What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

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flatworldsedge
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What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by flatworldsedge »

So the chaps in GW alluded to an elven "resistance" remaining in Naggaroth post ET: Khaine events. Shades and the "shadow king" were the words they used, but wouldn't divulge more.

I'm hoping someone who's read the book can give a proper spoil on what this might be?

Not being in Naggaroth anymore is one of the things that disappoints me about ET:K, and I haven't seen anything to suggest there are any Druchii left there. Would love to know before I plunge into the arduous task of rebuilding my own fluff.

Thanks!
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Payce »

The Shadow King is Alith Anar, elusive head of the Shadow Warriors and archer of some badassery.

Personally, not being in Naggaroth anymore means that my entire army lore if ruined, so I am still pondering what to do for myself :P
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Curse_Bearer »

I remember Hellebron told all of her Khainites to stay in Har Ganeth and keep killing, but I'm not sure if they abandoned Naggaroth in the end. If anything, there is a continuous continent-spanning melee between Khorne and Khaine worshippers that fits my fluff very nicely ;)
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Dalamar »

Malekith gave order to leave, all cities but Har Ganeth were put to torch.
Hellebron remained in Har Ganeth for the massive slaughter party until she left to try and steal the Widowmaker (and nearly succeeded).

Naggaroth is now an extension of the chaos wastes now. Nothing but demons and marauders.
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by flatworldsedge »

Thanks all - useful. Not sure what the GW chap was on about.
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Makiwara »

Payce wrote:The Shadow King is Alith Anar, elusive head of the Shadow Warriors and archer of some badassery.

Personally, not being in Naggaroth anymore means that my entire army lore if ruined, so I am still pondering what to do for myself :P


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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Calisson »

Watchtowers submerged.
Har Ganeth devasted, Hellebron remained for a while then abandoned.
Ghrond, protected by magic thorns, apparently held by Morathi but abandoned in reality.
Naggarond, defended while besieged then abandoned by Malekith, burning.
Hag Graef, defended then abandoned by Malus Darkblade, later KIA.
Clar Karond sacked and ruined, refugees join Malus.
Karond Kar submerged by Norsemen and Skaven. Abandoned by Lokhir (later KIA) and Drane Brackblood.

As a result, Naggaroth is abandoned to chaos hordes (human and a few demons), there are mentions about skaven.
Nothing is said about shades clans, beastmasters, small colonies...
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Deadsun »

Now what i am more interested in is the Black Arks. These are what most of the cities in Naggaroth were built from in the first place, as was Anlec most times it got re built. For me it is the Black arks which are the real heart of what Naggaroth was and how the druchii survived similar catastrophic set backs in the past.

As far as you have still got black arks there is a lot of potential for the dark elves and maybe for naggaroth as a setting. Potential stories for our own campaigns could be returning to reclaim lost items (im sure there are quite a lot of goodies left in ghrond) or capture beasts, seeklimng to reassert control over holy sites of the elf gods, the underway, particular druchi being banished there by Malekith or this being a place where rebellious dark elf nobles return to as a means of staking claim to their heritage and building up their strength. Either way it can still be a rich setting for gaming and campaigns depending upon how the end times concludes. For my own part im hoping that by some quirk of chaos that Malus will return (you never know he has been through a lot!), because if anyone is up to the task of rebuilding Naggaroth its this guy!
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Calisson »

Malus dies, and Spite dies too. They won't come back.
Kouran & Tullaris die.
Morathi is seized by Slaanesh, she might seduce him and survive that but it is doubtful. Sulephet dies.
Lokhir seems to die.


Malekith survives with tremendous changes. Seraphon, oddly, survives too despite horrible wounds.
Hellebron lost her personal COB but survives otherwise unchanged, like Shadowblade.
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Haagrum »

Calisson wrote:
Lokhir seems to die.


Actually, the fluff seems to indicate that he survives, at least until Ulthuan sinks. The last mention of him is of his followers pulling him to safety after taking a spectral arrow in the back.

If he survives, it's not in Athel Loren.
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by flatworldsedge »

Especially as it mostly seems I'll be fighting Beastmen and CoW (common, personal opponent, and main choice of those at local GW), I think I'll go with new fluff around a resistance, nomadic in the ruined Naggaroth. Makes sense for a 2,000 pt Shade/Wood Elf force.

Really helpful to have the sketch of what's going on there. Couldn't justify getting both WE army book and ET: Khaine, and chose the former, so appreciate the briefing.
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Clockwork »

flatworldsedge wrote:Especially as it mostly seems I'll be fighting Beastmen and CoW (common, personal opponent, and main choice of those at local GW), I think I'll go with new fluff around a resistance, nomadic in the ruined Naggaroth. Makes sense for a 2,000 pt Shade/Wood Elf force.

Really helpful to have the sketch of what's going on there. Couldn't justify getting both WE army book and ET: Khaine, and chose the former, so appreciate the briefing.


That's a really cool theme!
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by direweasel »

Man none of that appeals to me at all. I think my personal fluff world is going to pretend none of that happened. I like the Dark Elves being in Naggaroth. It fits their personalities. Either that, or GW needs to make an Old World Underdark and send them down there to live with the arachnids or something.
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by flatworldsedge »

direweasel wrote:Man none of that appeals to me at all. I think my personal fluff world is going to pretend none of that happened. I like the Dark Elves being in Naggaroth.


You know - in many ways that is my favoured option...
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by direweasel »

My army's fluff story is not based on any particular land, we are from the Black Ark "Apocalypse", and we are drow, hence "Apocalypse Drow". But we still put in at port in Naggaroth, no matter what GW thinks. :)
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Deadsun »

Well having now finally read the rest (thank you for the strange soft back edition!) I can see the route for the future a bit clearer.

It was a shame to see the demise of Malus, but was really good how this fitted into his story line as written in his books, and i assume there are a fair few adventures as yet unwritten up to this point.

Naggaroth may be abandoned by malekith, but i did not see it outright indicated that Hasr Ganeth had been entirely abandoned by Hellebron's Khainites, only that they did turn up to try and steal the widowmaker but failed. After that i can't recall reading that they did not return there or that every dark elf had left the city.

Other than Lokhirs tower, the black arks were barely mentioned in the story so may be at large on the high seas, or even taking refuge on the eastern coast of the new world. if i was on ulthuan as it started to sink then I would be jumping on the first ship i could, rather than wait for some asrai upstart to lead my through the world roots!

The strength of the chaos forces remaining in what was left of naggaroth is likwise not discussed at length. It could be assumed that without many dark elves to face they fell into attacking each other, continued south towards lustria, or have returned to Archaons side to attack the old world. they certainly do not have a leader of the stature of valkyra anymore to hold it together.

I would say that Naggoroth still makes a pretty good setting for personal empire building for enterprising Dreadlords, even if it is reduced to a deamon haunted ruin of what it was. It should be noted that that was pretty much how it was in the days before Druchii refugees were driven from ulthuan after the sundering and these were probably in a worse shape than our armies as they stand. What is more we know from the Wood elf book that the world roots reach as far as Ghrond so these cold and distant shores should still be accessible to any expedition wanting to head there.

If anything the changes in background, the loss of named cities and characters, give a lot of space for our individual story telling and campaigns. Im thinking that if you are part of a gaming group with a lot of chaos players, then this could be
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by flatworldsedge »

Deadsun wrote:...shame to see the demise of Malus, but was really good how this fitted into his story line as written in his books, and i assume there are a fair few adventures as yet unwritten up to this point.

...

The strength of the chaos forces remaining in what was left of naggaroth is likwise not discussed at length. It could be assumed that without many dark elves to face they fell into attacking each other, continued south towards lustria, or have returned to Archaons side to attack the old world. they certainly do not have a leader of the stature of valkyra anymore to hold it together.

I would say that Naggoroth still makes a pretty good setting for personal empire building for enterprising Dreadlords, even if it is reduced to a deamon haunted ruin of what it was. It should be noted that that was pretty much how it was in the days before Druchii refugees were driven from ulthuan after the sundering and these were probably in a worse shape than our armies as they stand. What is more we know from the Wood elf book that the world roots reach as far as Ghrond so these cold and distant shores should still be accessible to any expedition wanting to head there.

If anything the changes in background, the loss of named cities and characters, give a lot of space for our individual story telling and campaigns. Im thinking that if you are part of a gaming group with a lot of chaos players, then this could be


On the Malus point, it does make reading it feel kind of pointless to me... unless there's a twist that brings him back to life. It's silly, I know, but that's just me. I can't enjoy The Knight's Tale properly now that Heath Ledger is dead. Not logical, but knowing "how it ends" takes the edge off it all.

Regarding Naggaroth, more and more I feel comfortable with the idea of Shades there. In the Malus books, heading up into the distant forests of the Wastes, it feels very livable so long as you're a compact, stealthy, ever moving force. Plenty of room to hide, in the mountains and underground sea, dragging surprised Bestigors into the shadows, then air-drying their haunches to make ham.
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Re: What's left in Naggaroth? (seeking spoilers)

Post by Deadsun »

Untill i read Khaine i was sure by some contrivance of chaos that there would have been a way back for Malus, of all dark elves he has some incredbile tenacity, but was shocked to see how final the description of his demise was.

This said Im still looking forward to reading the Malus book which is supposedly coming this next year. As i said before his book ties in very well to what was fortold in his existing books and a final book, but it does not go into suficient detail and Malus is (as he always has been in the game) depicted a secondary character. It will be great seeing all that in greater detail.

Perhaps the real shame regarding Malus is that there has been such a long time between his novels. For myself he is one of the few stand out characters from black library (i include in that the 40k and heresy novels too) and so much more could have been made out of his adventures and rise to rule. Unfortunately mediocre heresy and 40k novels (im sure there have been some good ones,but the majority just do not excite me) have taken presidence for the writers and that leaves us with the appearance that his story is now cut prematurely short.

On another note thinking of how the shades were described in the Malus Books it is not only probable but likely that many would remain in Naggaroth. They truely hate 'civilised' Druchii society, they are outcasts in a race of outcasts and have vey little fondness for Malekith. That they will have obeyed his order to entirely abandon Naggaroth is doubtful, as is travelling to Athel Loren to be closer to the epicentere of his rule (ok high elves probably feel this way too, but they have little choice about the exodus that was forced upon them). To me it makes sense that a good many of them would return to the forests they came from, and it is even possible that the loss of the great cities of Naggarorth is something that they may interpret as writing an ancient wrong, a vindication in itself.
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