Druchii Guerilla - Dark Rider Death Star - 2k

[Lamekh]

Sorceress - lvl2, Lifetaker, Tome, Dark Steed - 192
Sorceress - lvl2, Focus Familiar, Scroll, Dark Steed - 197
Sorceress - lvl2, Darkstar Cloak, Scroll, Dark Steed - 197

5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55

5 Shades - Great Weapons -261 + Assassin - xhw, Cloak, Stars, Manebane
5 Shades - Great Weapons, Bloodshade - 259 + Assassin - xhw, Stars, Manebane
5 Shades - Great Weapons, Bloodshade - 259 + Assassin - xhw, Stars, Manebane

1 War Hydra - 175
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Points: 1992 PD: 9 + 3 PoD DD: 5 + 2 Scrolls Kill Points: 17

Any thoughts comments welcome

[Marauder mitch2]

Cloak is a magic item so only once per army but looks a ok list. Shame i think a Hydra would also fit in as well.

[Lamekh]

Thanks a lot forgot about the cloak Edited List....

[Lamekh]

Another idea:

Master - AoD, CD, Dark Steed - 142
Master - Caledor's Bane, ES, HA, SDC, Dark Steed - 150
Master - RoH, Deathpiercer, HA, shield, SDC, Dark Steed - 152
Shadowblade - 300

5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55

6 Shades - GW, LA - 265 + Assassin - xhw, Stars, Manebane
6 Shades - GW, LA - 265 + Assassin - xhw, Stars, Manebane
6 Shades - GW, LA - 265 + Assassin - xhw, Stars, Manebane
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Points: 2000 PD:2 DD:2 + Ring Kill points: 16

[Calisson]

Both lists look interesting, especially fluff-wise. They are obviously designed for a high maneuvrability.

Both list can work only with a really heavy cover, lots of forests in order to hide your many shades and let your hydra advance. An alternative is to shelter your shades inside buildings, they'll be almost impossible to dislodge in melee. Still vulnerable to magic or template weapons. and you loose the benefit of the maneuvrability, and you cannot charge from there.

With the first list, you can have a very nice magic phase and a good missile phase. But you'll suffer a lot during opponent's missile phase and in melee: hydra is great but will not do everything and shades & assassin have no SCR nor armor.

With the second list, you get the same good missile phase and that is all. You'll suffer more from the opponent's magic phase and more in melee (no more hydra). On the other hand, the fluff is more consistent. It should work better in smaller games, around 1k, but in 2000+ games, I don't see you winning with only 4 assassins as hammers.

Overall the first list look more efficient with the magic wave it can release.

[Lamekh]

Sorry, but I have to disagree, the second list offers more melee options than the first, sure the Hydra is good, but I have 3 Masters who'll be dishing out some pain, not to mention shadowblade.
As for casters....I'll be hunting them on turn two (with everything) so he should be careful not to lose one or two casters early on (even suicide charging a unit or two)



Dreadlord - Shield,lance,SDC,AoES,3xShard,Dark Steed - 253
Master - BSB,HA,shield,lance,SDC,Ring of Darkness,Dark Steed - 171
Master - HA,shield,lance,SDC,Gem, RoH,Dark Steed - 156

5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
20 Dark Riders - xbows, FC - 475
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55

2 War Hydrae - 350

Death Hag - CoB - 200 (hiding somewhere)
or 3rd BSB Master with Hydra Banner - 202

[Calisson]

The best is to give a try.

CoB does not fit the guerilla theme and is desperately slow (no double march).
BSB - could be rewarding in the 20 DR unit!.

With BSB, I believe your 3rd list should be the closest to the theme, and should be playable as well. Very, very quick, with 3 strong melee units.

The 20 DR unit probably does not need any xb, as only the front rank can shoot. Did you plan to keep them in a single line?
As it is cumbersome anyhow, you could consider giving them a shield and get rank combat resolution.
With the 80 spare points you could add even more DR or harpies,
for example one more 117pts DR unit and make the big unit only 18 strong.

Your big unit remains vulnerable against template weapons.
Also, against ASF High Elves, it will suffer a lot.

Did you consider the potion of strenght and the dragon egg? When facing THE big champion on monster, you'll be happy to get T6 or S7.

I like this army, even if it seems very fragile (lots of T3 troops).

[Lamekh]

Yes I considered the BSB Master with a couple of Banners (Hydra,Dread and ASF) all would be nice, but unfortunately I can only take one.....

The CoB on the other hand isn't mobile but I'll be able to give the unit KB (nice) +1A same as Hydra Banner or 5+ Ward save. I could use the CoB effect on the Hydrae....

As for the shields, I really don't know, being fast cav I can reform and IIRC I all DRs can shoot.
As for shields +1 AS and ranks.... dunno tough one....

[Calisson]

I understand that you intend to present all 20 shooting DR in a single line, then reform if needed.
Note that even a fast cav unit is cumbersome to move around when 20 strong (24 including heroes). Fortunately, it can reform and move and shoot.

However, with mxb fast cav, I notice that:
- you cannot reform while charging
- you do not get any rank bonus,
so the only interest of reforming before charging is to reduce the front. I don't see much interest...
- to reduce the front before getting charged brings no benefit either.

So reforming is going to help you only to get through dense terrain, or to face the direction you want to shoot, am I right? - but not for melee.
And most of the time, you'll just keep your unit 24 wide.

Hence your 24 unit is optimized for shooting, not for melee. So the cost of your characters is not effective.


The other option, with shields, presents the following traits, if I don't forget any:
9" movement, which is a lot.
18" front arc of charge, it covers an incredible surface, and only flying units would hope to get the charge on you - if they get the right distance estimation.
Then, the preferred formation with 20 + 4 heroes would be a 5x5 unit, unless the surface available does not allow that deep a unit.

Sure, in a very big unit, you have trouble to move around and face where you want.
By the way, don't forget the possibility to turn 90° or 180° for 1/4 of your move (replacing FC and heroes on the new front for free), which still leaves you 6.25" more to move.


As a summary, there are the two options with a single big DR unit:
- 24x1, hoping to shoot rather than get into melee (the heroes loose some interest)
- 5x5, picking up the melee you choose - but not shooting.
I'd rather try the shielded ones.


Another option would be to take 4 units of 5 DR rather than a single one of 20 (or slightly less DR and more harpies). Of course, no shields, just rxb and muso.
You would move arond the heroes from one unit to another one according to the needs, or spread them over several units.
There the rings benefit a much smaller unit, but the army is much more easy to run.
If I had that many horses, I'd try this one.
However, it would be still very vulnerable to shooting (template or not).
Harpy screens would be vital.

What do you think?
Are you going to try some of these ideas on a battle field?

[Lamekh]

As a matter of fact I will try the list (DRs shielded or with xbows and see which is better) I do appreciate your input Calisson (especially the tactical input) so thanks for that....

The list is far from finished, so I'll have some more tweaking to do....
- Master BSB - CoB
- Shields - xbows
- Big unit - more smaller ones

[Lamekh]

Raiders of Naggaroth

Dreadlord - xbow,Shield,lance,SDC,AoES,3xShard,Dark Steed - 263
Master - xbow,HA,shield,lance,SDC,Ring of Darkness,Dark Steed - 156
Master - xbow,HA,shield,lance,SDC,Gem, RoH,Dark Steed - 166
Master - xbow,HA,shield,lance,SDC,BSB,Standard of Slaughter,Dark Steed - 172

5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
20 Dark Riders - shields,xbows,FC - 495
(max. CR +8 US:48 + fear)
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55

2 War Hydrae - 350
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Points: 2001 xbows: 34 Killpoints: 18

[Marauder mitch2]

I would like to see the Dreadlors maounted on a manticore as it can give a way in which you can have another US5 rank breaker. You can drop the Standard of slaughter and move the null stones there.

[Lamekh]

In the past I have been disappointed by a single Manti, it dies too quickly,
whereas if your running a dragon or double Mantis they're great.... will consider it though

[Lamekh]

changed the list a little....

Raiders of Naggaroth

Master - xbow,HA,Shield,lance,SDC,3xShard,Dark Steed - 161
Master - xbow,HA,shield,lance,SDC,Ring of Darkness,Dark Steed - 156
Master - xbow,HA,shield,lance,SDC,Gem, RoH,Dark Steed - 166
Master - xbow,HA,shield,lance,SDC,BSB,Standard of Slaughter,Dark Steed - 172

5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
5 Dark Riders - xbows, Muso - 117
16 Dark Riders - shields,xbows,FC - 403
(max. CR +8 US:40 + fear)
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55

5 Shades - GW,LA + Assassin - xhw,Manebane,Stars - 246

2 War Hydrae - 350
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Points: 1998 xbows: 35 + stars Killpoints: 17