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Alpha 3.5 PT results 
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Warband Noble
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I discussed it with other players here and the result was, that, according to A35 (and Lustria), DV can be bought for 15 gc during warband creation. Afterwards, it is 35 gc and rare. Seems to make sense.

Anyway, A35 was finally approved for the campaign here. To get the approval, I had to:

1) Drop dwarven hired swords - in fact I should not have included them at the first place, as in both cases, their description explicitly says, that they are available to witch hunters and mercenaries - i.e. humans. There was also some reasoning, that dwarves are good race, so they cannot cooperate with evil elves. I find the second reason less convincing, but the first one was good enough for me.

2) Drop the Feared and Respected rule. To my surprise, it was considered too strong, as it could allow me to be more stubborn than other players. I dropped it quite happily. IMHO it is useless and there are other skills which I would not be so happy to lose ;-)

3) Changed maximum number of attacks to 4 to get in line with maximum elven stats in rulebook.


Last edited by Loflar on Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:56 am
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Are you in a playtester group Loflar ? Or are you in contact with GW people (just to know...)
Ansob, are you in contact with someone at GW - or member of GW yourself (I remembered you telling something about presenting the band to someone).
All the work done here is aimed at the development of a new OFFICIAL Dark Elf warband for Mordheim right ?
And finally, can anyone playtest ? I would be happy to do so as I already have many customised DE characters usable for Mordheim and a brother whom I can play with quite often (he plays mercs, skaven, goblins and snots - unofficial but so much fun !)

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Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:58 am
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Lord Aldarith wrote:
Are you in a playtester group Loflar ? Or are you in contact with GW people (just to know...)

No, I just have some friends who recently started a campaign and I persuaded them to let me try dark elves.

Quote:
And finally, can anyone playtest ?

That's what I am trying to do ;-)

Quote:
I would be happy to do so as I already have many customised DE characters usable for Mordheim and a brother whom I can play with quite often (he plays mercs, skaven, goblins and snots - unofficial but so much fun !)

Then just do it ;-)


Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:05 am
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Lord Aldarith wrote:
Ansob, are you in contact with someone at GW - or member of GW yourself (I remembered you telling something about presenting the band to someone).


Egads, no! I'll thank you to not affiliate me with the Devil. ;)

Lord Aldarith wrote:
All the work done here is aimed at the development of a new OFFICIAL Dark Elf warband for Mordheim right ?


Yes. The "someone" I mentioned is Jervis Johnson, head of Specialist Games. He happens to be the one who gave us the green light on developping this warband (see if you can find Kitrik's original post or something, it quotes Mr. Johnson's email).

Lord Aldartih wrote:
And finally, can anyone playtest ? I would be happy to do so as I already have many customised DE characters usable for Mordheim and a brother whom I can play with quite often (he plays mercs, skaven, goblins and snots - unofficial but so much fun !)


Anyone can playtest, of course - the more results we have, the happier we are. Just remember to try to log as much detail in your games as possible.

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Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:28 am
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A neutral shade of black. wrote:
Just remember to try to log as much detail in your games as possible.

Sorry, that would be too time consuming :-)

OK, I had two games with my Druchii.

0) Warband creation
==============
I made my warband like this:
Noble pan Proschek: DS sword, RXB, helmet, SDC
Sorceress Barunka: Sword, RXB
Beastmistress Adélka: Sword, Beastlash, RXB
2 Shades: Sword, RXB
2 dogs - Sultán & Tyrl: teeth

OK, I know that it is not optimal, but I wanted to play with dogs and wanted some fire support. I also bought everyone (except dogs) an RXB to have them before they become rare and expensive.

1) Skirmish versus Skaven
===================
Druchii: see above, Sorceress got Word of Pain
Skaven: 6 fully tooled up heroes + 1 giant rat (yes, a bit unusual)

First, there was some manoueuvering, during which one of shades got a lucky shot and put a night runner OOA. Then some shooting followed, after which I charged assassin adept with dog, noble and beastmaster (the other dog was recovering). No result. Next turn, Eshin sorcerer charged and sliced my sorceress (i.e. OOA) and one of black skavens charged beastmistress and put her OOA. Next turn the other dog charged assassin adept, stunned him, and the first dog put him OOA. Then Skaven routed.

I consider the game balanced. If Skaven made the Ld roll, I would roll for routing in my turn. But I should also note that the Skaven player was inexperienced. I am also not a veteran, but this was her first game. All other players in the campaign are more experienced then I am.

I captured the night runner and sold him back for 15 gc. Noble found two shards, which makes 65 gc, enough to purchase lordling with sword and buckler. Sorceress gave him her RXB. I also considered giving him twohanded sword, but then decided, that since he cannot learn Strongman skill, it would be waste of elven initiative.

2) Defend the find versus Dwarves
========================
Druchii: As before, plus Lordling Vilém: sword, RXB, buckler
Dwarves: 12 almost naked dwarves + halfling cook

Dwarves made a formation on one side of a battlefield and slowly came to the building. Nothing could stop them. My shooting was ineffective (also only their Hard to Kill rule saved their noble). In a last turn, I charged one dwarf with my dogs, which resulted in a dog knocked down. They won, I got the money.

I don't think that a game against dwarves can be balanced - IMHO they have too many beneficial rules. I simply could not win.

No casualities on either side this time. I got 100 gc, which I plan to spend on another lordling. Adélka learnt Master of Poisons - I think that I need to boost strength of my attacks.


Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:55 am
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My opponent also didn't care for the "feared and respected result". He argued that it basically made DE's comparatively "stubborn" as a warband. Like Loflar, we played without Dwarf henchmen allowed, or the F&R rule. That being said, I DID include an ogre henchman. My group was:

Noble: sword/dagger, SDC, bow
2x Lordlings: sword/dagger, bow
Sorceress: bow + (witchflight)
beastmaster: beastlash, bow
hound
(hired sword) ogre: 2HS

This is SIX models for Wyrdstone rolls, since hired swords don't count as warband members for purposes of the search (although I have now learned that animals DO count). If I have 7 models, I get fewer GC for the same number roll in the wyrdstone search.

My opponent:
My friend, Doug, likes Skaven, and he wanted to try out Deathangel's list (found here: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t= ... f1b439af50

In short, it's 13 rats, 6 with slings, 4 kitted heroes (inc. Assn, 2x Black, Sorc.)

My strategy: there was no way I could outrun/outmaneuver the skaven (since theyr'e faster than elves), so I figured I would try to gun them down with my bows while taking the high ground by taking advantage of my better WS/BS, and then try to kill the rats that attacked me HTH on top of a building, hoping a few would fail their climb rolls to reduce the numbers. Since my hound cound not climb (and my ogre would likely fail), I left my Bm, hound, and Ogre, on the ground, where they could flank the rats and hopefully pick off a hero or 2. My shooting would also focus on the Heroes of the enemy, hopefully reducing their leadership and causing a route test.

Terrain: 6 buildings on a 4ft x 4ft board. Basically the buildings were set up like this:

(skaven side)
________________
1 xxx ooooo xxx 1
1 oooo xxx oooo 1
1 xxx ooooo xxx 1
1 oooo xxx oooo 1
1_____________1

(DE side) xxx= building, 1 and _ = board edge, oooooooo = open space

Skaven gets first to set up and first turn, and the sorc. gets the spell: Black Fury
Doug (skaven) deploys his troops in 2 forces, hoping to flank my position. 3 slingers plus the Assn, B, and Sorc. on the left flank (to the right of the NW building) and 3 slingers, 3 clubbing Verminkind, and the other B on the right flank (to the left of the NE building).
I deploy my noble, 2 Lordlings, and the Sorceress to the left of the South most building (so that all my characters have angles of fire, but are flush against the building ready to climb). My hound, ogre, and Bm are to the R of the South building.

Turn 1 (S): The rats, overconfident in their numbers (2:1), head straight towards my forces, with the slingers in the lead (setting up a firing perimeter). The heroes lead from the back, assuming that as a clump, they will not be shot at (he forgot about how people can pick out individual targets if they have a height advantage). The 3 slingers shoot at my Noble from long distance, but the combination of moving and long distance mean only 1 hits. He wounds, but the SDC on the Noble blocks the shot. ( I breathe a sigh of relief).
(DE): the N, 2 L's, and S climb to the top of the S building, now have cover, and fire on the Assassin. 3 shots, 2 hits, 1 wound on a crit, and 1 OoA Assassin! Another lucky shot manages to stun the Skaven sorcerer.

Turn 2 (S): worried about gettign shot to bits, the non-slingers now run forward to set up a charge, with the skaven on the left trying to set up for a climbing assault on the DE heroes, while the other skaven on the R flank get set up to charge my bm/ogre/hound group (in the hopes of taking out the DE heroes and forcing a route test). They know the ogre and hound have greater M, so accept the likelihood of a charge. They angle so that the "flank" of the ogre and hound will be open to the other rats if they want to countercharge. 12 shots by multi-shot slings, 2 hits, 0 wounds (thanks to cover bonuses)
(DE): 4 bow shots from the N, L's, and sorc. only manage to Stun a black skaven this round. The ogre and hound charge the 3 club-wielding vermin plus the Blackskaven. The Bm fails the charge, and is too far to be involved in battle. Between the ogre and the hound, they manage to OoA the Blackskaven.

Turn 3 (S): the verminkind mob the ogre, and thanks to a lucky crit with the club, the ogre is OoA!!! NO!!! The slingers charge in to help take out the Bm and the hound. The other slingers on the left keep up their futile shooting.
(DE): more shooting by the N and lordlings manage to OoA a slinger. Then, realizing that one more OoA will force a Rout-test, I take a chance and use witchflight to charge my sorceress onto the know "knocked down" Black skaven. The auto-hit, and lucky wound (with no AS), caused an automatic OoA. Forced Rout-test!!! Unfortunately, he rolls a 4 (needed a 6), and holds... D'oh! My gambit failed!

Turn 4 (S): surrounding my hound and Bm, the hound is quickly put OoA by the 3 slingers. The other slingers on the left, shift their goal. In tandem with the Eshin sorcerer, they angle to get a charge on my now solitary sorceress.
(DE): 2 models OoA (my hound and ogre), my bm sorrounded 3 to 1, and my sorceress about to be charged by 4 models. I decided it was time to accept the loss, and take a voluntary rout to keep my heroes alive for the warpstone check.

Final tally:
4 skaven OoA: Assassin, 2 Black Skaven, 1 Verminkind slinger
2 DE OoA: Ogre HS and Hound

The recovery phase was very unkind to my opponent:
Assn: Dead on a roll of 15
Black skaven 1: Bitter enmity (56) vs. my warband
Black skaven 2: Captured (61) --> I sold him to slavers for 30GC
Vermin slinger: Dead on a roll of 12

My recovery phase went OK (80GC worth of GC + the 30 from the captive):
Hound: dies (1)
Ogre: lives (3)

Analysis: Bows worked very well with BS 4. They are a very good cheap alternative to RxB's. HS's seem to be fairly effective as another member of the party early, as you can increase your party number without losing on the Wyrdstone charts. Small numbers, as always hurt, but keeping nobles alive was key.

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Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:28 pm
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2am and I really need to go to bed, so I'll read all that tomorrow morning (yay for detailednessness! ^^); but I have one thing to say: F&R isn't going anywhere. The rule is great; it's fluffy, completely useless and only serves to make the player more confident in his noble and the opponent more afraid of him. Not running is actually a malus in Mordheim, you know. :roll: The rule could change if people still think it's overpowered, but other than that...

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Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:42 pm
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It is probably matter of playing style. Sometimes, some players decide to try to not route, because they think that next turn they will achieve objective and win. In such case, F&R would help. I tend to minimize losses, so it is not a big help for me.

To sum it: Let's let Specgames sort it out ;-)


Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:40 pm
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I just read Geophrim's report and, I must say, I'm very satisfied with the way things turn out. From that log, it looks like the DE warband is finally performing decently in early stages like every other warband.

Bows do seem a tad overpowered there. I'm wondering if we shouldn't limit them to shades? They're still BS4, but it just means that the heroes can't use "primitive" weapons (whilst the shades, who are tribal, can).

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Hail to the King, baby.
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Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:15 pm
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Before deciding if bows are overpowered or not, we should see how well they work when a player isn't sitting immobile and sniping with them. For example, if I was "running and gunning" against a slower, VC army, I'm not sure how well the bows would work (-1 to hit on the move after all..). I think the results might have been much more different if I had been shooting from street level, for example...

Also, The sample size is probably too small to tell one way or another yet. Additional detailed playtest rightups would help. I'll try to get another round in soon, again with my same starting warband (not with XP added) but against a different kind of opponent. But yes, they did work very well for me in that battle at least! ;) Rgds, Geophrim

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Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:50 am
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3) Dogfight... no. Skirmish versus Witch Hunters
==================================
Druchii:
Noble pan Proschek, DS sword, RXB, helmet, SDC, buckler
Sorceress Barunka: Sword, Word of Pain
Beastmistress Adélka: Sword, Beastlash, Master of Poisons
Lordling Vilém: Sword, buckler, RXB
Lordling Jan: Halberd, RXB
2 Shades: Sword, RXB, 2A
2 dogs - Sultán & Tyrl: teeth
1 Corsair: Axe
Rating 127

Witch Hunters: 5 heroes, 5 dogs, 3 flagellants with WS 4, 1 halfling cook

I did a strategic mistake before game - all heroes, including Adélka, went shopping for RXB. They did not get it anyway, and I had to go without poison. So I invested the money into corsair.

After my usual not very smart deployment I screwed movement and ended with most of heroes out of reach and weak center, consisting of a shade and hidden corsair. I tried some shooting and magic, but with no result.

The shade was charged by three dogs. Rest of WH just moved to get into charge reach for their next turn. One of the charging dogs was stopped by corsair, who went OOA. Shade survived and stunned one dog.

In my turn, I sent Sultán for kamikadze attack on one of flagellants in hope that he will survive the first turn and create a distraction. He was hit by flail and went OOA. Adélka charged the stunned dog and put him OOA, Tyrl charged the dog which has bitten my corsair - no result. The dog attacking my shade was charged by the other shade and put OOA. (Barunka tried to help here by casting WoP on the dog, but failed, as always.) Pan Proschek tried to shoot one of the two "reserve" dogs with no result. Jan shot at halfling and failed to hit. Vilém finally got to a position for charge next turn, shot at someone, and did not hit.

In WH turn, Tyrl was charged by two remaining dogs, Adélka was charged by a witch hunter and flagellant, and one shade was charged by two flagellants. Tyrl put one of the dogs OOA, Adélka stunned the flagellant and the shade went OOA.

Then I voluntarily routed. I might be able to join the fray next turn with noble and lordling and help things a bit, but then I could also easily lose noble, lordling and BM.

All three henchthings recovered, and I have some money, so I consider getting WE.

As written above, I screwed the movement and was not massacred thanks to some lucky dice rolls. WS4 flagellants are quite nasty. I actually feared to attack them with anything but dogs - they are cheap (compared to elves). Again, no special elven rule was triggered this game.


Last edited by Loflar on Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:15 am
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Geophrim wrote:
Before deciding if bows are overpowered or not, we should see how well they work when a player isn't sitting immobile and sniping with them. For example, if I was "running and gunning" against a slower, VC army, I'm not sure how well the bows would work (-1 to hit on the move after all..). I think the results might have been much more different if I had been shooting from street level, for example...


Agreed. Except I have a counter. :P

For one, bows on everyone makes buying an RXB (two times the shots for two and a half times the price) pointless. This is not what we want.
Secondly, from a fluff point of view, bows for corsairs and nobles don't make sense whilst bows for shades do.
Thirdly, it's something I can use to cut back the bitching from the people who don't like bows in an elven warband.

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Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:10 pm
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Bumpety.

And after thinking some more on the subject of bowd, I really wish I could get them for my heroes. I'd appreciate people took a side on this one. :P

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Hail to the King, baby.
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Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:10 pm
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Bows for Shades only, says this puritan! :P

Being one of those who did the bitching, hehehe.

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Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:19 am
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Pale Warrior wrote:
Bows for Shades only, says this puritan! :P

Being one of those who did the bitching, hehehe.


Okay. It makes more sense than bows on everyone, and I've just reworked my starting warband for PT purposes without RXBs on the Lordlings, which means I can finally buy some henchmen! >.>

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Hail to the King, baby.
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Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:16 am
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A neutral shade of black. wrote:
Okay. It makes more sense than bows on everyone, and I've just reworked my starting warband for PT purposes without RXBs on the Lordlings, which means I can finally buy some henchmen! >.>

I just think that if you want your PT warband to develop, you will find it hard to get an RXB later. 40 gc Rare 8. But don't take it as an argument for giving bows to heroes. It is an argument to give them RXB at the beginning. IMHO if heroes were allowed bows, they would never get RXB, because of the price and rarity.


Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:33 am
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Loflar wrote:
40 gc Rare 8.


Bows on heroes are a definite no (forgive my momentary lapse). That price is a pain, by the way, but there isn't much that we can do... Fluffically, it's correct.

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Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:44 pm
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4) Breakthrough versus Reiklanders
==================================
Druchii:
Noble pan Proschek, DS sword, RXB, helmet, SDC, buckler, Fey Quickness
Sorceress Barunka: Sword, Word of Pain
Beastmistress Adélka: Sword, Beastlash, Master of Poisons
Lordling Vilém: Poisoned sword, buckler, RXB, 2W
Lordling Jan: Poisoned halberd, RXB
2 Shades: Sword, RXB, 2A
2 dogs - Sultán & Tyrl: teeth
1 Corsair: Axe & sword
Witch Elf Viktorka: Sword & Dagger
Rating 141
(Poison kindly provided by Adélka.)

Reikland: 6 heroes, 3 swordsmen, 6 marksmen

I chose to attack. There was an important terrain feature - we call it "farm house". It is a ruin about 8"x8" with entrance (i.e. big hole) in one side, some windows (about two in the wall opposite the entrance, two in the entrance wall, and about three or four in the other sides), and some walls separating it inside, but leaving the center part free. There is also second floor, running around the outer wall, somewhat resembling arena. The farm house was near right side of my deployment zone with entrance to my right side.

I set up in two loose groups. First consisted of Adélka, dogs, Barunka and shade - this one should try to get through. Others made the combat group and tie the enemy. Of course, plan did not survive contact with enemy ;-)

The combat group ran to the outer wall of the farm house, avoiding windows, Adélka tried to sneak around left side of battlefield, Barunka moved to nearby ruin for a feeling of safety and comfort and their shade had hidden behind the ruin.

Reiklanders had captain with crossbow on a nearby tower, and the rest was split in three groups. First, led by fear-causing youngblood, went around left side of farm house, second, consisting of some marksmen and a swordsman, entered the farmhouse, and third went around the right side.

In my turn, Adélka and dogs moved a bit forward again, and almost everyone went into hiding. The shade by a farm house was peeping inside through the window and the shade of Adélka group tried to shoot the fear-causing youngblood, but missed.

Left Reikland group only slightly shifted forward. In the farmhouse, swordsman went forward far enough to uncover the shade in window (which brought him under 4" of Viktorka). Right group slightly moved forward. Then, the Reikland captain shot the Adélka's shade and put him OOA, while Reiklanders in the farmhouse (and some of the right group) did not manage to hit the shade in the window.

Viktorka charged the swordsman, surviving shade charged nearby bowman, Vilém, Jan, and corsair moved into building behind the inner walls, so they could not be seen and shot at.
Adélka with dogs moved closer to the left group to stop them from flanking the combat group (now it was obvious, that the game will be decided by a route test), and hided behind a statue. Pan Proschek tried to shoot an archer, but missed. Jan also tried to shoot someone, but missed. Barunka again failed to cast a spell. In combat, the swordsman was knocked down. I am not sure about the fate of the archer ;-)

Poison prevented recovery of swordsman. Most of right group charged into farmhouse. I don't remember details - there were four fighting groups: one with the shade, then corsair, Viktorka and Jan. The left group sent a swordsman forward to uncover Adélka and Sultán behind the statue, with the youngblood as a backup. There was some shooting at Adélka, Sultán and pan Proschek, but ineffective. In combat, Viktorka was knocked down.

Viktorka recovered, Vilém charged the poisoned swordsman, Sultán charged a bowman fighting with Jan, Adélka with Tyrl charged the swordsman who uncovered them and pan Proschek charged a crossbowman. Barunka again failed casting a spell... Adélka stunned the swordsman and Tyrl finished him, Viktorka knocked a youngblood down, Vilém did not manage to wound the poisoned swordsman, corsair put his opponent OOA and pan Proschek was knocked down. And the shade was stunned.

Both poisoned Reiklanders recovered. Pan Proschek was charged by another Reiklander (could be the talented lad?), Tyrl was charged by the fear-causing youngblood (and was very afraid of him), Adélka was charged by bowman and champion.
Corsair was left there, alone and unhappy, a target for Reikland captain, who fortunately missed. Pan Proschek went OOA and Sultán put an archer OOA.

Then I failed the Ld test and routed.

Pan Proschek and one shade recovered, the other died. This could be acceptable, if he was not buried with his RXB.

To sum it, dogs are great even without striking enemies down. I am so sad that dog cannot become a hero and possibly leader of band... Dark venom did not help much thanks to dice rolls. The same applies to magic. Maibd poison is pretty good, it saved Viktorka from attacks which could put her OOA.

And now, when I want to test skills, I roll for stats...

I got 60 gc, which is enough for a new experienced shade, but he will have to get RXB from some lordling.


Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:21 am
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5) Wyrdstone hunt versus Sisters of Sigmar
==================================
Druchii:
Noble pan Proschek, DS sword, RXB, helmet, SDC, toughened leathers, buckler, Fey Quickness
Sorceress Barunka: Sword, Word of Pain, I6
Beastmistress Adélka: Sword, Beastlash, Master of Poisons, T4
Lordling Vilém: Sword, buckler, W2
Lordling Jan: Poisoned halberd, RXB, Ld9
2 Shades: Sword, RXB, A2
2 dogs - Sultán & Tyrl: teeth
1 Corsair: Axe & sword, I6
Witch Elf Viktorka: Sword & Dagger
Rating 150
(Adélka did not manage to make poison this time.)

Nuns: heavily reduced from their encounter with Skaven, who ate the Matriarch. Augur in command, three sisters superior, six henchnuns. Rating 97.

I expected an easy win. How wrong I was...

Wyrdstone shards happened to be on one half of the table and nun player chose that side. I split into two groups, one (pan Proschek, Vilém, Barunka, both shades and corsair) to go for the nearest shard and meet their group, the other (Jan, Adélka, dogs, Viktorka) to provide flank threat. One of shades went on a near tower to provide fire support.

He concluded, that dogs will be easy and dispatched a strike group (Augur, one SuperSister, two nuns) to kill them.

The encounter happened at a small square with a statue in the middle (which is big enough to block LoS etc.).

The shard was laying in the open and nuns were quite close, so I decided to take a chance. Barunka went out of cover, took the shard and successfully casted (for the first time in the campaign) Word of Pain on the nearest nun. I expected nuns to charge her and hoped for surviving their turn, after which I would charge with everything. Pan Proschek hided behind the near building to intercept their charge, Vilém and corsair moved closer for counter charge, "ground shade" moved into charge range and tried to shoot someone and so did the "tower shade". None hit. The other group took positions in a small building across the square. Jan stood behind in a vain attempt to shoot a nun.

The Augur group moved to house where my "flank group" was hidden, and started to study my dogs through a window, thus unhiding them. Main group of nuns did not charge. They went into the open as well and started throwing stones on Barunka. Fortunately, none of about six shots hit her.

In my turn, Sultán and Viktorka charged the nearest nun by a window and Tyrl charged one SuperSister. Adélka and Jan were not in the charge range, so they just moved closer. On the other side of the square, pan Proschek, Vilém and corsair charged nuns. Barunka again failed to cast a spell and shades did not hit anyone. Sultán missed, but Viktorka put the nun OOA, and Tyrl knocked the nun down (I finally rolled 6 on charge to-hit roll). Pan Proschek was unable to hit his nun and Vilém proved equally incompetent. Fortunately he had a corsair by his side, who sent their nun OOA.

Then the remaining nuns joined the fray. Augur, with a swift wild sweep of her steelwhip, skillfully knocked Sultán's weapon from his hand (criticals, bludgeoned weapons, 5). When he realized this, and the fact, that he has no hands, let alone weapons, it completely stunned him. Pan Proschek was hit by a sigmarite hammer and went OOA (so I had AS 5+, which is negated by S 5...). Corsair was also hit and died. Tyrl managed to survive this turn.

In my turn, Viktorka and Adélka charged Augur, while Jan charged Tyrl's nun. Vilém was alone among nuns, so Barunka and shade charged to support him. Barunka again did not cast the spell, shade on tower did not managed to hit anyone. Viktorka went OOA by whipcrack.

I do not remember details of the sigmarite turn, but when it ended, I had four models on the battlefield. Both shades in good condition, knocked down dog, and knocked down Vilém, who immediately declared a route.

Fortunately, serious injuries rolls were acceptable. Jan hardened and Adélka's multiple injuries turned out to be an old battle wound. Corsair died. Barunka learned Deathspasm, Shades got +1Ld. Viktorka became a lad with talent, but was not promoted to hero. It enraged her, so she got one more attack instead.

Vilém found one shard of wyrdstone, so I bought toughened leathers for lordlings and beastmistress.

Disaster. Shooting ineffective. Armour ineffective. Superior WS not sufficient. Dogs are best members of warband, followed by WE. Heroes almost never achieve anything...

Stay tuned for more defeats.


Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:50 am
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That was a defeat? I'm under the impression you came out rather well, really... ;)

Just a question - has anyone had a Lad's Got Talent result yet in your campaign? I'm more and more thinking that that rule of ours should go.

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Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:29 am
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Reikland had. So did dwarves. Twice, as I am told. Maybe nuns.

Yes, the rule should go. By itself, it might not be that bad, but combined with unavailability of "Seeker" hired swords, low number of members (resulting in higher probability of hero going OOA), high starting experience (resulting in slow learning of new skills, which could help, like Wyrdstone Hunter) and high price of equipment (and rarity) it really hampers. My fire support is getting weaker, because I cannot replace lost RXB's.

OK, I had some bad luck with advances, I have high Ld and I where I don't need it, and my shades are almost better in CC than in shooting, but still...

I think that we need the throwing knives. They are cheap (compared to RXB), and short ranged, which means that RXB would be preferred weapon and knives something to be purchased when budget is short.


Last edited by Loflar on Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:32 am
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Long-lived is definitely going, then. Great; that makes the list simpler, with less special rules and makes everyone's lives easier.

The problem with throwing knives is the same problem Arq raised with rope and hook: why us? The throwing knife isn't a national Druchii weapon, which means we have no real reason to include it.

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Hail to the King, baby.
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Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:17 pm
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6) Personal business versus Marienburg
==================================
Druchii:
Noble pan Proschek, DS sword, RXB, helmet, SDC, toughened leathers, buckler, Fey Quickness
Lordling Vilém: Sword, buckler, toughened leathers, W2
Lordling Jan: Halberd, RXB,toughened leathers , Ld9, Hardened
Sorceress Barunka: Sword, Word of Pain, Deathspasm, I6
Beastmistress Adélka: Sword, Beastlash, toughened leathers, Master of Poisons, T4, Old battle wound
2 Shades: Sword, RXB, A2, Ld9
Witch Elf Viktorka: Sword & Dagger
2 dogs - Sultán & Tyrl: teeth
Rating 151
(Adélka was recovering from her wounds, so she did not make poison this time.)

Marienburg: Five heroes (including stupid champion), ten henchmen.

Personal business is a scenario we play instead of surprise attack. It is essentially Skirmish, but you can also win by putting enemy leader OOA and there are no route tests. Routing voluntarily is possible.

I was outnumbered, so I decided to go on defensive. Pan Proschek, both shades, and Vilém went to three-floor building in my right corner. Barunka went to another high ruin just across the street, Viktorka stayed in the centre of my line. On the right side I deployed a strike group: Jan, Adélka and dogs.

Marienburgers also split into two groups to face my two groups. Only their captain stayed back, hidden in a small ruin.

One of groups slowly approached my "fortress", the other tried to get control of battlefield - some shooters climbed on some buildings.

I will skip some turns - there was a lot of manoeuvering. Generally one group went for my fortress, while I was adjusting deployment on my left side, finally getting pan Proschek with shades to firing positions on first floor (in view of his marksmen, but hidden) with Barunka and Vilém guarding the entrance.

Their other group probably wanted to control the centre, but I moved for their captain, which caused them to enforce this group and go after my strike group. Then I started to pull back slowly, always staying in cover - Marienburg player looked quite frustrated ;-)

At the time, Viktorka slowly moved left to help against Marienburg attack group. It was a bit difficult, as she had to move across streets already watched by Marienburg marksmen, while their attack group was soon to get clear view of her.

I was quite confident, that I can manage the attack group - it was only 4 members now, the rest was hunting my strike (or rather decoy) group. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of moving Viktorka too close.

Next turn Viktorka charged Marienburger youngblood in a small space between the edge of a ruin and the edge of the table. So Vilém got out to help her in the next turn and Barunka hided in the door to possibly help with magic - when they get to her range. Viktorka did not wound the youngblood. My decoy group was still slowly pulling back.

In Marienburg turn, Vilém was charged by a swordsman (through a window I did not notice) and Marienburger champion, staying behind the youngblood, failed stupidity test. On my right wing, a brave swordsman ran forward, unhiding Adélka and Jan. Adélka was then hit by a crossbow shot and went OOA. In combat phase, Vilém and Viktorka's youngblood went OOA.

Next turn, both dogs failed stupidity test and Viktorka charged the stupid champion. Jan pulled back to a building, hiding again - by losing Adélka, my decoy group was effectively defeated. My two shades managed to knock down the swordsman who defeated Vilém. Pan Proschek did not shoot to stay hidden. Viktorka did not manage to wound the stupid champion.

In Marienburg turn, the champion stayed stupid. Jan was not well hidden and was charged by another champion. One of my drooling dogs was charged by a swordsman, unhiding the other one. The knocked-down swordsman recovered and hided in a near ruin. Fourth member of Marienburg attack group shot a blunderbuss at Viktorka-champion duel, hoping, that at least one of the two will die. Neither did. My unhidden shades became targets for Marienburg marksmen, and one went OOA. In combat, dog went OOA and Jan was knocked down.

Then I voluntarily routed.

Vilém was robbed and Adélka got scars which made her look scary. Shade and dog recovered. I found shards for 60 gc plus corpse with sword.

I wonder what would happen, if I managed to move Viktorka so she did not have to charge. I still think I could take the attack group if it came closer. But the situation was difficult and there was really nowhere to hide.

I really liked the evasive action of the decoy group. It took Marienburgers several turns to get them, and if Adélka survived the shooting, the swordsman would likely die next turn.

DE models are not very good for Mordheim - some of them do not fit into the buildings. Especially sorceress, but also beastmaster with whip and claw (Adélka), RBT commander (Vilém), BG soldier (Jan) and shades with swords above head.


Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:53 am
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7) Skirmish versus Reikland
==================================
Druchii:
Noble pan Proschek, DS sword, RXB, helmet, SDC, toughened leathers, buckler, Fey Quickness
Lordling Vilém: Sword, buckler, toughened leathers, W2, Ld9
Lordling Jan: Halberd, RXB, toughened leathers , Ld9, Hardened
Sorceress Barunka: Sword, Word of Pain, Deathspasm, I6
Beastmistress Adélka: Sword, Beastlash, toughened leathers, Master of Poisons, T4, Old battle wound, Scars
2 Shades: Sword, RXB, A2, Ld9
2 Witch Elves - Viktorka and her assistant: Sword & Dagger
2 dogs - Sultán & Tyrl: teeth
Rating 167
(Adélka was recovering from her wounds, so she did not make poison this time.)

Reikland: Six heroes, nine henchmen, one ogre.

The terrain was not good this time - just several buildings, wide streets etc.

I sent Adélka, dogs and one shade to the building on the left side, the other shade to the building on right side, one WE on the right flank. The rest was massed in the middle. I had a real problem to find enough hiding places which would allow charging the enemy. And, against Reikland, I was not willing just to go into the open. As they did.

Reiklanders, led by ogre, came forward in one big group. They exchanged some arrows with one of my shades, but with no result. (Actually, the shade hit the ogre, made a critical wound, the arrow ricocheted, hit the nearest archer, but did no damage to any of them...)

I was trying to prepare an ambush, without much hope that it will work - some models just could not be positioned in cover with LoS to enemy.

Ogre went into charge range of my right-flank WE. Reiklanders separated into combat group, going slowly forward, and shooting group, staying back.

WE charged, caused the ogre one wound, and went OOA. One shade managed to put a Reiklander OOA. The shooting group presented an interesting target, so I sent Adélka with dogs in their direction.

Ogre moved to bait the second WE. Reiklander captain put my shade OOA.

WE and Jan charged the ogre. Others did not have LoS or were not in range, so they moved to provide support while trying to stay out of LoS of shooting group. Adélka with dogs moved into charge position - unfortunately it meant, that they could not hide. Barunka tried Deathspasm on the ogre, but she was a bit out of range - and I did not roll it anyway. But WE and Jan managed to put the ogre OOA.

About six Reiklanders charged WE and Jan. A blunderbassier shot Adélka OOA and knocked dog down. After the rest of shooting, the remaining shade was stunned and the other dog knocked down as well.
Jan and WE went OOA.

Then I voluntarily routed.

Basically, I lost because of clever use of ogre, which I did not anticipate.

Jan is now nervous elf, but learned Stesso Tempo. Adélka learned Step Aside. Pan Proschek learned Wyrdstone Hunter - finally some skills! Viktorka's assistant died. I got 60 gc - this will allow me to replace my loss buying an experienced WE... and that's all.

Some random thoughts: higher initiative of heroes leads to less experience for them. I have already noticed several times, that hero in a combined charge with henchman "does the work" e.g. stunning the enemy model, and then the henchman "makes the kill".

I also noticed, that we did not think about multiwound models when devising the Maibd Poison. When the ogre was wounded for the first time, the poison got into his veins. But no effect...


Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:46 pm
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Loflar wrote:
I also noticed, that we did not think about multiwound models when devising the Maibd Poison. When the ogre was wounded for the first time, the poison got into his veins. But no effect...


That actually doesn't matter much. Bascially, when somebody is poisoned, the typical reaction is that first, they get affected by the poison, and then the body adapts. The problem is when the poison is a deadly one, at which point the body or brain is killed off before the body can adapt.

In addition to that, a multi-wound model (especially that has the corpulence of an ogre, but we're assuming that anyone resistant enough to survive a blow that would have felled a normal man follows the same pattern) is tough enough to hold the poison at bay until at least once the adrenalin stops pumping through his vein. The thing is, he gets hit by the initial full force of the poison, first.

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Cenyu wrote:
Hail to the King, baby.
All my eloquence fails to express it as well as this.


Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:08 am
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