Halfelves?

[Auere]

Is it common for the elf races, namely dark elves, to "mate" with humans - thus creating half-breeds...?

For dark elves, I am thinking that they could take themselves some pleasure in raping beautiful human women on their raids, or prehaps when they bring them back as slaves. Or is this below dark elves - and would the women ever carry any offspring?

For Wood Elves and High Elves, I could imagine a few "fairytale" love affairs between humans and elves.

I am not good with the warhammer lore. Perhaps someone can enlighten me?

[Malus99]

I doubt there have been many such occurences, in elves of just about any faction they all have the arrogant, superiority complex which is just about summed up in that scene in the king arthur movie (the one with Kiera knightley) where the head Saxon (played by the bloke who did 'Bootstrap Bill' in PoTC) tells a norseman who is assaulting a captured woman 'don't pollute the bloodline' or something similar. It is possible that it may have occured sometime, but I doubt if there would be many such pairings because elves consider humans a 'lesser race' and any offspring would probably be considered an abomination, it is certainly not mentioned in the GW Lore.

OT: who thinks Stellan Skarsgård's 'Cerdic' in King Arthur was one of the most awesome villains ever? Shame he didn't feature more.

[Guinea pig hydra]

I think that DE would certainly, erm, have their way with any female slaves should they wish, but would probably kill either them soon after (either on the Altar or for fun) or if a particularly tasty damsel then keep them and kill the child. This would probably be mostly Corsairs however, as Highborn probably wouldn't stoop so low as to mate with lesser beings. No half-breeds for DE as far as I can see.

WE hate anything not from Athel Loren. Their love is for the wood and the wood alone. They're a secretive bunch those Green Elves, so I can't see any half-breeds from there either.

And HE would take the route of the Highborn Druchii, and not wish to pollute the bloodline. And if they did they would likely be exiled from Ulthuan.

And to Malus, thank you for making me think of Keira Knightley

[Auere]

But it would be possible? There would be an offspring from a human and elf mating...?

If it is possible, it must happen on occasions. In the case of dark elves: If they take their liberties on the women when raiding, it would occasionally happen that the dark elves afterwards are hunted down by humans and their slaves freed.

In this case, what would happen to the "half-elf" children and their mothers?

[Guinea pig hydra]

It is entirely possible that there may be a half-blood wandering the Warhammer world somewhere. Absolutely. But it is also possible that there is a Goblin-Rat, or Lizard-Dwarf.

I believe it would be most likely to be a HE/Human offspring, that would then be exiled, or wander the Earth so as not to be found out and cast out by either race. A HE trip to the Empire or Bretonnia, or a ship-wreck, could lead this to happen, but it would not be an Elven female, and even then I think it incredibly unlikely.

DE slaves are captured, taken to Karond Kar, claimed by anyone on the ship and then the Nobles, so a slave would not be retaken having been impregnated. Until they're back on the ship, it's all about finding more.

It's entirely possible, as is anything in a Fantasy world, but I find it hard to believe there's been a Beren & Luthien, or Aragorn/Arwen out there.

[Malus99]

But it would be possible? There would be an offspring from a human and elf mating...?

If it is possible, it must happen on occasions. In the case of dark elves: If they take their liberties on the women when raiding, it would occasionally happen that the dark elves afterwards are hunted down by humans and their slaves freed.

In this case, what would happen to the "half-elf" children and their mothers?

Whether it is possible I do not know, elf biology is not something I'm particularly knowledgeable of, if we take our queue from LoTR though then it is possible, as there are children of elves and men in those books (as well as star trek with Spock's mixed heritage).

As to what would happen to mothers and children, I do not know, it entirely depends on the circumstances, if nobody knows it is an elf child (she is rescued before showing signs of pregnancy and then sleeps with another man so they think it is his) and it is born without complications and the people nearest her are sympathetic and she wants to keep it and the witch hunters don't hear about it and nobody with an elf-grudge hears about it and... lots of ifs.

Basically, I reckon that as soon as the child is suspected/thought/known to be part Druchii (whether in the womb or after its birth) it would be shunned by just about everyone and many people would probably want it put down (and it is a lot easier to get the child and mother out of the way whilst she is pregnant, if the Druchii heritage is discovered before it is born then both child and mother are probably done for, the longer the time after birth the child's heritage remains undiscovered the better the chance of survival if mum wants to keep it), at which point, its survival entirely depends on if the mother wants to keep it.

If the mother does she will probably run away, it will grow up in the wilds, if it isn't hunted down by witch hunters and similar, or if it isn't killed by the myriad lurkers in the forest (which is unlikely, but this is a fairy tale sort of story so we will ignore any pretences of realism for the moment). If it survives into adulthood then who knows what will happen, the only thing that is for certain is that the half-elf will always be an outcast, hated by everyone except the dark elves for being druchii, and hated by the Druchii for being part human and therefore inferior.

There is a really good story in that, I think I'll start writing it now

Guinea Pig hydra: has Keira Knightley ever appeared in a film without showing at least a little bit of thigh?

[Guinea pig hydra]

Guinea Pig hydra: has Keira Knightley ever appeared in a film without showing at least a little bit of thigh?

I hope not.

~~~

It would have to live a life in the wilds, with or without it's mother - if it starts on Elven lands. DE would kill it or throw it in the Cauldron (thereby killing it). HE would exile it. WE would do one of either.

However, the possibilities of it surviving and prospering in human lands (which so long as it wasn't discovered by the Druchii) is much more significant. With it's heightened abilities due to it's Elven bloodline, it would do well in the Human Armies. However, should it ever go to war with any of the Elves (DE more likely) they would do their utmost to find it and kill it. Failing that, word would probably reach them sooner or later.

[Flash29]

well i don't actually think ists possible, of course i am aware this is fantasy, but technically dark elves/ humans / dwarfs/.... are all diffrent species. and they consider them such. (like how we sometimes eat human) and by defenition 2 difrent species can't produce offspring. Their is the famous phrase in the empire (those who lay with the rat will bear the halfling" which i doubt is possible, but amusing. so yeah technically not possible but then, it is fantasy, so science doesn't really have any claim here.

[Syjahel]

My gut feeling is no, it's not possible.


For myself I'm a bit of a canon person, I like to have my facts as straight as I can get them, so unless GW have rescinded any earlier references to half-Elves then one might say they could happen. But ultimately, I can't recall any definite references to half-Elves in Warhammer either; if there are, I suspect they'd be in the older versions of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

I had a much longer answer, but I'm re-reading it in case it comes across wrong.

... so my answer is, "I don't exactly recall what GW said, but I really hope not!"

[Maldor]

I would agree that Dark Elves would consider any half-breed union an abomination and would destroy it. The Asur may occasionally sire such an offspring, but this is conjecture based more on other fantasy sources and would nonetheless be a rare occurrence. The Asari's distrust of outsiders would prevent such a thing happening among the wood elves.

However, I did have an idea awhile back regarding another outlet for half-elves in the WHFB universe. Prior to the Sundering, the elves had colonies spread around the world, which became lost with the coming of the schism. Just as those who stayed behind in Athel Loren gave rise to the Wood Elves, it is possible that a few elves stayed behind in Cathay and Nippon. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine them intermarrying with the native human population thousands of years before the Empire, passing to their mostly human descendants extraordinary grace, longevity, and discipline. In the WHFB storyline, a little elven blood could provide for the source the mystical qualities usually associated with the Far East.

[Drainial]

There are still fortresses in such lands, that much we know from looking at the world map (though what state they are in is anyone guess).

Biologically I think perhaps it could be possible, though the chances of a pregnancy occurring and surviving without complications is probably not that high. Socially I think male human elven female is allot more likely since rape is going to be pretty much the only realistic circumstance this would happen. Elves might consider humans a lesser race but humans consider elves exotic and mysterious (also frightening and enigmatic of course but that would only add to the excitement).

I don't know that it would be killed strait away, though it depends on the circumstances. I can see in a fairly liberal human settlement he might be brought up fairly normally (he/she may not even show signs of abnormality for years). DE would probably either kill him/her or enslave him/her, though a curious or whimsical lord might keep him in his retinue to see how he progressed, a curio rather than a family member.

At the end of the day it is a fantasy world and if GW have no position on the subject I say do what you like, but this is warhammer and so happily ever after doesn't happen.

[Calisson]

There is no definitive answers, as this is fantasy.

In litterature, Tolkien wrote about half-elves. They were offsprings of elves who renounced their immortality in order to become mortal as humans and mate with them (after falling in love). The half elves were able to have children too. IIRC, there was an elf king who had a human grand-grand-grand son king of a human kingdom at the same time.

In roleplay games (Dunjons & Dragons), half-elves are quite common. There are also sometimes half-orcs and half-ogres. However, there are no half-dwarfs (?!) or half-gnomes.

Scientifically, a single species is defined when there is a possibility of fertile offsprings. A great example is dogs. Future archeologists discovering dog bones will be convinced that they are tremendously different from each other and from wolves, however there are just a single species as they can mate and have offspring (when impratical because of size difference, use medium dogs and check if the large dog and the small one can mate with the medium one).
So the physical differences between elfs and humans are not enough to preclude having offsprings.
It could be also like horses and donkeys, which offsprings are not fertile themselves, contrary to horses and poneys who can breed freely.

As we are in a fantasy environment, weird things can happen.

The posts above were mostly about storytelling.
Well, even if all druchii are supposed to be this and that, it does not prevent some individuals to be different and accept what other druchii would never consider. It could be tolerance or perversion, but why not?
The son of a noble druchii and a slave woman could be held alive secretely by competitors in order to embarass him.
A wounded corsair could be healed by a small farming community lacking vigourous males to take care of the farm.
Or it could be a particularly nasty human and a normal druchii falling in love with each other? Some humans living in Norsca may appreciate a true druchii spirit!

Well, anyway, this is fantasy.

[Sulla]

If Humans can breed with Lings to make Half-Lings, I'm sure they would be fertile enough to procreate with Elves.

[Tah kazak rik]

I think that DE would certainly, erm, have their way with any female slaves should they wish, but would probably kill either them soon after (either on the Altar or for fun) or if a particularly tasty damsel then keep them and kill the child. This would probably be mostly Corsairs however, as Highborn probably wouldn't stoop so low as to mate with lesser beings. No half-breeds for DE as far as I can see.

But if they had children with Slaves, then why not just use said children as...Slaves. It just makes the work force are the more large. I can easily see their being Half-breeds in the lowest depths of "our" mines and "our" forges.

And I would not doubt that some Highborns have certainly had their way with a slave or two. They are chattel remember, and to be used for anything "we" desire.

[Drainial]

But there are elven slaves as well, its not a question of could they but would they.

[Tah kazak rik]

But there are elven slaves as well, its not a question of could they but would they.

Well I dont see why they would not, its not like they would admit to being the father/s of said half elves and so it would be very easy to get away with.

They would be born and its off to the mines!

[Drainial]

It is a matter of pride, taste and pedigree.

[Tah kazak rik]

It is a matter of pride, taste and pedigree.

Well if I was a Dark Elf Lord, and I had hundreds of female slaves from all sorts of nations, I would certainly use them for what I pleased, because remember they are simply tools for our use. It is my right to use my property to what ever ends, and there is no shame in using them as such.

And I would of course never ever be the father of any babies, because we cannot directly "mix" with any other race, and so any babies born would be used to serve my forges, kitchens, and mines.

[Malekii]

I doubt a dark elf would stoop so low. And if it was a lord/slave situation the lord would probably kill the slave straight after

[Gramnir]

I know its fantasy, but still...

Biologically speaking, it should be possible if the species of men and elves are relatively closely related. In that case the ofspring (halfelf) would be infertile (unable to sire ofspring). If humans and elves can have fertile ofspring, they are the same species (acording to the biological species definition). Therefore elves and humans would be no more different than a european and, say, an australian aboriginee. Basicly that would meen that elves and men are the same (wich seems unlikely, as elves live to be several hundred years old.

A possible halfelf would therefore be something akin to a mule, and not be able to have his own kids (Some mules can actually have ofspring, but its extremely rare, as horses and donkeys have a different number of cromosomes)

If highelves have a totally different evolutionary history than humans, the chance of them being able to have ofspring with humans would be about as big as a horse having ofspring with a cow...

for the same reason, a half dwarf half lizardman would never happen, as the two species are not even remotely related

Just my 2 cents to give a different viewing angle to the question

Edit: Sorry, didn't see that someone had already mentioned this

[Eolelfslayer]

Hello all, well i dont think we have any documented half elf in warhammer as of late. Back in the 80's we had half orcs, and i think GW made some half elf models about then, but i am not sure they were actually given rules. The possibility of a (high) elf spawning an offspring with a human is shortly explored in the novel "Gilean's blood", but its not a given fact, rather a suspect the main characters have. Of course dark elves do actually use and abuse humans, and we have full references of this in virtually all of the novels featuring dark elf riders. The fist that springs to mind, probably because its the last one i have read, is "elfslayer" from the felix & gotrek serie. There we have a corsair surrounded by naked (possibly lobotomized?) human females, and both male and female humans being taken to the dark elf pleasure houses as sport. Cheers!

[Kaleth stinson]

When i first read this post, i though that elves would never have coitus (thanks Seldon) with a human slave, but after reading the first 100 pages of the first Malus Darkblade book, my opinion changed. Even tho they never actually said that they raped the wife of the Bretonnian guy, it sure would seem that way. Then i thought, why not? Why wouldent elves reproduce with humans? There are actuall humans in our world that have intercourse with animals, dead people etc why wouldent elves have human fetishes, and in the movie Avatar, the main guy fell in love with that blue chick.


So yes i think it could happend, but as GW havent said that there are any half elves yet, then in the warhammer as far as im consurned, there are non.

[Malus99]

When i first read this post, i though that elves would never have coitus (thanks Seldon) with a human slave, but after reading the first 100 pages of the first Malus Darkblade book, my opinion changed. Even tho they never actually said that they raped the wife of the Bretonnian guy, it sure would seem that way.

I think they very carefully skirted away from that by implying that they were torturing her, in the Malus Darkblade books, I thought that, despite having humans in such positions dozens of times over, they were never interested in sexually abusing them, only torturing them and I thought they made that point pretty clear to emphasise the difference between what an evil human would do with a woman in such a position and what the DE did, which is just to flense the skins from their backs and separate flesh from bone... so on and so forth with numerous other agonies, rather than sexually assault them which is what Chaos Marauders might do for instance.

I think a scrap of evidence against half elves is contained in the Brunner books, specifically the one detailing Brunner's hunt for the Black Prince (Daemons, Dragons, Chaos Champions, he killed them all, but he couldn't get a Druchii!) On the last page where the black prince is musing on the deaths of his two half-sons:
"It was no matter, the two departed elves were nothing but mongrel Half-breeds sired upon a filthy aborigine... In death, his sons had proven how pathetic and unworthy of his blood they truly were."
If he thought so little of them when they were children of a Druchii and wood elf, how much more pathetic would a half-human child be? We would probably have a much better idea if we knew whether the Black prince sired them to gain more followers (and whilst they may be only half druchii, they were still better than the rest of the gutter trash he employed) or as further punishment against the wood elf envoy? But alas we weren't told one way or the other. Although if the Black Prince stooped to the level of siring children upon a wood elf, whatever his reasons may have been, I do not think it such a stretch to imagine using a human instead, so I think it is possible.

[Drainial]

Wood elf and human are really very different levels for a dark elf, if we take an example from our own past it is not so long ago that sons sired by a white European on a black woman would be considered half caste. Here I would say that a wood elf might be considered a savage, but still an elf just as in the 18th centaury Africans were considered savages, but still humans. To an elf a human would be more akin to a chimpanzee.

[Malus99]

fair point, also the black prince is a fairly low and rather desperate form of druchii, he is an exile (an exiled exile, hmmm) and a failure (or else he wouldn't have been exiled) and doesn't have much in the way of power, he is little more than a petty bandit, and a very poor one at that by Druchii standards if he employs men and beastmen of the kind he does, He might be scary to the people of Bretonnia but I think most Druchii would find his title as the 'Black Prince' quite laughable. So I think that we can safely say that by Druchii standards the Black Prince is quite pathetic, and even he sees a wood elf with such contempt, so a true Druchii would need a really good reason to stoop so low as a human, and I doubt they would do it for fun (disregarding the slaaneshi, they'll stick it in anything).