Malekith vs Asuryan

Lord damian valar · Post by **Lord damian valar** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:30 am

Hail friends,

I've been reading up on some old threads about Malekith and the sundering here on D.net and there is one thing that come up in my mind.

Why is it that the general opinion is that Malekith was turned aside by Asuryan as he entered the flames?

I mean, he stepped in, was burned, but on his own power stepped out again. Thus he lived through the ordeal. I admit, not in his best health, but surely had the ubergod wanted to he could have killed Malekith in the flames. Perhaps he merely cleansed (punished) him for his arrogance, but still found him worthy of becoming Phoenix King.

I am very interested in your opinions on this matter..

D...

Malus99 · Post by **Malus99** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:37 am

Interesting idea, it could be interpreted as such, I think that really you must make it through unscathed to be found worthy, but then again, Bel Shanaar went through loads of rituals and preparation beforehand to make everything go right, Malekith didn't have that chance to prepare. I think the fact that Malekith was found wanting is not in question, but the fact that he wasn't entirely consumed does point somewhat to the fact that he was not entirely a lost cause.

I think Asuryan just didn't want to put Malekith on the throne because Malekith and his line were held by Khaine, putting Malekith on the throne would mean Asuryan losing power to a great rival, gods can be jealous too you know, I think Asuryan was playing favourites and the elves, or fairness for that matter, be damned! :lol:

Post by **Drainial** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:11 pm

Aenerion is still the only elf to actually be found worthy, all of the so called Phoenix kings who followed have only made it out alive and with all of their skin because of protective spells. As far as I can see Asuryan didn't necessarily reject him, he just didn't bless him and so the fire did what fire does. It might also have to do with the way that Aenerion was giving himself as a willing sacrifice in order to save the elves, he didn't expect or hope to be made into a king. No one else has approached the flame in the same way.

Flash29 · Post by **Flash29** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:13 pm

also malekith flinged himself but it actuall was already to late, malekith did die shortly after the ordeal, only to be revived by morathi as she poored all her malice, hatred and dark magic into him for a year. Then he needed to be incased in special armour as he stil felt the pain of asuryans judgement.

then at the battle at finudel pass teclis his spell took malekith out since it invoked the pain and suffering he felt in asuryans flames as it was stirred from deep inside him. so bad was this that he flung himself into chaos rather then undergo that terrible pain and realisation that he was not to be.

Lord damian valar · Post by **Lord damian valar** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:40 pm

Where do you get the knowledge of Malekith having died afterwards? I have never read anything hinting at that...

Also, since I am pretty sure he did NOT die, this fact alone makes his claim for the Phoenix Throne al the more stronger. Yes, the flames of Asuryan burned him, but did not kill him. He stepped in, was judged, punished for his arrogance, but left alive and thus according to Elven custom deemed worthy by Asuryan to rule.

I think this is where Malekith loyalists went wrong. While Malekith was knocked out and being patched up again his followers should have pressed politically and religiously, instead of waging war against the rest of Ulthuan. By the time he recovered it was already too late and the war was already comitted.

Fingol23 · Post by **Fingol23** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:04 pm

One theory I have seen is that Malekith came out the flames the same way he came in.

The theory suggests that for it to work you have to pass through, die, and come out the other side reborn. Just like a phoenix. Unfortunatly Malekith found the pain too much and did not complete the process.

Post by **Drainial** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:20 am

Difficult to make that a concrete theory seeing as how only one elf has ever successfully passed through the flames, it is impossible to know if what happened to Aenarion even could happen again.

Also Lord Damian Valar, there was no custom of passing through the flames at the time really; only two elves had done it after all. Besides which war was pretty much inevitable at that point. Many of the other princes had already been killed by Malekith when they attacked him after he poisoned Bell Shannar (claiming that he had poisoned himself). If Malekith had become a demi-god like his father then maybe the other princedoms would have fallen into line, but nothing less that that was going to do the job.

Tah kazak rik · Post by **Tah kazak rik** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:13 pm

Drainial wrote:Aenerion is still the only elf to actually be found worthy, all of the so called Phoenix kings who followed have only made it out alive and with all of their skin because of protective spells. As far as I can see Asuryan didn't necessarily reject him, he just didn't bless him and so the fire did what fire does. It might also have to do with the way that Aenerion was giving himself as a willing sacrifice in order to save the elves, he didn't expect or hope to be made into a king. No one else has approached the flame in the same way.

I completely agree.

I think it was not a rejection, just not an acceptance. Malekith was falling into darkness at this point, and I believe had he entered the flames years previous, I think he would have been accepted. But his actions after Bel's ascention to the throne, really cost his soul, and cost him acceptance.

Post by **Drainial** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:53 pm

I don't think he would ever have been accepted even at his best, and neither would anyone else; that level of divine intervention was necessary because of the Daemonic invasion, after the vortex there was no reason for Asurian to bless anyone.

Tah kazak rik · Post by **Tah kazak rik** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:19 pm

Drainial wrote:I don't think he would ever have been accepted even at his best, and neither would anyone else; that level of divine intervention was necessary because of the Daemonic invasion, after the vortex there was no reason for Asurian to bless anyone.

Yeah, that probably would be true.

Flash29 · Post by **Flash29** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:01 am

Lord Damian Valar wrote:Where do you get the knowledge of Malekith having died afterwards? I have never read anything hinting at that...

i get it from the time of the sundering novels, the second book the shadowking.

Here malekith is transported from the isle like all the dead nobles in hearses, then his mother comes to see, and bursts in fury, and then leaves with the huge amounts of warriors of nagaryte. during this it is hinted enough at that malekith must be dead, and not on his deathbed, else he would be tended to rather then transported like this

Lord damian valar · Post by **Lord damian valar** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:32 am

@flash29, I see. Thank you. I have not read Shadowking yet (it is ordered and cant wait for it to come in) so I did not have this info.

Malekii · Post by **Malekii** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:14 am

How do we know that the same thing didn't happen to Aenaron I mean he was so epic he might not have been as vunlerae to pain.

Flash29 · Post by **Flash29** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:21 pm

causa malekith burned to a crispy prince, his golden armour melted with his skin, his hair got burned of never to grow back and he needed to be encased in magical armour just to be able to continue his life as it seems he was made bedridden because of it (again i base myself on the shadowking).

Blondshade · Post by **Blondshade** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:09 pm

I wonder what he looks like. Probably vey scary stuff like Freddy Kruger and legolAs had a kid or fused together.

Pic anyone?

Saintofm · Post by **Saintofm** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:49 pm

Also, remember that Anerion threw himself into the flames as a sacrifice. He prayed for 3 days strait, then offered himself up in order to save the elves. Instead of becoming consumed, he was transformed into an avatar simply because of what he was willing to do to defend his people. Malekeith's reasons, nor his methods to seizing the thrown were noble.

Malus22 · Post by **Malus22** » Tue May 03, 2011 9:39 am

Hey All i think that if malekith did enter the flames years previous he would have been accepted and the druchii wouldnt exist so im glad he didnt enter previously