The Suicide Elves

Ehakir · Post by **Ehakir** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:42 pm

This is a list I have found on the internet, and I must admit that I was quite surprised by it. I found it at the following link: http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/viewtopic.php?t=49923.
I would like to hear your opinions on the list, and discuss it. I posted this in the tactics forum, because my goal is not to improve the list, but to discuss the tactics behind it. How would you deal with, for example, a bloodthirster/ethereal stuff/unit x?

Dreadlord- Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Ring of Hotek
Hag- BSB, Banner of Hag Graef, Manbane, Rune of Khaine
Assassin- Ahw, Manbane, Rune of Khaine

20 Spear Elves: Shields, Full Command
20 Spear Elves: Shields, Full Command
10 Crossbow Elves: Shields, Musician
10 Corsairs: Handbows, Musician, Champion
5 Harpies
5 Harpies

20 Witch Elves: Full Command, Banner of Murder
20 Executioners: Full Command, War Banner
20 Black Guard: Full Command, Null Talisman
10 Shades: Great Weapons

Total: 2245 points.

The list fields over 100 elves, and contains a more than 50 elites!

What I believe to be the bane of this army are the High Elves; ASF will kill a lot of the troops before they will be able to strike, and their shooting will be of great aid as well.
Now what do you think?

Elven prince · Post by **Elven prince** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:12 pm

What I believe to be the bane of this army are the High Elves; ASF will kill a lot of the troops before they will be able to strike, and their shooting will be of great aid as well.

Dragon Mage would also be worthy investment (did I said that?), mobility/nasty spells and lack of bolt throwers/other monsters in DE army to threaten him.

Against my HE list I would expect to see this list in slight disadvantage (containing two units of spears and two decently sized elite units with few chariots in the mix), curiously my list also lacks shooting elements preferring to focus on combat and magic (something I am not willing to take away). I'd imagine it would be a blood bath with more blood on Dark side.

Kudos to chaps who are running it, I've almost lost hope in people's creativity and good 'ol fashioned desire to get up close and personal.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:35 pm

I think that infantry-based lists can certainly be viable. I won a pretty big tournament once under the 6th Ed. book running an infantry-based army with more than 110 models and featuring 2 units of Executioners. It wasn't a particularly easy army to run, but it could be done, and with the cost of our infantry coming down while the effectiveness has gone up, the option becomes stronger.

I know the request was not for comments on the composition of hte list ... however, I think this particular list could be made better by optimizing the unit sizes and not taking "all-infantry" thing to such an extreme.

Specifically, I think the Executioner and Witch Elf units could each drop down to in size a bit. 7-wide is optimal for these units to maximize atatcks, so 14 models in 2 ranks is enough in my mind. You could also save a few points by dropping the champions from the spear and corsair units, and by decreasing the size of the Shade unit to a max of 7 and maybe even down to 5.

I haven't done the math, but I think this would get you the points for 2 untis of Dark Riders. This would add alot more tactical flexibility to the bait-and-flee game, setting up the elites to be more effective.

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:36 pm

That list belongs to a friend of mine - Joe Sturge. I played against it last week with a similar list. The batrep is due up anytime now so watch out for it...

You will get more of an insight then.

Comrade igor · Post by **Comrade igor** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:50 pm

Very strong army. Just like any DE army these days.

Marauder mitch2 · Post by **Marauder mitch2** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:30 pm

Joe has been using all infantry elves for a while now. He is doing well with the list. Felt sorry for Garys elfs as they killed themselves too quickly but a great report.

Joe created the standard wood elf build but his army are soo pretty.

Slortor · Post by **Slortor** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:29 pm

on the point about optimising unit sizes - these are a bunch of suicidal emo leves

the whole point is these huge blocks of troop and while i agree that they would be better in a different formation it would really spoil the theme.

Joe seems to do pretty well with them anyway...

Oscar1492 · Post by **Oscar1492** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:36 am

these are suicide elves......

BUT the advantages of having so many elves clearly outway the disadvantages of this list.

A shooty army such as HE will kill a fair few of the elves before they get there, but if you place the WE,Exec and BG behind the trusty spearmen they should be in charging distance just as the last of the spearmen die which makes it a scary prospect for high elf players :twisted:

Oscar1492 · Post by **Oscar1492** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:41 am

ow it will also be scary for any other armies that want to face the might of the DE

Druchii77 · Post by **Druchii77** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:57 pm

I find that lists like these tend to struggle against evasive Wood Elf armies that shoot a bit. Otherwise, they are quite strong.

Promises · Post by **Promises** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:42 pm

Joe doesnt post on these forums tho does he? I'm an unbelievable fan of his batreps, awesomely written, good pictures, they just make you want to play Warhammer as soon as you read m

Enfant terrible · Post by **Enfant terrible** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:57 pm

Hmmm ... I was surprised not to see a CoB in here ...

Post by **Dark Alliance** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:03 pm

Promises wrote:Joe doesnt post on these forums tho does he? I'm an unbelievable fan of his batreps, awesomely written, good pictures, they just make you want to play Warhammer as soon as you read m

Funnily enough, he posts here as Joe Sturge. Check the batreps forum.

Enfant terrible · Post by **Enfant terrible** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:07 pm

[EDIT: ] DA posted right before I did - so I didn't have the answer to my Q - when i punched "submit": I now know that Joe Sturge is on D-net ... [/EDIT ]

And may I add - after following the link in the beginning of the thread - what MARVELOUS Battlereps! Isn't he in druchii.net??

Ehakir · Post by **Ehakir** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:33 pm

So you can conclude that it is a competative list that can win battles, but to maximize its strengths you should tweak it a bit. A competative DE fun list?

Promises · Post by **Promises** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:35 am

Dark Alliance wrote:Funnily enough, he posts here as Joe Sturge. Check the batreps forum.

Ah yea I see now, I must've been blind ^^

About the Suicide list, in my opinion the list is just a fun to play list that can indeed be competetive, its just takes some skill to play, gives pretty much each and every opponent a good shot at victory and usually leads to a fun and brutal game. As such it's one of the better lists around, since we all want a fun game right ^^

Marauder mitch2 · Post by **Marauder mitch2** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:19 pm

I have just started using my varient of Suicide Elves and it is a good list to run. A lot of armies struggle with the amount of static the army has but you need more than 1 hammer, and with the stubborn khaintes as well.

Darkspear · Post by **Darkspear** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:10 am

A friend of mine got inspired and tried the very same list vs chaos. (I wasn't involved in the game but I witness it).

I do not find the list very inspiring as many of the spearmen end up dying needlessly. Like some d.netters, I feel that the list will work better after adjusting some of the unit sizes.

All in all the concept is fine but I think it can work better with msu.