Compilation of my thoughts on the warband

Discuss and participate in the development of the Mordheim Druchii warband here.

Moderators: Loflar, The Dread Knights

Post Reply
Jymset
Trainee Warrior
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:35 pm

Compilation of my thoughts on the warband

Post by Jymset »

I discussed the warband that is being created here a lot over the weekend (my bro, the best person to talk about all things Warhammer to, was over). Now, in terms of attractiveness and balance, the list has the problem of too many heros and not enough henchmen. Basic question: would it be too much of a hassle to everyone involved to make the Witch Elf a henchman?

My idea: 0-3 Witch Elf
5 4 3 3 3 1 5(6) 1 8
May NOT use armour. May have Darksteel Weapon (and maybe poison?).
Frenzy
May not be chosen if a sorceress is in the warband

WHY would we do that?

Well, bear with me. Sure, a majority of Witch Elves hail from Ghrond. But unlike Executioners and Black Guard, they are the only elite infantry unit that is not totally bound to a single city. All cities have their Temples of Khain and their share of Witch Elves.

They would be slightly more common (if less than obviously Corsairs and Shades, hence the 0-3)

It means that we would only have to introduce 5 different characters (Captain, Lordling, Sorceress, Bloodshade, Beastmaster) and would have some more Henchmen (Corsair, Shade, Witch Elf, Chaos Hound [?]) to play with.

Downside is that the neat little rule with the sacrifice would be gone....

Any good?
Jymset
Trainee Warrior
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:35 pm

Post by Jymset »

Please don't think I'm spamming - I just want to structure this thread to give each message a central idea.

EQUIPMENT LIST!

What else to put in it? How many lists? I personally think that a Corsair list and a separate Shade list should suffice.

The Sorceress cannot choose armour, the Witch Elves cannot choose armour and/or missile weapons.

Here are a few items that I would like to put forward for discussion:

1) A controversial idea that I had put forward in the Alpha2 thread was: what about including a STANDARD crossbow in the Corsair list?

Why? Well, back in 3rd edition, Dark Elves definitely had access to them as an alternative to Repeaters. And, despite being more crude than the elegant Druchii weapon, I can definitely see a Captain or a Beastmaster being pragmatical enough to include this unwieldy, but definitely more powerful weapons as a safeguard against big enemies.

Why only in the Corsair list? Well, I kinda answered that above. Being pragmatical is one thing, but a Shade would make a living from being stealthy, and as such only a wonderfully repeater crossbow would do. (In game terms, if we start off with a totally shooty character and then included a S4 weapon, well, it wouldn't be nice on the others - I can't think of any other army who starts off with anyone having BS5, S4, range 30". Also, the consensus so far was that the Shade be a quick-moving character, not suited for the standard Xbow).


2) Another thing, this time for the Shade list. What about another "new" equipment - "Hunting BOLTS" - to be used in Repeater Xbows? Would bring it in line with the Averlander thing....


3) The Beastlash for the Beastmaster has been bugging me. I would change that slightly. It should still work like the Sigmarite whip, but additionally:

A) it should not cause fear in animals - I am working on the assumption that the Strength skill table will be used for the Beastmaster - well, he can choose to cause fear, full stop. So, it is redundant.

B) One thing that we are all working on is that we have to use rules to reflect existing models, right? Thus my suggestion - give it the rule that it can be used in conjunction with a spear. I know, I know, not the most elegant thing (seeing as they do very similar things), but that is the model.


4) My brother asked me if there were plans to include a "Draich"? How could that be reflected in the rules? Maybe a great weapon that can parry?
User avatar
Loflar
Warband Noble
Warband Noble
Posts: 613
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:06 am
Location: Praag

Re: Compilation of my thoughts on the warband

Post by Loflar »

jymset wrote:the list has the problem of too many heros and not enough henchmen.

I agree with the henchmen problem and partially agree with the hero problem. Yes, six different hero choices is a lot (i.e. more than fingers on hand ;-). Speaking for myself, it is no problem. I like complex things (but not too complex). But it could be a problem from general playability point of view. I don't know.

jymset wrote:Basic question: would it be too much of a hassle to everyone involved to make the Witch Elf a henchman?

Not for me. But I am not very fond of frenzied maniacs and would probably not take her anyway ;-)

jymset wrote:My idea: 0-3 Witch Elf
May not be chosen if a sorceress is in the warband

I she was not a hero, I would not restrict her presence by sorceress. You can have sorceress and WE in army as well.

jymset wrote:Downside is that the neat little rule with the sacrifice would be gone....

Which would not be such a tragedy, IMHO. The rule is nice, but not essential.
Jymset
Trainee Warrior
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:35 pm

Re: Compilation of my thoughts on the warband

Post by Jymset »

Loflar wrote:
jymset wrote:I she was not a hero, I would not restrict her presence by sorceress. You can have sorceress and WE in army as well.


We totally see eye to eye on that one. The whole "Sorceress totally against Witch Elves" (ie Khaine against magic) thing has only really cropped up in 6th edition (previously to that, in 4th-5th edition, if you remember, it was always clear that YES, Khain was affiliated with Khorne - see the Witch Elf caps with the Khorne symbol. But it was always also clear that Khaine and sorcery were just two aspects of the life of the Druchii and that the superior Dark Elves had no problem whatsoever combining both). Sorry, I'm babbling.....

Which would not be such a tragedy, IMHO. The rule is nice, but not essential.


Exactly. We could live without it.

One thing that we have to avoid at all costs, Loflar, is having too many special rules. Actually, even more importantly, we have to avoid making the special rules that we do have too complicated!
User avatar
Mielkith
Assassin
Posts: 576
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:46 pm
Location: Coriana 6, where we won the shadow war
Contact:

Post by Mielkith »

I'm going to have to cast my vote as no on all counts.
Witch Elves were a possibility but for fluff reasons I don't think we can use it. There is no strong reason for them to be there. The only reason I can think of is to protect the Hag but the Hag has a fairly weak reason to be there in the first place.

You are right in that we need another (just one) henchmen, but I don't think the Witch Elf is the way.

The standard crossbow is something I strive to get for my Corsairs in the current warband. I much perfer it to the RXBow but it is just not keeping in the theme of our warband. Too primitive to be allowed.

It means that we would only have to introduce 5 different characters


We are not going to have more then 5 henchmen anyway, as far as I know.

The Draich can be simple enough. Replace the terms in the weapon list, two handed sword for Draich, add a * and a foot note, sorted.

Hunting bolts: we can say the RXBow is compatible with huniting arrows, but I would not want to see them on the equipment list.

The beastmaster: I am still against any Elf having strength skills.

Sorry for this, you seem to of put some fair amount of thought into this and my response is less then encouraging. Kepp working on it, you may sway me yet.
Jymset
Trainee Warrior
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:35 pm

Post by Jymset »

Mielkith wrote:The only reason I can think of is to protect the Hag but the Hag has a fairly weak reason to be there in the first place.

You are right in that we need another (just one) henchmen, but I don't think the Witch Elf is the way.


True, I agree. If it was up to me, we could do without the Witches. If I personally had to choose one, I would prefer the Witches to be Henchmen, though.

The standard crossbow is something I strive to get for my Corsairs in the current warband. I much perfer it to the RXBow but it is just not keeping in the theme of our warband. Too primitive to be allowed.


Ah, but.... Originally they were part of the Dark Elf armoury. They really aren't all that primitive either. More crude, yes, less intricate, but not exactly primitive (I'd give the bow that award....). I still have a bunch of old models (made in the late 80s) with standard Xbows (and some other ones with Repeaters standing next to them).

The Draich can be simple enough. Replace the terms in the weapon list, two handed sword for Draich, add a * and a foot note, sorted.


No, I was just asking whether it could be a new weapon. Well, if not, then it doesn't matter. There shouldn't be an extra foot note for what is, essentially, a modelling choice.

Hunting bolts: we can say the RXBow is compatible with huniting arrows, but I would not want to see them on the equipment list.


Ah, but that doesn't work - the RXBow is already part of the Mordheim Rulebook. We CANNOT change anything that is already official. So, either Hunting Bolts, or no option.

The beastmaster: I am still against any Elf having strength skills.


Well, but what I described makes sense, right? And, most importantly, it does give us the option of creating an effective Executioner (still arguably some of the nicest models) - remember that great weapons in Mordheim are not as good as their equivalent in Warhammer (strike last on the charge, too).

Thanks very much for your input. As you can see, I can reply to it, making it an even discussion! ;)
Post Reply