Circlet of Iron

[Cerelil]

Just noticed something, in the Delf army book it mentions that when Malekith found the Circlet of Iron, something changed in him that influenced him and "awoke in him" a dark curiousity.

As this artefact predates the elves, and isn't Lustrian in appearance, it must be an artefact of the Old Ones or some other alien race, and what I noticed, it that the crown bears a striking resemblence to The Deceiver's crest, of the Necron 40k army. And The Deceiver influenced races into performing acts for him... so perhaps Malekith's actions were indirectly, hell, even directly as a result of foresight, influenced by The Deceiver?

[Dalamar]

40k and Fantasy have no connection.
Even more so, Necrons are (and were) completely detached from the warp, they don't use/understand magic/psionics while the circlet is undeniably a magical item.

[Sulla]

Pretty sure the Deciever and Nightbringer are C'Tan, not Necrons (nitpicking, I know ), but otherwise, I completely agree with the above.

Elves=/=Eldar, otherwise 40K Slaanesh would gobble them up.

[Drainial]

It’s nice to think outside of the box, but Malekith (the novel) spells out pretty clearly that the circlet was found in a chaos temple (for want of a better word). Now we can argue until our typing fingers are bloody and raw about whether BL is cannon or not, but it is as good a source as any and I am inclined to go with it.

[Dalamar]

Malekith (the novel) doesn't spell out it was a chaos temple.

They find the place in the chaos wastes sure, but chaos wastes are just that, chaotic. The place is described as alien architecture (not outer space alien, but "we haven't seen this civilisation around" alien... just like the ruins in the Underway) of some lost civilisation (who says there was nothing there before the Old Ones came?) Not Chaos... but powerful and beyond the understanding of the Warhammer Races.

[Drainial]

That is why I said for wont of a better word. I am extrapolating not only from the location but because of how the architecture of the place is warped, it is described in a very similar way to how Chaos temples and landscapes are described in BL books e.g. the Eisenhorn trilogy. No it isn't concrete, it just seems most likely.

[Dalamar]

Everything in Chaos Wastes becomes warped, doesn't mean it's born of chaos.

[Drainial]

True, it just seems likely to me.

[Eolelfslayer]

Well, GW head staff has the separation between 40k and whf not very clear, or at least it varies in time. I mean, at first (RoC era) it was obvious they where the same universe, and that was stated then and again. From the mid-late 90's up to a couple years ago weh had solid confirmations thee gaming universes were unrelated, no matter they had the very same gods, compatible models and so on. In recent times things are no longer so separate. I myself have no clue, yet the OP theory sounds pretty cool!!!

[Cerelil]

Personally, I think/speculate the fantasy world is in the Eye of Terror, which explains why the world would be rich in magic, and in 40k there were Old Ones travelling across the universe propegrating life. And the Slann spawned by Old Ones in 40k? They could have easily influenced the Fantasy world during their travels.


But thats just me.

[Drainial]

It makes sense and allways has done (give or take the odd myth, e.g. the gods of the elves are real, those of the eldar were destroyed and eaten by Slaanesh exept for the Laughing God whose name I can't remember and Khaine who got shattered into the avatars.) But its GW game and they say the two are unrelated, I have no idea why but there we have it.

[Ichiyo1821]

Now a better question would be, what exactly did Malekith see? What does the Circlet do exactly. Suppose we take the GW fluff and assume that the Circlet of Iron gave Malekith a "view" of a possible future where he can either:

1) Sees his rightful place as ruler of all elfkind and thus the reason he wages his war full of conviction even after a near death experience agaist Teclis.


2) Come full circle and be like his father and save not only Nagaroth and Ulthuan but the entire WH world and save the Empire (those familiar with Legend of the Five Rings can relate this story to the Scorpion Clan)

It would be interesting if the latter was the case despite being so anti-climactic but I'm actually getting tired of the Dark Elves never really gaining any ground against the High Elves. I know its what makes both races interesting when you see their place in the entire scheme of things but come on now...He has outlived how many Phoenix Kings and yet with all his power, his planing and Morathi as one if not the most powerful Seer by his side he cannot push deeper into Ulthuan.

Now if you look at it from that aspect, did the Circlet also fortell of him failing to regain the Throne thus his hatred? Is he fighting fate, risking destroying the world by letting Chaos slowly make its way through his kingdom? Just a few thoughts that came into my head while waiting for the clock to go so I can punch out and get home...

Oh btw all that I've said up there...that is IF that what the Circlet does...

[Tah kazak rik]

40k and Fantasy have no connection.

All lies. Two words: Old ones.

The Old Ones are the connection, and the fact that Greater Daemons have same names.

Then consider that the Old ones arrived in Space Ships, and brought the Spores of Greenskins with them.

All prove that the two have connections. Its all in the BRB.

______________________________________

Now on topic:

The race that Malekith finds in the Temple/Shrine, are a mix of all the races. Just read the description. They have bones the thickness of humans, short in torso but long in limb like elves, and the height of dwarves.

I personally think that they were the race that the Old Ones used to create the seperate races. They are obviously not a race that we know the name of, but they may have been the first race the Old Ones created, or they may have been the original race before the old ones came and were used to create the sperate races.

I think the Circlet was a object created by the Old Ones, but brought to the planet.

However having it be a C'tan object would make sense, however the Old Ones arrived at the fantasy world to escape the C'tan, so Im not sure on this one.

[Dalamar]

There were Old Ones in 40k
There were Old Ones in Fantasy

There is nothing to prove that they are the same Old Ones, and GW clearly said they're not.

Greater Demons having the same names is laziness on GW's part.

GW clearly said that the two worlds have absolutely no connection, and whatever connection you want to draw yourself will never be a canonic truth, it will be fanfiction.

[Eolelfslayer]

GW clearly said that the two worlds have absolutely no connection, and whatever connection you want to draw yourself will never be a canonic truth, it will be fanfiction.

Hello, well that's only partially true.
They said, at first, the two universes were one and the same (whole rogue trader era, and up to late 2nd edition), then they said they where different (say from mid-late nineties up to 2008), now they sat neither yes or not.
I agree, however, it is a rather long shot.

[Dalamar]

Yes, and one of the covers for the 1st edition of WHFRP (The Enemy Within?) had a nurgle warrior with semi-automatic gun...

But that's past, GW is notorious at retconning fluff, you just need to keep up with what's current.

[Tah kazak rik]

GW clearly said that the two worlds have absolutely no connection, and whatever connection you want to draw yourself will never be a canonic truth, it will be fanfiction.

Well then please explain the Liber Chaotica.

The Book is written by a Fantasy author from the Empire, but the book clearly states that he has seen Space Marines, Bolt Guns, Chain Swords, Dark Eldar, Plasma weapons, Chaos Marines, and Ork Mechs.

That is an obvious and clear connection, and is GW offical fluff.

[Drainial]

The only way to explain that is to remember that GW have no interest in continuity and every interest in making money, by putting in 40k stuff they can sell it to a few 40k players who aren’t interested in fantasy.

[Dalamar]

Liber Chaotica?
Simple, same reason why demons have matching names

Why write two books where 90% of material will be word to word the same when you can write one, about chaos in general and have separate sections on fantasy and 40k.

[Tah kazak rik]

Liber Chaotica?
Simple, same reason why demons have matching names

Why write two books where 90% of material will be word to word the same when you can write one, about chaos in general and have separate sections on fantasy and 40k.

No, see, that is a cop out. You say that were I to say that the two games are connected is fan fiction, well I say if you were to deny that there is one, that you are in denial.

They are connected, the Liber Chaotica, and the BRB show this to be true, to say otherwise is simply not the truth, and GW may deny this, but they have failed to make them not connected.

[Drainial]

Yes that it pretty much the case, the two universes are connected in many ways except GW say they are not, no it doesn't make any sense but that’s GW for you.

[Tah kazak rik]

Yes that it pretty much the case, the two universes are connected in many ways except GW say they are not, no it doesn't make any sense but that’s GW for you.

Your right, that is GW for you

[Noxy]

Just noticed something, in the Delf army book it mentions that when Malekith found the Circlet of Iron, something changed in him that influenced him and "awoke in him" a dark curiousity.

Now a better question would be, what exactly did Malekith see? What does the Circlet do exactly. Suppose we take the GW fluff and assume that the Circlet of Iron gave Malekith a "view" of a possible future where he can either:

1) Sees his rightful place as ruler of all elfkind and thus the reason he wages his war full of conviction even after a near death experience agaist Teclis.

2) Come full circle and be like his father and save not only Nagaroth and Ulthuan but the entire WH world and save the Empire

The story of Malekith finding the circlet and the reasons of this change are related in detail in "Malekith - Book One of the Sundering", written by Gav Thorpe for Black Library.

I'd recommend reading the book, unless you'd prefer the spoilers?

[Drainial]

Noxy, as you are new I am assuming that you are not very familiar with the site rules, read them. It is bad etiquette to raise threads that have been dormant for long periods without good cause. If something has died then let it be.

-Drainial, DH mod

[Blondshade]

the circlet may very well be ctan in origan. i think it could be possible that malekith turns into the deciever at one point in time. i will have to read a necron book to confirm this

EDIT: See the above post, let dead threads lie unless you have something new to add. Also the deceiver is one of the C'tan and the C'tan were born with the first of the stars, Malekith is old but not that old. -Drainial