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Mr_styrofoam
Dark Rider
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:43 am Posts: 128
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There are two ways to win...which do you think is better?
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:27 am |
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Khel
Angel of Darkness
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:06 am Posts: 3455 Location: Australia
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I think a bit of both. While good maneuvering and clever tactics can win you a game, without a bit of luck, you'll never win a game at all.
While luck is needed for all the rolls you need to perform in warhammer, good maneuvering, tactics etc; can cover you and so less luck is needed.
_________________ Saldrimek Xenan - WS6 / S4 / T3 / D5 / I3
Equipment: Executioners Axe (Rune of Beastslaying - Heroic Killing Blow), 2 Scimitars (Rune of Speed - Always Strike First), Dagger, Rune Branded Leather Armour, Executioner Helm, Fine Set of Throwing Knives (x4)
Inventory: Amulet of Darkness, Poison Vials x7, Deadly Poison Vials x8
Mount: Dark Steed
Gold: 163
Skills: Ambidexterity, Frenzy, Two Weapon Fighting, Ride
Class: Khainite
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:42 am |
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Mr. anderson
Dark Illusionist
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:25 am Posts: 2270 Location: Dating a Witch elf...
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Basically I agree with Khel, but I tend towards saying that being a good general is a little more important than being a lucky one. This is because you can always rely on being a good general (unless you're hungover and tired and have a blackout... but then chances are you won't be playing warhammer anyway). You can never rely in being lucky, on the other hand and as Khel said - to an extent you can make up for bad luck with your skill (otherwise you may as well play poker wearing masks... that'd be about the same).
On the other hand, you can always be caught off guard by bad luck, no matter how good a general you are. I remember how I beat the tactically most skilled DE player in my store because his anointed didn't kill a single one of my cold one knights, broke and allowed my five knights to charge his unit of ten cold one knights and wipe them out...
HUZZAH!
_________________ When I think of something witty, I shall put it here.
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:56 am |
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Lexy
Assassin
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:43 am Posts: 563 Location: Den Haag
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I guess you have never been to the second day of a GT?
Sometimes it's even nice to notice the freshness of the bit of air surrounding you
On topic: a good general is better to be in the long run, as the lucky player will even out anyway
_________________ Never know what to do next, you might surprise yourself
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:59 am |
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Western elf
Corsair
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:35 am Posts: 84
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Tricky question. There's no such thing as luck, but I don't approve of calling people 'good generals.'
Still, the best you can do is play well and hope the dice don't mess things up. It's a very random game, and there's nothing to be done about that.
_________________ your western homes are locked forever
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:34 am |
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Emperorpenguin
Cold One Knight
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:28 am Posts: 248
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Well there is that famous quote by Napoleon Bonaparte about lucky generals
Both ideally. Being good is more rewarding but being lucky often tips things
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:09 am |
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Master of arneim
Malekith's Personal Guard
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:46 am Posts: 840 Location: Testing the new jacuzZi with Morathi
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A good general is able to reduce the luck into a little corner. It's still there, but for a minimal part and when jinx hits, only sometimes it can change the wave of the battle.
Then it's better to be known as a brilliant but unlucky tactician than a blessed by luck with no skills.
_________________ Master of Arneim, proud ruler of the cult of the thousand draichs, because bigger is better.
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:21 am |
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Tyury
Trainee Warrior
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:09 am Posts: 37
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you can lose with a good tactic but you'll never win with a bad one.
luck is needed for sure, but being skilled is more importent.
_________________you can lose with a good tactic but you'll never win with a bad one.
My Brute will beat yours!
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:33 am |
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Arquinsiel
Shadowdancer
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:16 pm Posts: 4987 Location: The deepest pits in a hell of my own making
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I've had games where every dice roll I made resulted in below average results and my opponant rolled normally to well. In all cases I've managed to swing a draw thanks to knowing how to use the units I had chosen. If I'd have some good luck instead of basic know-how I would probably have won those battles by a significant margin.
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:52 pm |
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King porky
Shade
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:09 pm Posts: 106 Location: in a galxy far far away
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You can beat a good player but you can't beat a lucky one. 
_________________ (\__/)
(O.o )
(> < ) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
3/4 of games are won by deathstars. Copy this into your signature if you still use real tactics to win.
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:24 pm |
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Slortor
Malekith's Personal Guard
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:22 pm Posts: 924 Location: Rallying Team Druchii.net
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same as khel really but i voted for luck - because as has been said before if your dice shaft you then you lose the game - regardless of how well you play.
So luck gets the vote - but id probably prefer to be a good player than a lucky one
_________________Name: Khalia D'Vaarko (meaning: Khalia, property of Vaarko)
Age: 210
Height/Weight: 5'6", 8 stone
Other: no distinguishing features, barring the brand of a great house left wrist.
Class: Mage
Equipment: Robes, Dagger, Staff
Skills: Power of Ulgu, Power of Chamon
Stats: Ws3, S3, T3, D4, I5
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:35 pm |
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Mandavar bloodlust
Warrior
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:24 pm Posts: 65 Location: Testing the new RXBow at the shooting Range.
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A lucky general can become a good general but a good general not a lucky one otherwise he would be allready a lucky general. 
_________________ - Its not allowed to feed your Cold One with more than three High Elfes per day, (remember all the itzy bitzy things on their clothes, hair, and skin) to avoid sickness of your Cold One.
- Druchii Cold One Field Manual Chapter 3, Page 73.
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:28 pm |
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Azure
Rumour Lord of Doom
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 5:11 pm Posts: 3483 Location: Har Ganeth (Santa Cruz, CA
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"Luck is the residue of design"
I believe luck matters to an extent but for the most part great generalship > luck.
-Rex
_________________Moderator - Druchii Tactics
Free Porn!
Become my padawan! This game is fun! http://azuredruchii.mybrute.com
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:12 pm |
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Lac.desariel
Executioner
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:33 am Posts: 195
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Personally I belive to an extent you can make your own luck with good judgement calls and tatics
a few examples Ive used might be,
CoK or CoC need to charge next turn a unit maybe locked in combat, either you place it ready to charge or you place it 3 " away to charge, next turn you can rely on luck if you call it that you dont fail that stupid test or you roll and pass or fail you hit your target.
witch elfs look to charge chaos warriors, with luck a front of 5 with F/C will push 16 poisoned attacks and warriors will fail saves you could and way well win combat. if luck is not on your side you got a pile of dead witch elfs.
other option might be line up the charge in the flank with CoK you are looking at a much better chance of not only breaking the unit but not having any attacks back at you due to the 'chances'
another example has happened to me,
I have a block of Longbeards at 20 strong static res of 6. front charge by 9 brets, after all thier high strenght attacks they still lose combat and break an unlucky general? or a lucky dwarf player? yet the same block of dwarfs is hit in the flank by 2 charriots and 1 in the front (coldone carriots) im looking at snake eyes or flee due to fear, lucky or good general?
What in trying to say is at times lady luck will smile and at times she frowns but if due to tatics and good generalship you make her smile when she can frown lady luck has little say.
ever rolled killing blow on those war machine crews from your executioners? did you need KB? no but lady luck said you got it..
hope you see where im coming from.
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:42 pm |
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Rabidnid
Malekith's Best Friend
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:31 pm Posts: 3023 Location: The Tower of Dust
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Read Sig
_________________ "Luck is the residue of design"
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:45 pm |
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Gibious
Highborn
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:20 am Posts: 609 Location: Here Obviously
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Im afraid no matter how skilful you are, those 1's and 6's can always appear at the wrong times. And without luck they be appearing too often.
"ok so my COC fails to kill anything and you destroy it in return?"
_________________ ...Well thats the end of my post
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:57 pm |
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Notts
Cold One Knight
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:48 pm Posts: 213
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In sports, to win a championship you have to be lucky and good.
so can I vote for both...?
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Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:19 am |
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Fr0
Trademaster
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 7:32 pm Posts: 3170 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Being better means you're more consistent, which is better than being lucky overall. Though if you're lucky enought to pass every test in the game, then you'll always win so it becomes a matter of your definition of better.
_________________Trading Forum
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Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:41 am |
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Lac.desariel
Executioner
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:33 am Posts: 195
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I agree 1 over 6's is not good.
If you need a 6 to do the job send in 3 charriots and you have your 6 on a bad roll.
to send in 3 charriots will take a a good general to possition his army in a way to set the trap a lucky general might stumble across that possition.
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Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:26 am |
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Desert icon
Assassin
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:33 pm Posts: 576 Location: Baking in the hot Summer sun
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Fortes fortuna adiuvat?
Hey, I say, if you have bad luck, you can blame your losses on luck. If you have bad skills, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Besides, luck is much more flashy.
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Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:18 pm |
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Weenth
Black Guard
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:47 pm Posts: 270
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For me - being good general over lucky definitly. I play warhammer for satisfaction of winning, but also - or even more - pleasure of the game itself. Massacred my buddy's WE last week, but don't feel like it was a good game - not that any of us played unfair; simply 90% of the outcome came from my great luck and his bad luck. It was very frustrating for him and unsatidfcationary for me, as none of us felt that this outcome had anything to do with our skills.
So a good game for me is where luck is more or less evened out. And then I would still have more satisfaction in winning if I had odds a bit against me.
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Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:37 pm |
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Scipio
Highborn
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:36 pm Posts: 674
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I would rather be lucky every day of the week!
If my dice are hot I am going to win no matter how bad of decisions I make.
That being said that kind of luck usually never happens so its better off having some skill and knowing the rules.
_________________ Anyone else find it kinda interesting that DE will not use gun powder because its unreliable but seem to have no problem using cold ones?
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Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:19 am |
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Bounce
Malekith's Best Friend
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:40 am Posts: 1004
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- A good general can win even when he is unlucky,
-If you rely on luck you will probably find you win 50% of your games.
No One can be 'lucky' as it always evens out in the long run.
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Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:44 am |
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Tich
Highborn
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:08 am Posts: 655 Location: The land of Oz
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Skill can be gained, luck can't so I'd rather start out lucky.
_________________ "I have this magic sword, it kills people when you stick it in them"
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Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:30 am |
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Lac.desariel
Executioner
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:33 am Posts: 195
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some one said something to me when we was talking about Probability
Adversity reveals your Genius while Good fortune conceals your incompotence
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Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:18 pm |
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