The Convents, a pondering

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Drainial
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The Convents, a pondering

Post by Drainial »

So I find my mind turning to the convents of sorceresses and find that I don't know very much about them. The are all female, supposedly celibate, lead by Morathi I think. They also seem to have an aversion to clothing. That isn't much to go on for such an important and enigmatic part of Druchii society. I haven't read everything though, nor am I these days as much of a background buff as I once was. So I wonder if anyone knows more than me. Particularly I am interested in their organisation, leadership and political influence.
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Saintofm
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Post by Saintofm »

Here's how the official and expended fluff works.

To ensure that there are no rivals for power, Malekwith has decreed all spell casters save for him must be female. This is because he'll only die at the hands of a sorceror (although the profeiy said he didn;t need to fear bladdes of elves, men, or dworves, but that leaves room for ogres, goblins, and daemons :)


In the malus books, the Temple has a few male spell casters, but they consider themselves to be more or less priests of Khaine and using the power of a god than the (Warp Sword of Khaine).

There is a coven for each for the major settlements, including the black arks. The coven of Ghround is the most powerful and the one each sorceress of the land would give an arm and a leg to get into, so much guile and backstabbing is used.

Ghround is the closest to the chaos waste out of the main cities, and is more of a overgrown fortress than a true settlement. Because of how close it is spell casters can scry the winds of magic to foresee victory, traitors, and enemy assaults. Every now and then the winds provide them nothing to see and when that happens.

As magic works now, dark elf wizards have a certain amount of wild abandon to their methods. Unlike other wizards who try to have some form of mental guards preventing them from too much juice, it seems sorceresses maybe fratboys or Boy Scouts at heart when it comes to explosive power: more is good. This may mean they may blow themselves up, but hay whats a lost arm to gaining power?

Older editions had Slannesh being a major force, and while the current book doesn't mention him too much, the big 8th ed book says the Prince of Pleasure's favorite followers are the proud and haughty elves.
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Post by Syjahel »

That's very much what I have read. Politically, there isn't much in the rulebooks but it is worth pointing out that Morathi seems to have been the one to develop Dark Magic and so she will very likely have influence over all (read: as many as she can, since there are a few who don't learn by official channels). It also states in one that failed Sorceresses risk madness and death, and may end up as simple drudges and slaves, their minds broken. So it's a high risk, high yield strategy to try to become a Sorceress.

I think it's worth quoting the idea that Dark Princess suggested to me a long time ago, which is that instead of Convent, which as a word conjures up about the least Druchii life possible, what was meant was actually Coven or Covenant. Because Sorceresses are very much not nuns. (See clothing-averse, above - I think the official explanation for that is some nonsense about feeling the Winds of Magic directly through one's skin.) Speaking along those lines, nowhere does it say that they have to be celibate, only that they are forbidden from having children.

In the Malus books (I'm not sure if it's in any of the Army Books, but I can check), Sorceresses are nominal Brides of Malekith. I see this as a way to send a clear signal to anyone with dynastic ambitions that there will be no Sorceror-Houses threatening his rule to Naggaroth.

I'd say that having a daughter who is a Sorceress in the family does bestow a degree of political influence, but one can be sure that Morathi will make it her business to be informed about it. Since she is the most powerful Druchii Sorceress (along with her many other hats), there is also going to be fierce competition for her tutoring, which not all will receive, and as with all Dark Elven endeavours there is going to be a lot of internal rivalry between witches.

Interesting subject, and one I shall go and read up on :)
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Post by Amarok »

One of my favourite aspects of Druchii lore. I shall try to relate my views, whilst keeping in mind how it effects the house of my Highborn...

The gender issue has been mentioned. According to the 6th ed army book, this is due to a prophecy in which our paranoid king is brought down by a sorcerer. Thus, he outlaws males using magic ... in his kingdom (I feel that an important point). He then tries to control the use of magic by decreeing that the members of the covenant are his brides... Thus controlling any genetic passing-on of magical talent.

My issue with the covenant itself is that it is ruled over by Morathi. Who we all know is a favoured disciple of the dark prince. Ergo, the entire covenant is corrupted with the taint of chaos.

Therefore, my Highborn is forced to look for insight into the winds of magic outside of the laws of our illustrious king. A staunch supporter of the old ways, (Khaine currently ascendant in the pantheon of the first speakers), he will have no dealings with the tainted 'brides of malekith', lest they poison his soul, as they (Morathi) have poisoned the souls of the Druchii.

He employs a male sorcerer. Renegade (naturally). Unknown depths of power etc. Considering Asur mages are some of the most able bodied magic users in the warhammer world, it is (to me at least) odd to think that the Druchii have not had a supremely powerful sorcerer since Furion. With the obvious exception of our crippled, paranoid king....
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Post by Saintofm »

Another ting mentioned in last edition and this edition in the sorceress section is males sorcerors are sometimes used as a method of working off debt or gaining favor in some covens. Any male caster found is as good as dead, but left incognito can be a valuable ally.

When it comes to sex and relationships, try malus books are a much better guide. Basically women folk can have as many lovers as they like, but a male must have only one or they are seen as a weakling. This doesn't stop alot of guys from trying, Malus was born from such a relationship, but the stigma still remains.

Malus doesn't seem to worry about that as he is a Dark Blade, which is a dark elf euthanisom for illegitimate child (a dark blade is a blade of weak metal) and a incredible insult. He's already seen as a weakling, might as well have some fun (although he tends to be the loyal sort, suprise suprise).

Now for a slight segway back to sorceress baby making. The whole marrage thing to the Witch King is to keep competators at bay. He may never see half naked spell caster number 3994 in Ghround, but it takes balls of steel to want to court her. Thus it means it's a first line of defence against any possible baby super sayan elves.
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Post by Calisson »

Fluff apart, I recall having read somewhere that GW just wanted their sculptors to issue cool semi-naked babes. So they did. Afterwards, they adapted the fluff.
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Post by Saintofm »

Calisson wrote:Fluff apart, I recall having read somewhere that GW just wanted their sculptors to issue cool semi-naked babes. So they did. Afterwards, they adapted the fluff.


It's high fantasy for the most part. The fact the witch elves don't count as having a 1+ armor save is a miracal all things considering.
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Post by Ming »

Gw sculptors delivered really few sorceress models. And they aren't cool at all, even if I have to admit they are mostly naked. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall just 1 model on foot each edition, starting from sixth, and one useless model on cold one in 6th and 7th. Compared to WE spellsingers they are crap.
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Post by Drainial »

Good stuff, personally I am not sure just how much Maly would be taking in his 'brides' what with the stare of mummy over his shoulder. It is as I thought it seems, there isn't much in the way of information about the inner workings of the convents. I didn't really expect there to be but you never know.

By way of conjecture I should imagine that each of the six cities would have some kind of leader, Morathi probably representing either Ghrond or Naggarond (the one being the city of sorceresses the other being where she probably spends most of her time it being the capitol). Druchii being Druchii I could also imagine a good deal of rivalry and enmity between each of the convents with no small amount of back stabbing and plotting one another's downfall. Perhaps a structure similar to that of Aes Sedai in the wheel of time series* but based on geographical location rather than ideology to split people.

Above all I suspect the sorceresses serve the convents and themselves first but probably do often attach themselves to the retinues of powerful lords or other figures so as to keep an eye on them and influence them. They might even form attachments to those houses but I suspect it wouldn't stop them betraying them for the good of the convent or personal gain. As always we can only conjecture.

On the subject of there being no powerful male sorcerers aside from the two legally sanctioned ones that is not difficult to explain. Even the most talented mage needs training to reach their potential and the only place to get the best training is in the convents where he wouldn't be able to go, so he will have a third rate magical education if one at all. In addition even if Teclis was walking around he wouldn't last long with a whole nation set against him. He would either want to be very quiet (maybe joining a cult), leave Naggaroth or would try to kill the king (the prophesy has to be about someone after all).


*If you haven't read them I recommend that you do. The organisational system essentially goes something like this. Girls enter the tower (read convent) as novices, after training and tests become accepted and then finaly Aes Sedi. Replace those levels with more druchii sounding names and you are fine there.

Each Aes Sedi is free to choose between seven Ajahs, groups within the organisation split along ideological lines. Here I think sorceresses would be different as there is not one convent but six major ones.

Each Ajah (convent) has its own leader selected in its own way and ruling in their own manner but each individual still has a great deal of freedom to act independently. All come under the rule of the one big cheese at the top; the Amrylin seat or Morathi respectively.
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Post by Amarok »

Yeah that sounds pretty spot on Drainial. To draw another parallel, it is possible the convents 'take charge' of any male children shown to have a affinity with the winds of magic, whisk them away to the towers, never to be seen again. Then they simply kill them. Rumours abound, leading to protective mothers hiding evidence of magical ability, and giving rise to a very small population of 'hedge mages' (a la Daughter of the Empire). That would fit in with the small paragraph in the 6th ed army book that Saintofm refers to.

Excellent point regarding education too. I guess when you have 'eternity' (or close to) to hone your abilities like our Fisher King and Furion (is fluff regarding the dark fruit of life still canon?) then its not an issue. However, when some jobsworth would turn you over to the Black Guard for the smallest cantrip, things become a bit trickier.

On that note, I would think the Great Changer would be a legitimate path to knowledge for an ambitious Druchii Sorcerer. And certainly I think Tzeentch would rejoice in having an elf 'changing' the world in his name (even if his own flesh were resistant to mutation).

Hmm, I think my sorcerer may be hiding a dark secret regarding his religious allegiance...
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the One.
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To write it down for all the world to see...

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Post by Syjahel »

I absolutely agree that the "all Sorceresses marry the King" is an act of political control; after all it makes even a casual dalliance some kind of high treason. And we all know Malekith takes a 'robust' approach to treason.

Given that sorcery provides an avenue of power I also think that noble houses would be very keen to be in the good graces of a Sorceress, so that they might court their political favour. Marriage alliances are out, but the Sorceress must have come from somewhere, so no doubt she is 'encouraged' to remember her roots. But family loyalty is a famously fluid concept among the Druchii, and their ability to remember a slight is legendary, so I am sure that political factions on all sides of an argument pay close attention to the Sorceress and vie for her attention.

Another thing I'd suggest is that, partly because of the tightly controlled access to magical tuition, the sheer level of arcane power these ladies wield is outside the comprehension of the average Dark Elf. Not much scares the Druchii, true, but they bend and shape raw magical power to their will. It's quite possible that just being around a Sorceress is an unnerving experience, whether or not she's half naked.


As a small aside
like our Fisher King


Amarok, how did I miss this before?! Points on my mythology card! :O
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Post by Druchiishootlord »

To my knowledge there is only one other male sorcerer, currently recognized at least is indeed Furion, that Malekith allows to live just so happens to have been around since the Sundering. That said, as others have mentioned, there are certainly male sorcerers who live in Naggaroth. It is official fluff, under the box talking about the Prophecy, that males are employed to avoid owing a debt to the Convent. Some place in the AB it mentions that it's usually a blood debt to be paid. I think that may be just as much of a reason as any that any male caught using magic is killed.

I do have to say that I contest the fact that Morathi is the head of any of the particular Convents, which number 6. I assume based on the fluff for the Black Staff that the only official Convents are in each of the cities, also 6.

Now my contention with the fact that Morathi is the head of any particular is under the fluff for the Pendant of Kaeleth. It mentions that the Pendant was used by the FIRST High Mistress of the Convents. From previous knowledge we know that Ghrond was established to watch for Chaos invasion and thus sprang the Convents. That small passage leads me to believe that Morathi does not lead any one Convent but all owe fealty to her. On top of that the fluff on Morathi, like Malekith, tells us that she doesn't serve anyone or even consider anyone her equal. For Morathi to lead a Convent would mean that even if only in title she has equals.

While it is by no means concrete evidence I do think that if we properly add together what we know about Morathi and the small script given for one of our items it is enough to say she doesn't lead directly but more in the same manner in which she is considered the head of the Temples of Khaine.
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