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Dark Elf Corsair Ship 

If you would like to see one piece of Dark Elf Terrain built what would it be?
Poll ended at Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:18 pm
Watch Tower 14%  14%  [ 4 ]
Gate 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Temple of Khaine 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Black Ark Corsair Ship 46%  46%  [ 13 ]
Nobels House 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Altar of Khaine 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Harpy Nest 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Hydra Cave 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Public Baths 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Treasure Chamber 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Sacrificial Chamber 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Barracks 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Brothel 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Cold One/Dark Rider Stable 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Library 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Slaves Prison Camp 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Arena 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Fortress 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Beastmaster training ground 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 28

Dark Elf Corsair Ship 
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Corsair
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This is going to be a true masterpiece.
The details add an amazing life. :o

-=-=-

Be cautious about the direction in which the pennants fly. Sailing leads to counterintuitive directions compared to more usual land transportation, for which the direction of the pennant is just the opposite of the direction of speed.
For sailing, the pennant follows the relative wind, of which the greater part is the natural wind much more than the speed of the ship (medieval technologies allowed ships to go only at a fraction of the speed of the wind).

Your pennant is horizontal enough to indicate a rather strong relative wind.
The lateen rigging chosen for your ship allows the ship to progress partially against the wind, but certainly not opposite to the wind.

For example, if the wind was coming from West, the ship could not sail to West, but could at very best sail to North-North-West, with sails very tight to the starboard side, resulting in a very slow speed for the ship. The pennant would fly at 60 degrees from aft symmetry line towards starboard. There would be some list to starboard.
Other possibility with such strong wind coming from West, the ship would be at best speed heading North, with sails more open, 45 degrees to starboard. The resulting pennant would be nearly 75 degrees to starboard and the ship would list significantly to starboard.
Still same West wind, but now the ship is heading East downwind, in that case the two sails would be wide open 60 degrees, one on each side. The pennant would be in the ship's axis, just opposite to what you have made. There would be no list, although this position is rather unstable and the ship could easily roll (especially with the weight of a kraken...).

The only way to have the ship heading against the wind, as you suggest with your pennant, would be a ship beached, with sails down. In that case, there would be no wave.

More on that issue below.

-=-=-

The kraken. Very good idea, well in the naval theme.
However, this is specifically a Druchii naval theme.
Druchii are not victims of kraken. We tame them.
Your kraken could therefore be a tamed one, attached (no pun intended) to that ship's force.
That could be represented by a beastmaster having an outside platform near the kraken, and the kraken's tentacles positioned in places obviously designed to hold it. The beastmaster would have a dominant, albeit relaxed position regarding the kraken, not a dramatic position as you would expect if the kraken was to be fought.
Ideally, the kraken would be set parallel to the ship, its tentacles gently patting the ship in a similar way that an elephant would take another's elephant's tail with its trunk, in order to follow it without giving a thought.

-=-=-

The anchor…
No way!
1. Anchors are at the front of the ship, never at the aft. That allows the ship to keep facing the wind while lifting anchor.
2. You cannot have the ship at anchor when the small waves indicate that the ship is in motion.

Conclusion: remove that chain.
Note that oars are not necessary if the wind is strong enough or if there is no necessity to speed.

-=-=-

Now, back to the global attitude of the ship, its mast, its list, its pennant, and the kraken.

Your ship is sailing in the open, not very fast as indicated by the gentle wave.
It is positioned flat, no list, which is rather odd for a sailing ship.
This would be consistent with a moderate wind coming from the aft.
Oars are inside, which indicate that the slow speed the ship is making is considered sufficient for not using the slave's workforce.
A kraken is coming alongside, which is consistent with the idea of a slower speed than the ship is capable.

That scenery could depict a small expeditionary force transported inside the ship (100 elves max, maybe 5 dark steeds, no cold one), regrouping with its kraken as they come in sight of the coast they are preparing to raid.
The title could be “land in sight, prepare for battle”.

The sails could be then wide open, one on each side (in order to balance the weight).
The pennants would be flowing forwards, and would indicate a weak wind, i.e. pointing much more downwards than at present.

-=-=-

I hope my explanations were clear. I had insomnia at 5 in the morning, that gave me some time to type this post.

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Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:06 am
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Thanks for the comments Calisson, some great stuff to think about!

Quote:
Be cautious about the direction in which the pennants fly.


I'm glad you pointed this out - my aim is to replicate the illustration of the ship and looking now I realise I have put my mast flags in the wrong direction :( so I will have to rework this.

Quote:
The kraken. Very good idea, well in the naval theme.
However, this is specifically a Druchii naval theme.
Druchii are not victims of kraken. We tame them.....


I had not thought of this - just thought that I had these cool bits left over and this would be a great place to use them to add some character to the piece. I was not leading to the ship being attacked, adding a beast master might be a nice touch as if just about to catch a new prize...

Quote:
Conclusion: remove that chain.


bugger I wish you had commented earlier on this, going off the illustration its pictured at the rear and now I have glued it all in place and cut the window for it. It will be quite a mission to remove it - I will think further on this.

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Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:40 pm
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It looks amazing.
As for the anker situation... you could always attach a corpse to it. Or a bucket with a washing stick to downgrade the chain to a very different kind of utility.

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Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:10 pm
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STEP 21: RIGGING

More challenges with this as I try to make the ship breakdown for storage/transport. Along with the masts I don't want the rigging fixed to the ship. Looking at other model ships most of the rigging is done with thread or light weight rope tied under tension - I don't think this will work so I have decided to use copper wire. I used this on my dwarf balloon some time ago and it looked quite good so I am hoping it will work on this scale.

I start by twisting lengths together using the drill - it works quite well to get an even shape to it.

Image

A bit hard to make out in the photos but I make a length for each part of the rigging

Image

I found these cool hooks in my bits box and decided to use these to hook the wire to the masts

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I then poked holes in the wire so I could fit the horizontal straps through

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I then drilled holes in some pine beading and glued them in place at the other end and magnetised the ship and base section

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I then decorated the sides with some bits. The whole rigging section can now be clipped on and off via the magnetised sections - quite cool.

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I made smaller versions for the single ropes

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Rigging complete - the wire looks a bit loose in some places, its a bit hard to control the flow of the wire and it does not look like it is under tension in some places, but I think it will look god once all painted up.

Image

Image

Next step the sails - gulp!

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Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:01 am
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Missed two updates whilst I was away for a couple of days. Project has jumped forward nicely.

Great work.

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Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:43 pm
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This is fantastic work. Love the rigging in particular! The hull structure, cargo hall lid and Dark Elven details are all very fitting. Oerfect so far.

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Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:15 am
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Rigging looks great, so many neat details all over the ship.


Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:10 pm
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Simply amazing so far. I really like the break down. You make it look so easy and I am sure its got a lot of people getting ready for copycat projects (though not likely on such a scale). The finished product is really going to be something.


Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:52 am
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I hate sails :(

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Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:30 pm
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Cultofkhaine wrote:
I hate sails :(
I can understand that.
The thinness, texture, weigh, general look,... everything departs from usual modelling techniques.
The obvious way to achieve something realistic would be to use actual fabric, not green stuff. And not paint them but dye them.
If that does not work for you, how open are you to the idea of having sails in an anchorage position, not wide open as when sailing? It could ease your torment.

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Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:27 pm
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Woow, great work. I wish I own ship like this :) (or be able to made one )

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Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:53 pm
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Quote:
how open are you to the idea of having sails in an anchorage position, not wide open as when sailing? It could ease your torment.


Im struggling along - I made the big sail and spent a few hours sewing the sail fabric to some of the beams, got to the last one the thicker of the beams and the damn thing would not bend. I had to start again 4-5hrs work down the drain.

I'm also getting depressed now cause I don't think I will have this finished for Armies on parade this year - oh well always next year.

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Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:24 pm
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Keep trucking away, we got faith. It is looking incredible as it stands. but keep going cult.

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Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:00 am
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Cultofkhaine wrote:
Quote:
how open are you to the idea of having sails in an anchorage position, not wide open as when sailing? It could ease your torment.


Im struggling along - I made the big sail and spent a few hours sewing the sail fabric to some of the beams, got to the last one the thicker of the beams and the damn thing would not bend. I had to start again 4-5hrs work down the drain.

I'm also getting depressed now cause I don't think I will have this finished for Armies on parade this year - oh well always next year.


Can you enlist some help maybe with painting or fabrication of the sails?

Would be a real shame if you can't get it finished.

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Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:57 am
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Keep going! It'd be a shame to miss the boat (har har) for the parade so I hope you find a solution but certainly don't want to see the project become a travail for you.


Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:39 pm
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Still plodding along with this and working on the sails, it has come to a halt for a few days as I have been away bush. I have rebuilt a couple of test versions and refined how I am going to make them now. Originally I wanted to bend the support sections, but I have been struggling to keep them under tension - the balsa just wants to stay straight and in doing so is warping the sails.

I have resigned myself to the fact that it is just going to be easier to keep them straight. Stitching them is taking quite a bit of time (all done by hand) and I have also decided to paint them at the same time as part of the process. The next step I post later this week will hopefully be the first one complete.

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Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:43 am
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I don't know if you know this but you can bend the balsa or even bamboo skewers using boiling water. You can soak them in boiling water then bend the to the desired shape, clamping them into position with a jig or mold. Keep the heat in it and you should be ok to bend them. Let them cool slowly and dry slowly. It might be worth giving a go.

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Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:15 am
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Thanks Duffman327 I have thought about experimenting with this and thought it might be possible - but don't have the patience to play with it for that long - perhaps another project down the line.

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Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:03 am
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This project ust keeps getting better, absolutely love it.

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Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:17 pm
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Stand tall against the howling winds, Capt. Kult!
And keep up the good work!
I'm in awe in front of your accomplishments!

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Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:27 pm
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STEP 22: LARGE SAIL

Finally another update - this stage has just about killed me.

I started the first large sail and got quite a few hours work into it before realising I could not do what I was trying to achieve.

I was trying to bend the balsa rod and sticking it to the fabric, but by the time I stitched it all it would not keep its shape and the rods would just go straight again, also the fabric was warping into odd shapes under the tension. I also realised that I should probably paint it before stitching it. Here is the first prototype below before I get into the step instructions.

Image

Now onto version two.

I started by cutting the two main poles from pine dowel and the smaller ones from balsa dowel

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Next I wired them together.

Image

I then folded them out on the fabric so I could get the span of the sail and drew out the pattern to cut. I made sure that the span between each rod was larger then needed so that when they are pulled closer together the sails will bulge.

Image

Once I had the pattern drawn out I then ran a small line of super glue all the way around the cut line so that when I cut the fabric the material would not fray. I then cut the shape out and super glued the wired rods to the fabric one at a time making sure they were equal distance apart.

Image

I then painted the rods a timber/wood grain colour, then the sails - looking back now it would be easier to paint the sails first then the timber rods as I had to go back and touch up the rods after painting the sails.

Image

It was hard to get an even coat of acrylic paint on the sails, I think next time I would also look at dying the fabric rather than painting or just getting the colour fabric I need. In the end I painted it a dark blue colour (bit hard to see from the photos) also the fabric was quite a stiff rigid fabric (I think it is used for lining when stitching) I wanted something that would hold its shape well.

Once all the painting was done I sealed it all with a matt spray and stitched around each sail.

Image

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I then drilled holes through the other ends of the rod, spun some more wire together and fed it through puling the rods closer together and causing the sails to bulge.

Image

I then added some decorative bits to the end of the rods and fixed the sail to the main mast using a nail as a pin - so it could be removed as needed.

This was the exciting part, as soon as the sail was on the ship it just came to life!

Image

The bulge in the sails just looks great! I'm very happy now how it has come together

Image

Image

A few more touch-ups to go here and there, but I will get back to these later.

Now on to the small sail.

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Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:41 pm
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Brilliant!!!!!
The sail really resembles a Dragon's wing!
Ominous and awesome!

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Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:51 pm
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The sail is perfect!

Now, on a practical, nautical point of view, the point where the sail is attached to the mast needs careful consideration.
This kind of rigging must allow the sail to move from port to starboard when the wind dictates it.
In order to achieve that, the sail would have to be folded completely on its boom at its top. Then the boom would have to be inclined vertically, with the point of the triangle down. Then the whole sail would be passed on the other side. Then it would be inclined back to sailing position, and unfolded.
This maneuver necessitates that the point where the sail's boom is attached to the mast allows sufficient space for the fore part of the boom to rotate and not hit the deck.
I.e. the lenght between the fore part of the boom and the point where the boom is attached to the mast must not be longer than the height of the mast from deck to attachment point.

Hoping to be clear in my explanations.
Of course, the same will be necessary for the second sail.

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Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:12 pm
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Lovely work again. Shape of the sail is very nicely done and fits the rest of the ship perfectly.

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Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:45 pm
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Calisson wrote:
The sail is perfect!

Now, on a practical, nautical point of view, the point where the sail is attached to the mast needs careful consideration.
This kind of rigging must allow the sail to move from port to starboard when the wind dictates it.
In order to achieve that, the sail would have to be folded completely on its boom at its top. Then the boom would have to be inclined vertically, with the point of the triangle down. Then the whole sail would be passed on the other side. Then it would be inclined back to sailing position, and unfolded.
This maneuver necessitates that the point where the sail's boom is attached to the mast allows sufficient space for the fore part of the boom to rotate and not hit the deck.
I.e. the lenght between the fore part of the boom and the point where the boom is attached to the mast must not be longer than the height of the mast from deck to attachment point.

Hoping to be clear in my explanations.
Of course, the same will be necessary for the second sail.


All perfectly true in a physics oriented world. Unless the ship is influenced by dark sorceries, in which case none of the above needs to apply :D

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Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:24 pm
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