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Neccessities in an army list 
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Slave on the Altar

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:54 am
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Hi all, im new to this site. Overall Im new to fantasy, played 40k for about 12 yrs and got into fantasy last year. I was wondering what is considered by many to be definate musts as far as unit choices, characters, and wargear, for lists totaled to 2000, 2500, and 3000 pt lists. Let me know what you come up with, thanks.


Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:12 am
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Assassin
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Aren't there already like 20 other topics regarding this? Try the "Search" option at the top of the page next time! You should really also read the FAQ, up at the top menu bar, before you post again if you haven't already read it.

Well, to answer your question, it depends on who you ask! I assume you're talking about Dark Elves then (you didn't specify any army in particular)? I'm sure the general consensus here by most players is that Dark Riders are almost compulsory. They are just so versatile and useful that they can easily make up for their point cost if you use them correctly.

I can't give you any specifics other than what I'd personally go with, because there are simply too many options and ways of playing to say "I speak for everyone here!"


Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:49 am
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Noble

Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:40 pm
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I think it really depends on your playing style. The DE army book is incredibly versatile IMO, allowing you to build a variety of styles. You could for example build a gun line, a cavalry list, an extremely heavy magic list, or a beast list to name a few. All these armies play very differently and one may suit your playing style more than another.

You could also check out the army list section and see how other people build their own lists, maybe you will find some inspiration for your own.

And even though as stated above DR are almost compulsory in most lists, I am currently planning a list without any.


Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:36 am
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It is true that there is absolutely no must-have choice in our book (not even dark riders, for that matter). There are, however, certain elements an army list does need in order to be successful, even though the list of what is needed strongly varies depending on the style you choose to play - I suggest you give us some more ideas as to what kind of style appeals to you (defensive or offensive, infantry or cavalry, VP denial or actively destroying your opponent's army, magic heavy/shooting heavy, combat heavy etc.). Then we can give you some ideas as to what elements are definitely needed. For example an infantry list desperately does need higher numbers because it takes infantry longer to reach the opponent and thus they will suffer more from ranged attacks - magic and shooting mostly. In this case warriors present themselves as a convenient choice as they are cheap, a core choice and (for their point costs) excellent fighters, but there are other ways of making up for not having warriors.

You should also try the hall of fame in the tactics section - it is full of awesome ideas and suggestions (even though some of them are outdated because they are all back from the 6th edition).

HUZZAH!

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Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:48 am
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Corsair
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Well, that's what D.R.A.I.C.H. is for.
Check on top of the tactics forum.

The beauty of Dark Elves is that they are very balanced, offering game-playable units for mass combats, elite combats, monsters, mobility, shooting, magic.

On the weak side, we have little or none of the following: warmachines, horde units, fear-causing infantry, high endurance or heavily armored troops.

Be aware that even though many opposite styles do actually work well (i.e full magic or no magic, full cavalry or no cavalry, full shades or no shades, double hydra or 4 RBT, CoB or no CoB... and any combination), you must not conclude that anything will work.

It means that you need to carefully balance your army and play it wisely.

We don't build our army around our Lords, actually we don't have to build it around anything specifically. Nothing is must-have.
On the contrary, it is perfectly feasible to decide to ban such and such unit from our army and still build a game-winning army.

When you build your army, you can choose to emphasize on
- mass infantry
- elite infantry
- heavy cavalry or chariots
- extreme mobility with DR or harpies, possibly shades
- missiles
- fear/terror causing units
- magic
Pick up whichever three or more of the above that you like most, drop the others, it should work well if you know how to use them.

A good suggestion for a start would be to buy a little bit of each category, playing them together works fine as well:
- some mass infantry (maximum 11 pts per model)
- some elite infantry
- some fast skirmishers, DR or harpies
- some shooting
- some cavalry or chariot or hydra
- one dreadlors with whichever mount you like, possibly BSB
- two sorceresses
Then later on you'll decide what you like best, after c couple of games, and increase your army accordingly.
Cauldron or not is up to you, and it does not mean necessarily a mainly khainite army.

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Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:48 pm
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Noble
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personally i think that dark riders with rxb's and a musician are a must in every army as they fulfill so many roles and are very flexible (mage hunting, warmachine hunting, killing small units of archers/skirmishers, etc.) although harpies are also very good at some of these things and even cheaper!

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Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:26 pm
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The ONLY must have in a army for me is a unit that fly's. No matter what army I play I use a flying character or unit whatever it is. If the army doesn't have access to a unit I make sure I have a character that fly's.

Saying that I don't think it has to be a dragon or other uber-monster mount. Just a unit that can act as a rear guard or attack war machines and such.

So with dark elves I use a unit of Harpies or a noble on a Dark Pegasus.

And as with all army selection you have to pick units that play to your style or you will find that they don't accomplish a whole lot for you.


Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:27 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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The only 2 "musts" I admit are:

1) 2 repeater bolt thrower: easy to use and effective vs quite any army, then they are 200 points round :-)

2) one sorceress with 2 scrolls: it's not in this order that you need her, but I mean getting at least 2 scrolls and at least 3 dispel dice (but more than 3 are better).

These are quite always in my lists.

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Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:19 pm
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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My "must haves" are:

1) Dark Riders with musician -- 2 or 3 units of 5 models, sometimes with repeater crossbows, sometimes without

2) Harpies -- 1 or 2 units of 5 models

Everything else can and probably will change from game to game, but these choices are constants.

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Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:41 pm
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Shade

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The first things I put in any list..
#1- 2 units of five dark riders
#2-2 units of five harpies
#3- at least 15 crossbowmen (This is a lie, while I do really like this unit, I've managed without it. I will not however take a list that cannot shoot at least 30 bolts a turn )
#4- A BSB

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Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:08 am
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Slave (off the Altar)
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Must have:

1. at least 5 Dark riders, mus,r.c

2. at least 5 Harpies

3. Ring of Hotek. Even in a magic heavy list, I use it on one flank, mages on the other. Just the look on the opponents face when he miscasts on a double 6 is totaly worth it. Plus nobady expects the spanish inquisition or the Ring in a magic heavy army, just be carefull.

4. One (and one only) Hydra. Never seem to find the need or points for RBTs anymore with the new book (and new VC and deamons).

5. Couldron of Blood. 90% of my lists have it, always worth it if I dont bring a dragon (which I rarely do).


Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:32 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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must have for me the cauldron as it can catch people out with some tricks.

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Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:15 pm
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Beastmaster
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I rarely play without an Assassin. They rule the mind game! They are also very reasonably prized and avoid the abundant hochland-like effects that frequent the whfb scene nowadays.

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Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:45 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)
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Assassins "rule the mind game" even if you dont take one. The paranoia of a hidden assassin possibly being in every infantry unit does wonders to make opponents overtly carefull. The only real drawback I see is the spreading of "immune to KB/poison" items in late army books.


Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:06 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Must have:

Ring of Hotek

2 Units of 5 Dark Riders, crossbows.

The rest is optional.

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Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:02 pm
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Slave (off the Altar)

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:25 pm
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well.....if u play heavy magic gunline u dont need dark riders :P.....but if u go standard fast hard hittinf army then all core DRs and harpies.....and in that case some COKs do very well =))


Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:22 pm
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Slave on the Altar
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I usually must have a Sorceress in the form of a scroll caddy,
and some shooting in the form of 10 rxb men or 2x 5 DR's. Everything else is optional.

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Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:29 pm
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Lord of the Dragon Caves
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Balkanian Druchii wrote:
well.....if u play heavy magic gunline u dont need dark riders :P.....


If you play a magic-heavy-gunline then Dark Riders are actually CRITICAL. Without harassing troops, an enemy cavalry can be charging your line on turn 2 -- meaning you've had only one or two shooting and magic phases before the enemy is on you. Dark Riders slow down the enemy, giving your shooting and magic more time to take effect.

Bottom line -- I think you should take Dark Riders no matter what the overall build of your army is.

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Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:19 pm
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Corsair
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Having neither DR nor harpies would be very strange, nearly un-druchii.
I doubt there is any such list in the "Army List" forum since 7th ed AB was released.
Definitely get either or both.

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Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:00 pm
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Looks like I was right-on in my first post!

As Calisson said, you can use either Dark Riders or Harpies, but I am of the opinion that Dark Riders are better because they can shoot!

Of course if you really want warmachine hunters, there is no better substitute for Harpies, but Dark Riders have so many more uses it should be a crime.


Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:03 pm
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