEs another advantage later in the game. Plus, in Mordhiem, moving and shooting is very valuble.)

I would drop the price of an RxB starting, but leave it the way it is for later on, as it is printed in the Rulebook. You are trying to replace an expensive and highly valuble pioece of equipment shipped from across the world.

Hag Trainee --> Witch Elf Hag
Makes it look like it isn't a student, while keeping it different form a normal witch elf.


Crap about that "two," will change it.
I agree about black powder weapons - that shadow warriors get them is fien with me. That regular Asur in all the unofficial warband attempts get them, I don't. That we don't get them, I still agree (sweet arrogance).
Hags are priestesses, not going to be risked on this type of mission IMO.
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Post by Loflar »

Jhaelrnya wrote:Hag Trainee --> Witch Elf Hag


What about Acolyte? Or Khaine's Acolyte? Dark Acolyte?
(Or Khaine's Fiancee, but it would not be very stylish ;-)
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Post by Mielkith »

I would like to avoid the name Witch Elf, it seems too blatent. The idea of a trainee apeals to me. Its like they are treating Mordheim as a work experience placement.
We don't have to use trainee however, Apprentice?
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Post by Ansob. »

Mielkith wrote:I would like to avoid the name Witch Elf, it seems too blatent. The idea of a trainee apeals to me. Its like they are treating Mordheim as a work experience placement.
We don't have to use trainee however, Apprentice?


Blah, trainee sounds a bit more exotic, and apprentice is used too often for my taste. This is just nitpicking, anyway. :P
Something I didn't have the occasion to comment upon in my previous post due to time constraints; making the RXB cheaper at the start but the same price later on (due to unavailability, since it's an import) is a good idea, if you ask me.
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Post by Arquinsiel »

Trainee sounds like she has to wear a hair net and keeps dropping things into the deep-fryer, not really exotic to my mind. I don't see the problem with being blatant when the beatman list has bestigor and the dwarves have troll slayers.

To be honest though, I think the beastmaster and all things associated with it are unnecessary but I recognise that several other people like them.

I think that maybe Noble and Lordling would be the best combination of names for our heroes.
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Post by Mielkith »

Bestigors and Troll Slayers all have perfectly credible reasons to be there. A witch elfs' reason would always be hazy. Calling a Hero a Witch Elf makes it look like we are not trying and just trying to fit our favorite characters in, instead of trying to make a list customizable to the Covent and the Temple.

Another reason is it is interchangeble with a Sorceress, which is atleast a hero class in warhammer. A witch elf is well known to be a troop type. If we name it something un-familiar we can get away with the class gap.

Noble and Lordling has my full support.
I agree with the Beastmaster comment. Fluff-wise it is not a good choice and its slot can be used by something else. But I really like these chaos hounds.
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Post by Ansob. »

I'll get a grip of Anaryin as soon as I can, and get him to repost in this thread or edit the original post (I'm not up to re-formatting every thing). Alpha v2 will have typoes and such delt with (i.e. the Warhounds issue); implementation of the Noble/Lordling names (thanks Arq :)); trainee equipment list issue delt with; RXB starting price changed (whilst later-on price remains the same).
Anyone have propositions based on sound arguments for the new starting price of the RXB?
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Post by Jhaelrnya »

Ah, I have an even better idea about the Trainee name thingy (I'm not too technical when it gets to be my bedtime).
Dark Acolyte is nice, and fits somtehing I don't thik anyone has thought of: why does it have to be a girl? Couldn't it be an assassin sent out for on the job training? Why just a hag-to-be? Just a thought. Maybe Temple Acolyte, Temple Adept etc.

And on the RxB cost: 25 at start. That would reduce the price to almost 1/3 the original. Gives you 4 for 5gc more than the price of 3 in the old list. Much better in my opinion. Not too overpowered either, as that is still 1/5 your starting gc, and the fact that most people will not buy more than 4 at the begining anyways just gives one more model a ranged weapon. I amy be rambling here. In short, reduce to 25 gc.
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Post by Bloodtemplar »

How about this,

As I was going through the already existing warband lists I noticed that grand majority of them had 3 or 4 hero choices. I think we may be aiming too high with 5. Having 4 henchmen choices is not that uncommon however so I'm throwing the wild suggestion of dropping the Hag Trainee altogether and including Witch Elf as a henchmen choice. We could disallow them in a warband that includes a Sorceress and take that disadvantage back in their point cost. This would also somewhat help in the problem of DE warbands always becoming so expensive.

And yeah, Noble - Lordling combination seems the most reasonable one that most people can understand without further explanation. Highborn's definitely out.
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Post by Mielkith »

I have to say I am against this idea. It would leave you with very limited modeling choices. And again the fluff is not quite as credible.
5 is above average for a hero complment but I often find that 5th exploration die is essecential for keeping up with other warbands advancement. I think it has something to do with other warbands being able to take cheap warriors if they get little money, we do not have such a luxury. Who knows, we may be dropping heros yet.
A good point about your idea is it does get across that the Temple has signifacantly more "man" power to it. It will also fill the gap in henchmen if we lost another hero.

I am in agreement with Jhaelrnya about the Repeater Crossbows. Aslong as it is only this price for a starting warband.
It is testimony to the genius of our race Reaper Bolt throwers, I know. But the same applies) and thus should be common and cheaper when bought in Naggaroth. However once over in the Mordheim such things will be much harder to come by.
Last edited by Mielkith on Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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