Hydra unit strength for the purpose of Fear
Moderator: The Dread Knights
Hydra unit strength for the purpose of Fear
Question that came up in a game last night - when determining whether a Fear causing unit outnumbers the enemy, do you consider only those models that cause Fear, or the whole unit?
The specific case was a War Hydra unit attacking a pair of Minotaurs. Two minotaurs is unit strength 6. The War Hydra by itself is unit strength 6 (so only equal, not outnumbering) but it is also accompanied by a pair of non-Fear causing handlers, bringing its unit strength up to 8. So does the Hydra unit as a whole out as an outnumbering Fear-causing enemy?
The specific case was a War Hydra unit attacking a pair of Minotaurs. Two minotaurs is unit strength 6. The War Hydra by itself is unit strength 6 (so only equal, not outnumbering) but it is also accompanied by a pair of non-Fear causing handlers, bringing its unit strength up to 8. So does the Hydra unit as a whole out as an outnumbering Fear-causing enemy?
- Silverheimdall
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You don't understand.
The Hydra causes Terror, the Hydra is US5
The Beastmasters do not cause Fear or Terror, they are US1 each.
You only count the models that cause fear, in this case, the Unite strength is 7 but only US5 of it causes Terror, they don't suddenly become US7 Terror - that's not what the rules say.
Same when you have a character with Terror join a unit - they do not cause terror, you only cause terror if your hero gets in base contact with the enemy or they come within 6" of you - the rest of the unit is immune but they do not, themselves, count their US for Terror/Fear purposes.
The Hydra causes Terror, the Hydra is US5
The Beastmasters do not cause Fear or Terror, they are US1 each.
You only count the models that cause fear, in this case, the Unite strength is 7 but only US5 of it causes Terror, they don't suddenly become US7 Terror - that's not what the rules say.
Same when you have a character with Terror join a unit - they do not cause terror, you only cause terror if your hero gets in base contact with the enemy or they come within 6" of you - the rest of the unit is immune but they do not, themselves, count their US for Terror/Fear purposes.
I do in fact understand.
Everything you say mostly makes sense.
However the point being argued is not, does the whole unit cause terror. That is clearly defined in the book. You didn't need to repeat it.
The only question is if the unit strength is counted, when the fear terror IS in effect.
The book says count the whole unit and not models.
Your telling me models only. But arn't pointing out any page or faq like i asked that proves that.
pg79
also says that a character riding a mount that causes terror/fear also causes fear/terror.
The handlers are not really riding it but there's nothing in the book I've found yet that actually says you don't count their unit strength for fear/terror.
Where did your answer come from?
Everything you say mostly makes sense.
However the point being argued is not, does the whole unit cause terror. That is clearly defined in the book. You didn't need to repeat it.
The only question is if the unit strength is counted, when the fear terror IS in effect.
The book says count the whole unit and not models.
Your telling me models only. But arn't pointing out any page or faq like i asked that proves that.
pg79
also says that a character riding a mount that causes terror/fear also causes fear/terror.
The handlers are not really riding it but there's nothing in the book I've found yet that actually says you don't count their unit strength for fear/terror.
Where did your answer come from?
- Silverheimdall
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- Silverheimdall
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- Silverheimdall
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- Silverheimdall
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- Azure
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I've always played as Silver as have every time it came up in a tournament. I'll find my 6th ed to look for some evidence.
-Rex
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So it sound like there isn't a clear answer. I went through the rulebook very carefully after the game this came up in, and to me the wording seems ambiguous. I had hoped somebody could point me to a FAQ or something.
BTW, I have my copy of the DE army book in front of me, and it clearly has Hydras at 6 wounds. Has this been reduced in the new version?
BTW, I have my copy of the DE army book in front of me, and it clearly has Hydras at 6 wounds. Has this been reduced in the new version?
- Mordru
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If the item conveys fear or terror to the character and his unit then you count the whole unit. Example Dread Banner. If a character on cold one joins a unit of BG the whole unit does not cause fear. The character conveys immunity to fear (pointless for BG) only.
If two or more units in a combat cause fear their unit strength is determined by counting both units.
Hydra causes terror/fear beastmasters do not but it could have been written more clearly. Beastmasters get immune to terror/fear from the hydra and that is all.
If two or more units in a combat cause fear their unit strength is determined by counting both units.
Hydra causes terror/fear beastmasters do not but it could have been written more clearly. Beastmasters get immune to terror/fear from the hydra and that is all.
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- Linda lobsta defenda
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It has been answered back in the chronicles for 6th edition, and it was answered that you only count the ones that actually cause fear/terror. No reason not to follow that ruling now.
General FAQ:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=2504
FAQ about rules:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?p=547809
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=2504
FAQ about rules:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?p=547809
Allright after linda pointed out the rule was faq'd. I went looking for it.
http://www.geocities.com/mi_whplayers/f ... ch_faq.txt
(near the middle)
The question was answered saying you only count the models that cause fear.
However two questions later it also says. That a character in a unit that causes fear does not make that unit immune to fear.
In 7th edition it does.
So to me this proves that defaulting to a 6th edition faq might give an answer. But doesn't mean it's right.
http://www.geocities.com/mi_whplayers/f ... ch_faq.txt
(near the middle)
The question was answered saying you only count the models that cause fear.
However two questions later it also says. That a character in a unit that causes fear does not make that unit immune to fear.
In 7th edition it does.
So to me this proves that defaulting to a 6th edition faq might give an answer. But doesn't mean it's right.
- Azure
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It does mean its right when the wording has not changed at all and we have had no reason to think it is wrong. We have no FAQ and no wording change to think that a single hero with the terror mask gives an entire unit terror.
-Rex
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- Mordru
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Azure you are correct. Especially since we know how items that give effects to units joined by their bearers work. It will specifically say so in the the item rules. Example... Gem of Nightmares.
Beastmaster do not cause terror or fear. They are form a unit with a monster that causes terror they get the immunity benefit and that is all.
Beastmaster do not cause terror or fear. They are form a unit with a monster that causes terror they get the immunity benefit and that is all.
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- Furiouscado
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Nurik0 wrote:However two questions later it also says. That a character in a unit that causes fear does not make that unit immune to fear.
In 7th edition it does.
Well there you have it. It was changed in 7th edition and re-worded. Just because a rule in an old FAQ has been changed in a new edition doesn't mean the one 2 questions earlier has been.