Alpha 3 - or so it looks...

[Ansob.]

Okay, this is our temporary Alpha 3. Of course, the Heroes aren’t ready yet, so they’re not in, but everything else mentioned in the six pages of the Alpha² thread has been included. Which is precious little, which has me surprised. Let's not stop using the Hero threads for now. Any comment is welcome, especially on the few tweaks I took the liberty of making.
Since no one seems to have any price issues for the moment, those are intact. Fey Quickness is back in.
And really, beats me why I didn’t do this one earlier. I just realised that most of the posts in the Alpha² thread was talk about the Heroes.
Future changes: once we get the BM and BS discussed thoroughly (including the new rule I added, because we were getting too many Heroes – check it out), we need to grapple with:
- the cost of our items;
- the DE assassin Hired Sword and all the other “side content” featured in Lustria (i.e. cold ones, etc. – most of them just need a rarity change to reflect the change of place).
One last thing – I think we’re focusing a bit too much on the heroes. Not complaining or anything, just thinking of what the people who’re going to publish this will say. It might be wise to revert to the original choice of Heroes once we’ve sorted the ones we’re on out (i.e. drop the Hag and Bloodshade). A 0-3, bought in groups of one, witch elves entry as henchmen without the sacrifice rule (or with it? It could stay, technically – change it to “as long as the warband includes one witch elf…”) could be nice (Frenzy means they don’t suffer from All On Your Own until they lose it), and would solve the “too many heroes, not enough henchmen” issue. Everything else should be as the Hero entry (except for the price, evidently – unfortunately, we don’t have much of a manoeuvring margin).
As far as Strength skills are concerned, I wouldn’t include them for now, except maybe for the Bloodshade (tribal warrior, remember?). Not at all would be better. As such, no move has been made towards them at the moment. And for those partisans of the “executioners are l33t!” argument – well, I agree, but it doesn’t mean we can make a mutant monstrosity elf.
(Well, okay, there is the fact that we’re called the People of the Northern Reaches and that our living conditions are much harsher than those of the Ulthuani, but…)

Mordheim : Druchii warband
Alpha 3



There are none living who know the ways of the elves, save perhaps the mighty lizard-priests of the South whose knowledge and power is rumoured to grow far beyond that even of the High Mages of the College of Magic of Altdorf. Those few elves who roam the lands of the Empire are mysterious, their ways impenetrable to us.

There are those who, like Finubar the Proud, openly declare themselves Manfriend and help defend our glorious Empire from the encroaching forces of Chaos - too few of them, unfortunately. Of those, we know what they would have us know - their history and that of their families, and a little of the history of their land - the fabled island of Ulthuan. There are those who stalk the night, warriors who come cloaked in darkness and wielding bows, the death in their eyes revealed in their prey as their life is snuffed out like a candle atop Brass Keep by one, well-placed arrow shot - of those we know little, save that they name themselves "Shadow warriors of Nagarythe" and, as their kindred of Ulthuan reassure us, they seek to do us no harm.

There are those who protect the forests, defending them from touch of Chaos and Man alike. There are also rumours of a fourth breed of elves - a grim race, ruthless and sadistic. They come at night in their low ships with sails of midnight-black, craving the poison that lurks within the now-ruins of Mordheim, the Weyrdstone of which all those who go to the Cursed City and return speak. They leave no witnesses, taking prisoner those who are able-bodied enough to toil under them in slavery, murdering the others.

Of course, such nonsense is only that - rumours, and nonsense, the delusional affabulations of crazed minds that have seen the taint of Chaos from too close. It may be that some elves are more ruthless than others, but they are just that - elves, and their ways are closed to us.


Choice of Warriors
A Druchii warband must include a minimum of three models. You have 500 gold crowns to recruit your initial warband. The maximum number of warriors in a warband may never exceed 12.

• Heroes
  Noble Each Druchii warband must have one Noble to lead it - no more, no less.
  Lordlings Your warband may include up to two Lordlings.
  Beastmaster Your warband may include one Beastmaster.
  Bloodshade Your warband may include one Bloodshade.
  Sorceress Your warband may include one Sorceress.
  Hag Trainee Your warband may include one hag Trainee.
  Note: if you warband includes a Hag Trainee, it cannot include a Sorceress (and vice versa). Also, if your warband includes a Bloodshade, it cannot include a Beastmaster (and vice versa).
  
• Henchmen
  Corsairs Your warband may include any number of corsairs.
  Shades Your warband may include up to five shades.
  Warhounds Your warband may include up to three hounds if it also includes a Beastmaster.

Starting Experience

A Noble starts with 20 experience.
Lordlings start with 12 experience.
A Sorceress starts with 12 experience.
A Hag Trainee starts with 12 experience.
A Bloodshade starts with 8 experience.
A Beastmaster starts with 8 experience.
Henchmen start with 0 experience.

Maximum Characteristics

Characteristics for Druchii warriors may not be increased beyond the maximum limits shown here:

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M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5  7  7 4 4 3 9 5  10

Special Rules

Kindred Hatred The Dark Elves have been fighting the High Elves for many centuries. The wars between these two races have been very long and bloody affairs. Dark Elves Hate any High Elf warriors including High Elf Hired Swords.

Excellent Sight There are numerous legends detailing the excellent eyesight of the Elves, both Druchii and Asur kin. Elves can spot Hidden enemies from twice as far away than normal warriors (i.e. twice their Initiative value in inches).

Disdain Dark Elves may never use black powder weapons as they find them too crude, noisy and unreliable.

Long-Lived Elves, as a race, can live right through dozens of human generations, with a lifespan crossing centuries, rather than decades. Due to this, they take longer to advance through the ranks, as they do not have the short human lifespan to push them to great deeds before they die. As such, the first time any Dark Elf henchman rolls "The Lad's Got Talent", you must re-roll the dice. The second roll stands (even if you roll "The Lad's Got Talent" again). This represents the fact that elves must do much more than a member of the "lesser" races to gain the respect of their commander and comrades. Any further results of "The Lad's Got Talent" count as normal; only the first result rolled for each henchmen group must be re-rolled.

Druchii equipment lists
The following lists are used by Druchii warbands to pick their weapons:

Druchii equipment list
Hand-to-hand Combat Weapons
Dagger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1st free/2 gc
Axe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Sword . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Double-handed weapon . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Halberd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Spear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Beastlash* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc

Missile Weapons
Repeater Crossbow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 gc
Crossbow Pistol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 gc
Bow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc

Armour
Helmet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Light armour . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 gc
Shield . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc
Buckler . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 gc

Special Equipment
Darksteel Blade** . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .+ 15 gc
Dark Venom** . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 gc
Sea Dragon Cloak** . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 gc
* Beastmaster only.
** Heroes only, unless otherwise mentioned.

Shades equipment list
Hand-to-hand Combat Weapons
Dagger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1st free/2 gc
Axe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5 gc
Sword . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc

Missile Weapons
Repeater Crossbow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 gc
Bow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc

Armour
Helmet . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 gc
Light armour . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 gc

Druchii skill table

Noble Combat - Shooting - Academic - Speed - Special
Lordling Combat - Shooting - Speed - Special
Sorceress Academic - Speed - Special
Hag Trainee Combat - Speed - Special
Beastmaster Combat - Speed - Special
Bloodshade Shooting - Speed - Special

Heroes

1 Noble
70 Gold Crowns to hire
Dark Elf leaders are typically drawn from the Dark Elf nobility and lead the warband in search of gold, slaves and arcane artifacts to bring home to Naggaroth. They are cold and ruthless killers and they command the respect of their troops through assassination and terror. They have attained their position of leadership by eliminating those rivals who stood in their way and through their remarkable cunning, they are dangerous foes who embody the merciless traits of the Druchii race.

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M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5  5  4 3 3 1 6 1  9

Weapons/Armour A Noble may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Dark Elf Equipment list.

Special Rules
Leader Any models in the warband within 6" of the Noble may use his Leadership instead of their own.

0-2 Lordlings
50 Gold Crowns to hire
Lordlings are would-be commanders of the Druchii forces, and often serve under a Noble as page or lieutenant. Lordlings accompany raiding parties to the Old World to further their career, seeking to acquire fame, riches and status in the Witch King’s court.

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M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5  4  4 3 3 1 6 1  8

Weapons/Armour Lordlings may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Druchii equipment list.

0-1 Dark Elf Sorceress
60 Gold Crowns to hire
Dark Elves are strange in that apart from the fell Witch King there are no other male sorcerers - all the other practitioners of magic in the Dark Elf race are female. It is rumoured that any males who do develop an affinity for magic amongst the Dark Elves are immediately put to death to prevent the fulfilling of some dark prophecy.
Dark Elf Sorceresses are mysterious, raven-haired beauties who are grudgingly respected even by the powerful Nobles, and their services are high in demand.

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M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5  3  3 3 3 1 5 1  8

Weapons/Armour The Sorceress may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Druchii equipment list, but may not cast spells if wearing armour.

Special Rules
Wizard The Dark Elf Sorceress is a wizard and uses Dark Magic, detailed below.

Sectarism Because of the intense mistrust between the Temple of Khaine and the Convents, Sorceresses and Hag Trainees do not tolerate each other’s presence; if your warband includes a Sorceress, it cannot include a Hag Trainee.

0-1 Hag Trainee
45 Gold Crowns to hire
Witch Elves are the lethally beautiful followers of Khaine, the Bloody-Handed god of murder, vengeance and war. Hag Trainees are those amongst the devoted who seek to become priestesses of Khaine and learn His holy canons. These warrior-priestesses are sent on missions for the Temple, to prove their worth in the eyes of their god.

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M WS BS S T W I A Ld
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Weapons/Armour The Hag Trainee may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Druchii equipment list, barring all missile weapons.

Special Rules
Fervour The Hag Trainee follows the Frenzy special rule.

Offering If the Warband includes a Hag Trainee, it may choose to sacrifice any slaves it captures to Khaine rather than selling them in Naggaroth. Each sacrificed slave will give the leader +1XP.

Sectarism Because of the intense mistrust between the Temple of Khaine and the Convents, Sorceresses and Hag Trainees do not tolerate each other’s presence; if your warband includes a Hag Trainee, it cannot include a Sorceress.

0-1 Beastmaster
(NB: scrapped save the animal rule for now. I’m leaning in favour of taking the Chaos hounds from the HoC AB ad hoc, which is what I’d done before, so they’re still in until we change.)

Special Rules
Warhounds The Beastmaster may be accompanied by up to three Warhounds. These are bought as henchmen and follow all rules for listed for them.

Rivalry Alongside being the expedition’s first scout, a Bloodshade is also an excellent tracker, a function which is often performed by a Beastmaster and his hounds. Unfortunately, because of the nature of Druchii society, only one of those individuals can perform the function at once. For that reason, a warband containing a Beastmaster cannot contain a Bloodshade.

0-1 Bloodshade
To become a Shade scout as most of the Druchii society know them, shade-clan hunters must first take part in a ritualistic trial of strength, might and courage when they come of age. Those younglings who do particularly well during their trial – for example, hunting and slaying one of the great bears that roam the northern stretches of Naggaroth bare-handed in less than two days – are marked by the clan elders and become Bloodshades.
On expeditions headed for the Old World, Bloodshades often fill the role of first scout, taking command of their newly-tested brethren in service of those adventurous Nobles who go seek riches by raiding the coasts of Men and lending their superior scouting talents to their employers.

Special Rules
Rivalry Alongside being the expedition’s first scout, a Bloodshade is also an excellent tracker, a function which is often performed by a Beastmaster and his hounds. Unfortunately, because of the nature of Druchii society, only one of those individuals can perform the function at once. For that reason, a warband containing a Bloodshade cannot contain a Beastmaster.

Henchmen
Bought in groups of 1-5.

Corsairs
35 Gold Crowns to hire
The Dark Elves are cruel and fierce fighters. This is especially true of the Corsairs - the Black Ark Raiders. They are skilled with sword and axe, as well as the repeater crossbow, the distinct missile weapon of the Dark Elves. Whenever Druchii ships reach foreign shores, the Corsairs are the first to launch raiding parties.

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Weapons/Armour Corsairs may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Dark Elf Equipment list. In addition they may wear Sea Dragon Cloaks even though they are not Heroes.

0-5 Shades
35 Gold Crowns to hire
The stealthy Dark Elf Shades rely on their repeater crossbows to harass and snipe at the enemy, rather than engaging them head on, as ambush is their preferred style of fighting. These Shades are young and inexperienced scouts that see the expeditions to the Old World as a valuable training opportunity.

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Weapons/Armour Shades may be armed with weapons and armour chosen from the Shades Equipment list.

Natural Stealth The first thing that Dark Elf scouts master is the art of moving without being seen or heard. If a Shade is Hiding, enemy models suffer -1 to their Initiative value for determining if they can detect him.

0-3 Warhounds
20 Gold Crowns to hire
The Dark Elves capture and breed many exotic creatures to fight for them, and fights between pets are often staged as a form of entertainment amongst the Dark Elves. Myriad of such animals can be discovered in the Chaos Wastes. Among them is the Warhound, a fierce breed of attack hounds that resemble wolves more than dogs. The Dark Elves capture and train these creatures to fight in battles all over the Warhammer World.

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7  4  0 4 3 1 4 1  5

Weapons/Armour Warhounds are animals and do not need any weapons, save their claws and massive jaws.

Special Rules
Animals Warhounds are animals, and all animal rules apply to them. They never gain experience.

Beastmaster Warhounds are vicious creatures that are barely kept under control. If the Beastmaster dies the beasts will immediately escape from the warband - remove them from the warband roster. If the Beastmaster is unable to participate in a battle, then neither will the beasts.

Trained Warhounds may use the basic Leadership of the Beastmaster if they are within 6" of him. They may never use the Leadership of the warband leader, but they may benefit from the Beastmaster’s increased Leadership if he is within 6" of the leader. Since Warhounds are still wild creatures and their fighting spirit is what makes them so precious, Warhounds too far away from their masters will often refuse to obey orders. As such, Warhounds out of the Beastmaster’s control radius suffer from the Stupidity special rule.

Ferocious Charge On the turn of a charge, a Warhound will automatically knock its foe down on a To Hit roll of a "6." In this case, the Hound may not attack this close combat phase.


Special Equipment

Darksteel Weapon
(+15 gold crowns to weapon/Rare 9)
Darksteel weapons are forged in the city of Hag Graef, the Dark Crag. They are fashioned from Blacksteel, a rare form of steel found deep within the mountains around the city. Darksteel weapons have wicked protrusions and serrated edges, which inflict serious damage on an opponent. Any Druchii can upgrade a weapon to a Darksteel weapon by paying an additional 15 gc at the time of purchase. Weapons upgraded to a Darksteel Weapon retain all of their abilities (i.e. swords can parry, double-handed weapons strike last).

Range Close Combat; Strength As user; Special Rules Critical Damage, Wicked Edge.

Special Rules
Critical Damage Darksteel weapons inflict serious damage on their opponents. When rolling on the critical hit chart, a Darksteel weapon will add +1 to the result.

Wicked Edge Darksteel weapons are set with sharp protrusions and serrated edges which inflict serious damage on an opponent. A roll of 2-4 on the injury table is a stunned result.

Beastlash (Beastmaster only)
(10+D6 Gold Crowns/Rare 8 )
The Beastmaster make good use of their whips to goad their hounds and creatures into combat.

Range Close combat; Strength As user -1; Special Rules Beastbane; Whipcrack; Cannot be parried.

Special Rules
Beastbane The Beastmaster wielding a Beastlash causes Fear in animals. Any animal charged by or wishing to charge a Beastmaster with one of these weapons must first take a fear test as mentioned in the psychology section of the Mordheim rules.

Whipcrack A Beastmaster armed with a Beastlash may attack enemies up to 4" away in the hand-to-hand combat phase. He may make his usual number of attacks using the normal combat procedure, except that the targeted opponent may not strike back. Note that if the Beastmaster is already engaged in close combat, he may not use the Beastlash to attack opponents other than those in base contact.

Cannot be parried A Beastlash cannot be parried.

Sea Dragon Cloak
(35+2D6 Gold Crowns/Rare 10)
Dark Elf Corsairs use special cloaks fashioned from the skin and scales of the sea monsters that dwell deep in the oceans depths. These cloaks are tough and resilient, and offer Dark Elves a very good amount of protection.

Special Rules
Scales 6+ armour save in close combat, 5+ armour save against missiles; may be combined with other pieces of armour (light armour, shield, etc.) with no penalties. Does not count as armour (spellcaster may wear and still cast).


Druchii Skill Table
Dark Elf Heroes may use the following Skill table instead of any of the standard skill tables available to them:
Does someone know what happened to the new skill that Arq had started everyone on? I think we need a fifth special skill, personally…
Edit: something interesting – I stumbled upon the talk of the BM being able to control other animals that he puts OoA. What happens if we make this another skill?

Fury of Khaine
The Dark Elf is infused with an intense raging thirst for blood and is a whirlwind in hand-to-hand combat, moving from opponent to opponent. The Druchii may make a 4" follow up move if he takes all of his opponents out of action. If he comes into contact with another enemy, this starts a new combat. This
new combat takes place in the following turn and the model counts as charging.

Fey Quickness
Few can ever hope to match an Elf ’s inhuman quickness and agility. An Elf with Fey Quickness can avoid melee or missile attacks on a roll of 6. If the Elf also has Step Aside or Dodge this will increase to a 4+ in the relevant area. For example, an Elf with Fey Quickness and Step Aside avoids melee attacks on a 4+ and missile attacks on a 6.

Infiltration
The Dark Elf can infiltrate. This skill is exactly the same as the Skaven skill.

Master of Poisons
The Druchii is proficient in concocting different poisons. If the Hero doesn’t search for rare items, he may make D3-1 doses of Dark Venom instead. There is a chance of getting none, as the hero doesn’t have access to a stable workplace. The poison cannot be sold or traded to other warbands as the Dark Elves guard their secrets very carefully.


Dark Magic
Like their hated Asur kin, the Dark Elves are accomplished practitioners of magic. However, whereas the High Elves essentially use magic defensively and for the power of good, the Dark Elves utilise the evil powers of Dark Magic - a very destructive force indeed.

D6 Result
1 Doombolt
Difficulty 8
Whispering an ancient incantation, the Sorceress conjures a bolt of pure dark energy and unleashes it from her outstretched hand.
The Doombolt may be targeted at any enemy model in line of sight. The bolt has an 18" range and causes a Strength 5 hit. If the target model is wounded, then the next closest model within 6" is also hit on a 4+, at -1 Strength than the previous hit. The bolt will keep leaping until there are no more targets within range or until its Strength drops to a one. Take armour saves as normal.

2 Word of Pain
Difficulty 8
The Sorceress calls down the wrath of Khaine upon her enemy, causing his resolve to disappear.
The spell may be cast at an enemy model within 12". The victim must re-roll all successful hand to hand or missile attacks and all to wound rolls. If the victim wishes to charge, he must pass a successful Leadership test first. Lasts until the beginning of the next Dark Elf turn.

3 Soul Stealer
Difficulty 9
At the Sorceress’s touch, the essence of life is drained from her enemy and absorbed into her body, giving her renewed strength and vigour.
Once successfully cast, the Sorceress has to make a to hit roll against a model in base contact. If the attack is successful and her opponent is struck, he suffers a wound with no armour save possible. The Sorceress feeds on this life-force and adds one wound to her current total.
Note: the Sorceress can never have more then one extra wound on her profile from the use of this spell(she may cast it as many times as she wishes to regain lost wounds) and the extra wound is lost once the battle is over.

4 Black Blade of Khaine
Difficulty 8
Summoning Dark Magic, the Sorceress engulfs a weapon in twisted black flames.
The Sorceress may choose the hand-to-hand combat weapon of a member of her warband within 6" to be engulfed in flames. A weapon with these flames acts as a normal weapon of its type, but adds a +2 bonus to the user’s Strength. Hits inflicted from the weapon ignore armour saves. Lasts until the Sorceress’ next shooting
phase.

5 Deathspasm
Difficulty 9
The Sorceress channels Dark Magic into her enemy, causing him to writhe in excruciating pain.
The Deathspasm has a range of 6" and must be cast on the closest enemy model. The affected model must roll on the injury chart. If successfully cast, the casting Sorceress is immediately knocked down. This cannot be prevented by using the Jump Up skill.

6 Witch Flight
Difficulty 7
The Sorceress bends the winds of magic to her will and flies through the air.
The Sorceress may immediately move anywhere within 12", and may count as charging. If she engages a fleeing enemy in the close combat phase, she will score 1 automatic hit and then the opponent will flee again.

[Loflar]

One last thing – I think we’re focusing a bit too much on the heroes. Not complaining or anything, just thinking of what the people who’re going to publish this will say.

In fact, we might have enough heroes for two warbands... What about to split it to "standard" warband based on Lustria and "shade" one? ;-)

Also, if your warband includes a Bloodshade, it cannot include a Beastmaster (and vice versa).

I was wondering how you will justify that, but I think that you did it quite well with the Rivality.

To become a Shade scout as most of the Druchii society know them, shade-clan hunters must first take part in a ritualistic trial of strength, might and courage when they come of age. Those younglings who do particularly well during their trial – for example, hunting and slaying one of the great bears that roam the northern stretches of Naggaroth bare-handed in less than two days – are marked by the clan elders and become Bloodshades.
On expeditions headed for the Old World, Bloodshades often fill the role of first scout, taking command of their newly-tested brethren in service of those adventurous Nobles who go seek riches by raiding the coasts of Men and lending their superior scouting talents to their employers.

I like that. It even explains their funny name. I am just sorry for the poor bare-handed bears, though ;-)

0-3 Warhounds
...
hounds that resemble wolves more than dogs. The Dark Elves capture and train these creatures to fight in battles all over the Warhammer World.

Then why are they not part of army? I suggest to change "to fight in battles" to "to accompany them" or "to help them hunt slaves".

increased Leadership if he is within 6" of the leader. Since Warhounds are still wild creatures and their fighting spirit is what makes them so precious, Warhounds too far away from their masters will often refuse to obey orders. As such, Warhounds out of the Beastmaster’s control radius suffer from the Stupidity special rule.

For my comments on this one, see the Beastmaster thread.

[Jymset]

Well, I have now commented on your other two threads, so I can't do much more here for the time being than saying: Great job!

A couple of small points: Obviously the Beastmaster is very much work-in-process. I've spent most of my time on him, but he will be discussed elsewhere.

The Beastlash. I know, we are yet to talk about the equipment list. It will be a thing for a later stage. But, before anything, please change the rule to bring it in line with existing ones. The official rule for the whip's reach has been replaced by Whiplash! Check this, bottom of page 4: http://www.specialist-games.com/mordhei ... MHRRv7.pdf

Thanks for all your fine work!

[Jymset]

Just another couple of points on our Skill Tables:

i) You have to fix up Fey Quickness - obviously the saving throws will combine into a 4+ save.

ii) Master of Poisons is a joke. Yes, I know, it is an old rule, but it ain't worth it. No way is it a viable alternative to all the other yummy skills out there. On average, one weapon will be coated - meaning that one character in the warband effectively gains +1 S - the same as mighty blow. However, the mighty blow character won't have to miss a post-battle sequence to find wyrdstone. For that potential extra Wyrdstone, the money for a standard dose could be acquired. Honestly, this won't do. I talked to my bro about this (he was the one to point this out) and we thought it *may* be viable if it is just D3 (without the -1) doses. At least that means 2 doses on average. It also makes the rule shorter!

iii) Can someone playtest the rule with the Beastmaster? What if he takes an animal OOA after stunning/knocking it down? Would the Animal get up straight away (ie - OOA representing the BM breaking and shooing the thing up)? What happens to it after the battle? Is it OOA? Or is it captured - which opens the question of what we do with it? Include it in our roster? Sell it half-price?

iv) What about including some rule based off the work-in-process (but thankfully discarded) rule for the Corsairs - the diving charge or something?

[Ansob.]

The Beastlash. I know, we are yet to talk about the equipment list. It will be a thing for a later stage. But, before anything, please change the rule to bring it in line with existing ones. The official rule for the whip's reach has been replaced by Whiplash! Check this, bottom of page 4: http://www.specialist-games.com/mordhei ... MHRRv7.pdf

It's been reported a couple of times before and I never got around to doign it. Changed.

Just another couple of points on our Skill Tables:

i) You have to fix up Fey Quickness - obviously the saving throws will combine into a 4+ save.

Eh? Did I leave it as 5+? It's meant to be 4+. Changed.

ii) Master of Poisons is a joke. Yes, I know, it is an old rule, but it ain't worth it. No way is it a viable alternative to all the other yummy skills out there. On average, one weapon will be coated - meaning that one character in the warband effectively gains +1 S - the same as mighty blow. However, the mighty blow character won't have to miss a post-battle sequence to find wyrdstone. For that potential extra Wyrdstone, the money for a standard dose could be acquired. Honestly, this won't do. I talked to my bro about this (he was the one to point this out) and we thought it *may* be viable if it is just D3 (without the -1) doses. At least that means 2 doses on average. It also makes the rule shorter!

Refresh my memory, but isn't MB a Strength skill?
d3 doses makes sense - it being as opposed to d6 (explains the no workspace thing). Discussion needed, but I'm leaning towards the change.

iii) Can someone playtest the rule with the Beastmaster? What if he takes an animal OOA after stunning/knocking it down? Would the Animal get up straight away (ie - OOA representing the BM breaking and shooing the thing up)? What happens to it after the battle? Is it OOA? Or is it captured - which opens the question of what we do with it? Include it in our roster? Sell it half-price?

The OOA = stolen rule? Is it in the Alpha? I don't even know what I wrote, sometimes.
If so, it shouldn't be in. It needs discussion in the BM thread first, not here.

iv) What about including some rule based off the work-in-process (but thankfully discarded) rule for the Corsairs - the diving charge or something?

I'm for it, but I need everyone else's agreement and a precise wording for the rule. Seemed it had a pretty good base, though, and it makes corsairs cooler and more fluffy.

[Jymset]

Refresh my memory, but isn't MB a Strength skill?

Yes, but that wasn't my point. My point was that D3-1 is simply woeful. You are paying a skill and the fact that you will have to choose to miss an always important exploration fact for an unreliable bonus that is generally, if all goes well, just on par with another rule found in another list.

The OOA = stolen rule? Is it in the Alpha? I don't even know what I wrote, sometimes.
If so, it shouldn't be in. It needs discussion in the BM thread first, not here.

Ok, sure. I was just thinking that discussion of the Special Skill Table for the Dark Elves was to be here.

I'm for it, but I need everyone else's agreement and a precise wording for the rule. Seemed it had a pretty good base, though, and it makes corsairs cooler and more fluffy.

Well, I am NOT for it, in terms of being a standard rule for Henchmen. I was more asking whether it had the potential to be included in the skills table (maybe with some sort of other bonus)? After all, you were asking for more skills to include on our table.

What about the "Sniper" skill from the (now unofficial) Shadow Warrior Table? Or the "Seeker" ability from the Elven Scout (0-1 per Warband only)?


P.S. - May I already give a bit of input to the equipment lists? Just on what is up already.

I have noticed that you have chosen to include bows. I actually quite like that. Sure, it is a primitive weapon, but not so much a crude one. It is basically a case of a Druchii picking up natural resources to give his natural combat skills some reach. Thumbs up! I would still champion the cause of adding a standard XBow to the Druchii list only, though (simply too unwieldly for stealthy scouts!).

I don't know about the Helmet choice for Shades, seems very out of character....

The Special Equipment List - Well, if you follow the precedents set in all the other warbands, you should split that up into the other sections: Beastlash and Darksteel Blade in Weapons, SDC in armour. The SDC does not need the asterisks, telling us that it is available to everyone who has access to that list is redundant. In fact, by not including it in armour, we would be implying that the Sorceress can wear it. Surely not?!

Is it necessary to state that Corsairs may not equip the Darksteel blade? It is a big investment. And look at the Corsair models - really, they should at least have theoretical access to this weapon.

The result would be that all we'd have to mark would be the Beastlash - to be used only by the Beastmaster.

Also - please state "Dark Elves Only" in the description of these items - do we really want to gift every warband with access to these?

Last point for now - seeing as the Shadow Warrior warband is now unofficial - I totally think we should reintroduce the "Familiar"! That was the only item which was available to all warbands! In a once-official warband (that was only retired because of fluff reasons). I think it is our duty to reintroduce it to Mordheim. And yes, I really, really want to dust off my KoS familiar!

[Angel of algebra]

Darksteel Weapon
(+15 gold crowns to weapon/Rare 9)
Darksteel weapons are forged in the city of Hag Graef, the Dark Crag. They are fashioned from Blacksteel, a rare form of steel found deep within the mountains around the city. Darksteel weapons have wicked protrusions and serrated edges, which inflict serious damage on an opponent. Any Druchii can upgrade a weapon to a Darksteel weapon by paying an additional 20 gc at the time of purchase. Weapons upgraded to a Darksteel Weapon retain all of their abilities (i.e. swords can parry, double-handed weapons strike last).

you say that it is +15GC, then near the end of that paragraph, you say they have to add 20, which is it?
just putting in my annoying nit-picking comment

[Ansob.]

The Special Equipment List - Well, if you follow the precedents set in all the other warbands, you should split that up into the other sections: Beastlash and Darksteel Blade in Weapons, SDC in armour. The SDC does not need the asterisks, telling us that it is available to everyone who has access to that list is redundant. In fact, by not including it in armour, we would be implying that the Sorceress can wear it. Surely not?!

This is the way it's presented in the Lustria list.

Is it necessary to state that Corsairs may not equip the Darksteel blade? It is a big investment. And look at the Corsair models - really, they should at least have theoretical access to this weapon.

Darksteel weapons are seen as a sign of status (well, riches), which is why it was decided to make them limited to Heroes. It's also something already in the unofficial Lustria list (under a different name), so has been left as-is.

Also - please state "Dark Elves Only" in the description of these items - do we really want to gift every warband with access to these?

Unless mentioned otherwise, due to the fact that these are Special Equipment (like, you know, Special Skills), they're by default only available to us.

Last point for now - seeing as the Shadow Warrior warband is now unofficial - I totally think we should reintroduce the "Familiar"! That was the only item which was available to all warbands! In a once-official warband (that was only retired because of fluff reasons). I think it is our duty to reintroduce it to Mordheim. And yes, I really, really want to dust off my KoS familiar!

An idea I'm not at all familiar (pun aside) with, but it sounds good - perhaps keep the idea until after, or make a thread to be stickied and locked until discussion is done on the other things we have going if you're afraid of forgetting?

[Ansob.]

you say that it is +15GC, then near the end of that paragraph, you say they have to add 20, which is it?
just putting in my annoying nit-picking comment

Thanks for that. Fixed - it's fifteen.

[Jymset]

An idea I'm not at all familiar (pun aside) with, but it sounds good - perhaps keep the idea until after, or make a thread to be stickied and locked until discussion is done on the other things we have going if you're afraid of forgetting?

Cool - don't worry, I won't forget!

What did you think about my comments on the Hounds (BM thread)?

[Ansob.]

What did you think about my comments on the Hounds (BM thread)?

Answered.
Not really a reprimand, but if you could try not to "cross reference" like that, I would appreciate. Sorry for going all moddy on you, but it just takes the thread off-track. If you really want a reply pronto, PM me. If not, just keep checking the right thread for the answer.

[Jymset]

Sure, I'll remember to be disciplined!

So, characters have their own thread. The Witch Elf debate has its own thread. Equipment will be talked about later. Which leaves us where?

Well, really, to bring this back on track: As far as I am concerned, all other things seem to be gelling really well. I was considering the cost for a little bit. The characters are all very expensive, but compared to say humans, you get more in terms of abilities and stats than you loose in gold.

Going on the original Lustria warband, the Sorceress was somewhat cheaper, yet had superior stats. Did you change that based on playtests or on the wizards of other races?

I'll shut up now, I've given the input I can at this point of time...

[Ansob.]

So, characters have their own thread. The Witch Elf debate has its own thread. Equipment will be talked about later. Which leaves us where?

Any new idea completely unrelated to things we're already working one goes in here and is discussed here before a thread's made (well, er, never mind the WE thread ). In theory. This is also the place to report errors in formatting (typoes and such) and playtesting results.

Well, really, to bring this back on track: As far as I am concerned, all other things seem to be gelling really well. I was considering the cost for a little bit. The characters are all very expensive, but compared to say humans, you get more in terms of abilities and stats than you loose in gold.

Going on the original Lustria warband, the Sorceress was somewhat cheaper, yet had superior stats. Did you change that based on playtests or on the wizards of other races?

I'll shut up now, I've given the input I can at this point of time...

Shutting up isn't asked - just a little less verbose and a bit more on track, that'd be nice.
The sorceress' price was adapted to reflect the few general tweaks made to Dark Magic (some lower casting costs - Arq is the expert here, as he had more experience with magic than I did, so ask him for more precise answers). Her stats were lowered because she's a mage - this was independant of the price hike. This thread would also be the place to discuss the price of the sorceress, if people felt it was needed.

[Cenyu]

ii) Master of Poisons is a joke. Yes, I know, it is an old rule, but it ain't worth it. No way is it a viable alternative to all the other yummy skills out there. On average, one weapon will be coated - meaning that one character in the warband effectively gains +1 S - the same as mighty blow. However, the mighty blow character won't have to miss a post-battle sequence to find wyrdstone. For that potential extra Wyrdstone, the money for a standard dose could be acquired.

Correct me if I am wrong but dont you misinterprete the rule? I think it means that the hero trying to brew the poison cant make a rare items search roll. But he will still count for exploration etc. thus you do not suffer from fewer income if you use this skill.

I think this skill does make sense, especially since also crossbow bolts can be poisoned - S4 missiles are not too bad!


Perhaps a special Dark Elven poison available by this skill might be nice.

(Black Lotus? Wohoo. )

[Jymset]

, and

Yup, my very bad.....

Nevertheless, as it stands, it is still an inferior skill. I'd, for one, would still only consider it if it was at least D3 doses. Maybe.

After all, you aren't improving your own character one small bit - you are merely making something rare (only rare 8, mind you) and costly more accessible.

[Cenyu]

You may be right. But... other warbands have inferior skills as well.

Skaven Wallrunner... they already have an enormous initiative and seldom fail a climbing test... and you can buy rope and hook for 5 gold coins.


-> Not every skill has to be the uber-badass choice.


I dont know about your games but I rarely saw a chance to try and buy poisons because I always used my income for more important aspects - buying new warband members, better overall equipment. And 15 gold coins is quite a piece of income - at least in many of my games.

MoP may help to save the rare trade rolls and an amount of money - of course there is a 33§ chance that it wont work.

Perhaps it should be modified?

Roll a D6 if you choose to use "Master of Poisons" instead of searching for rare items:

1: The attempt to make the Dark Venom has failed this time. No potions are generated.

2-3: One potion is generated.

4-5: Two potions are generated.

6: Success! Three potions are generated.

It is a hybrid between D3-1 and D3 doses and still reflects the varying outcome of the makeshift creation method.

[Jymset]

I agree with all the above. But...

Your table, while a very good compromise between the two options, is probably too unwieldly, simply in size of what is printed for a single special rule.

We don't have to have uber-badass choices. But we sure don't have to follow other warbands in having piss-poor ones either!

On a different note: allow me to repeat myself:

What about the "Sniper" skill from the (now unofficial) Shadow Warrior Table? Or the "Seeker" ability from the Elven Scout (0-1 per Warband only)?

Are these viable options? After all, we will hopefully soon have the first fully-official warband, we may as well salvage some of the more logical things from those hated Shadow Warriors (yes, I'm still remembering the familiar).

[Cenyu]

Quoted from the "A new skill..."-thread:

What about the "Sniper" special skill?

I would shy away from shooting skills. We have already removed the rule disallowing ranged weapons on the fellblades ( I can't quite remember what it was called, Melee specialist?) We must avoid a shooty warband less we come too close to are Ulthuan counterparts.

Youre right about the "unwieldy" argument though.

But MoP is such a cool skill. And poison is an important element of Druchii affairs which should be reflected by some aspect of the list.

[Jymset]

Right, my bad, yet again. I resurrected that other thread.

BUT - I'm staying on topic!

I agree that MoP is an extremely colourful and fluffy skill that really, really needs to stay. My main beef with it is NOT the chance of getting nothing. No, I don't mind that, it makes sense. But I totally believe that for it to be viable at all, the average roll needs to give the player 2 doses of Dark Venom. Otherwise, it really is worse than the Mighty Blow skill, no ifs and buts.

And, because it is on this thread and so far only Loflar has previously spoken out about that: I agree, Fey Quickness is vital and I am totally glad it is back. Back to stay, I assume!

[Ansob.]

Perhaps it should be modified?

Roll a D6 if you choose to use "Master of Poisons" instead of searching for rare items:

1: The attempt to make the Dark Venom has failed this time. No potions are generated.

2-3: One potion is generated.

4-5: Two potions are generated.

6: Success! Three potions are generated.

It is a hybrid between D3-1 and D3 doses and still reflects the varying outcome of the makeshift creation method.

The reasons why I disagree:
- this complicates the whole affair needlessly;
- the average is 1.5 doses.

I think that d3 doses of poison are fine, really - a bit too stable, perhaps, and I like the above because of the 1.5 doses average, but the die roll is a bit too complicated. If we can find an alternative to this, then the skill will get immediately modified.

About making über skills - well, two things. This is an elven warband - elite, elite, elite. Secondly, posion isn't everyone's cup of tea. You may wish to search for rare items instead. These doses can't be sold. You can only apply one dose per weapon. There's quite a list of minor inconveniencies which makes this skill not one of the best we have.

And Fey Quickness is indeed back to stay.

As a general rule, steering away from skills found in other warbands that've been rendered unofficial qhould be our path. Steeling ideas is a bad idea - we're better off inventing our own skills.

[Cat-the-odd]

During the offline-time of the druchii.net I made an Armybuilder-file (2.2c) on this list. I hope somebody can use it...

There is still some debugging work to do - so I would need your report on it...

mail me: (to get thhe list)
oddbluecat@gmx.net

[Loflar]

Now, after two months, seeing the debates of various types of heroes, henchmen and skills, I think that there is something missing (or I missed it - in that case, please, point me in the right direction).

Is there any general direction of how should the warband look?

There are various types of warband available: CC oriented (hag, corsairs, WE, BM, dogs), sniping (shades, bloodshade, sorceress),
balanced (corsairs & shades) and probably several others.

I think that if we agree on how a standard Druchii warband should look like, we will have a guidance for deciding whether to include a particular skill, henchthing etc.

[Deathangel_321]

Not sniping, there are too many restrictions on numbers of shades and bloodshades for that. I think balanced would seem the obviousnormal warband... CC with some sniping backup.
More poisons would be nice just for the druchii.

The Bloodshade- am I missing something or does he not have the Natural Stealth Rule? Seems a little... odd...
And I want to see a Shadow Brotherhood Warband, of A Master Shade, 0-2 Bloodshades, 1 Shadecaster with low-level magic [has -1 to cast?] and shades and maybe some Mountain Warriors [aspiring shades]
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[Loflar]

And I want to see a Shadow Brotherhood Warband, of A Master Shade, 0-2 Bloodshades, 1 Shadecaster with low-level magic [has -1 to cast?] and shades and maybe some Mountain Warriors [aspiring shades]
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Actually, this is the same idea as I got some time ago when I realized that we have too many heroes and too many skills for a single warband.

Not sniping, there are too many restrictions on numbers of shades and bloodshades for that.

My point was, that we should first make general decision, and then adjust limits according to it. And if the decision was already made, I would appreciate if someone told me where can I find it.

[Deathangel_321]

Ah, I see what you mean then, but I still think it seems to be CC with some sniping support. I'm not sure why there are no normal warriors, I presume because this is all the way in Mordheim and corsairs do most overseas raiding. I don't know who or when the decision was made.
Oh, if you are interested in the shade warband, maybe we should start a new more unofficial thread starting to work on that? I'm up for it
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