New FAQ - 50% Lords and Heroes now are a Part of the BRB

[Olliewood]

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/P ... OKv1.9.pdf

and boom

[Clockwork]

TWF will go into meltdown!

[Helle]

The Lore of Undeath is available to any Wizard.

Everyone can summon zombies now! BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSS

[Olliewood]

As a race I think we are a huge winner with this ruling. PEG MASTER SPAM anyone!!

[Amboadine]

........wow
That single sentence will change the whole game. Back to herohammer we go or is it now 'Zombie herohammer'

Shame they didn't update anything else though.

[Clockwork]

........wow
That single sentence will change the whole game. Back to herohammer we go or is it now 'Zombie herohammer'

Shame they didn't update anything else though.

Yup. Can't say I'm too happy about the change in principal. In practice, I just won't voluntarily play anyone at the club with triple Daemon Prince lists, whilst most tournaments will comp that sort of thing anyway.

[Dalamar]

Good luck with pegmaster spam once you realize you can't break any unit bigger than a few ranks.

I've already been prepping for this. Lore of metal and lore of death will become my close friends.

Yup. Can't say I'm too happy about the change in principal. In practice, I just won't voluntarily play anyone at the club with triple Daemon Prince lists, whilst most tournaments will comp that sort of thing anyway.

And this is why I've been disappointed with warhammer community as of late.
How many games have you played so far with the new rules? How did they go?

[direweasel]

Ridiculous. so you could have lists with the 25% core requirement, and then the rest of the force just be characters all around. Whether that's good for dark elves as an army or not aside, I don't like what it does to the game.

[direweasel]

The Lore of Undeath is available to any Wizard.

Everyone can summon zombies now! BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSS

...well, everyone that has those officially licensed GW zombie minis on hand can. And now you see their real plan.

[Dalamar]

Ridiculous. so you could have lists with the 25% core requirement, and then the rest of the force just be characters all around. Whether that's good for dark elves as an army or not aside, I don't like what it does to the game.

Yes you can, I wouldn't recommend it because you won't win and your opponent won't have a lot of fun but you can.

[Amboadine]

I must retract my last comment. They created a Wood elf FAQ with a single errata.......

It regards Shroud of Despair.

[direweasel]

Ridiculous. so you could have lists with the 25% core requirement, and then the rest of the force just be characters all around. Whether that's good for dark elves as an army or not aside, I don't like what it does to the game.

Yes you can, I wouldn't recommend it because you won't win and your opponent won't have a lot of fun but you can.

Well, I personally wouldn't, and I don't think that is a good option for Dark Elves (we have great special and rare choices), but I could certainly see some other armies taking this route. Just the fact that it's possible means that there will be people in pretty much every gaming group ever (come on, you all know you have that ONE guy, at least), that will do it.

[Dalamar]

Yes, they will do it. Then they will realize it sucks and stop doing it. Herohammer this is not when any number of heroes can get bogged down in a unit of skavenslaves.

[Clockwork]

How many games have you played so far with the new rules? How did they go?

None, but I don't think I've made my point too clear. Its perfectly possible to write fun and balanced lists with 50% character choices. Those are fine and I'm happy to play them. But you have to admit that its also extremely exploitable, and I've no time for that in friendly games. Most tournaments have comp systems so I don't need to worry about it too much in competitive play (although Blood and Glory next month will certainly be interesting!). But I'll point out that out of the top 4 players at Blackout - the first event using End Times rules and no comp, although some funky monster rules - third and fourth place were Warriors players with two Daemon Princes each (second was two Keeper of Secrets, and first was a Dwarf gunline. Go figure).

Yes, they will do it. Then they will realize it sucks and stop doing it. Herohammer this is not when any number of heroes can get bogged down in a unit of skavenslaves.

Whilst I agree that there are ways to mitigate lone heroes, this is a fallacy. Why would anyone with three flying Daemon Princes, or any flying character in general, willingly charge into a unit of skavenslaves? Does every army have lots of disposable units to use in that fashion?

[Olliewood]

Here is blackout's top ten:
1 - Kris Robertson - Dwarfs - WWW
2 - Tim Fisher - Daemons of Chaos - Dragon Slayers
3 - Ben Diesel - Warriors of Chaos - The Black Sun
4 - Dom Hook - Warriors of Chaos - The Black Sun
5 - Matthew Lee - Ogre Kingdoms - The Black Sun
6 - Dan Heelan - Lizardmen - Pompey Pirates
7 - Byron Orde - High Elves
8 - Scott Lines - Wood Elves - The Black Sun
9 - Richard Ciereszko - Warriors of Chaos - WWW
10 - Gary Hennessey - Daemons of Chaos - The Black Sun

Waaagh Paaca and Blood and Glory will both be using the New Rules (no longer known as End Time Rules as now they are in the BRB).

I have been playing a lot of games prepping for a Waagh Paca Primer. My normal opponent (who just won Screw City) is running Nagash. I am outclassed by my opponent by a long shot but have been competitive in each game and had an absolute blast. The lore of undeath is nasty when Nagash is casting but I don't see it as a viable option for most armies.

I wouldn't right off Peg Spam lists so quickly - the table just got bigger....

[Dalamar]

So the first was a dwarf gunline... hmm, might have something to do with an ability to deal with expensive solo characters. So now people who lost to a dwarf of all armies will wake up and realize characters don't make an army.

Why would three demon princes engage? Simple, otherwise they won't win the game. In a proper army there will be a unit (or two!) That is valuable and too big or tough to deal with at range. They have to be engaged.
And yes, every army should be built with disposable units in mind, bot necessarily skaven slaves.

Even dark riders can hold a demon prince for a turn when necessary.

[Clockwork]

So the first was a dwarf gunline... hmm, might have something to do with an ability to deal with expensive solo characters. So now people who lost to a dwarf of all armies will wake up and realize characters don't make an army.

Why would three demon princes engage? Simple, otherwise they won't win the game. In a proper army there will be a unit (or two!) That is valuable and too big or tough to deal with at range. They have to be engaged.
And yes, every army should be built with disposable units in mind, bot necessarily skaven slaves.

Even dark riders can hold a demon prince for a turn when necessary.

Actually, I think its more to do with the event encouraging people to take big monsters (everyone got to take up to 300 points of Scrolls, for instance, and I believe most had dragons).

But these big, disposable units that can tarpit lone characters don't give away any points, otherwise they'd be useless in that role. So, again, why charge into them at all if you can just fly around them and get to the actual points? To keep with the Daemon Princes, what does the Warriors of Chaos 'net list' lose by dropping the 800 points it would spend on Chimeras and the like, that it doesn't gain by replacing with two more Daemon Princes?

For the record, I think Dark Elves are able to deal with 50% characters because they are a well written book. For instance, I'm not planning on using the 50% allowance or changing my lists radically because I think its balanced enough to cope. Its the other books and the cumulative effect on the game that I'm concerned about. My Lizardmen are going back in the cupboard until there's an opportunity to bring them out, because I don't feel that there's anyway way that they can adapt (even with being able to bring more Scar-Vets).

[Gidean]

Good luck with pegmaster spam once you realize you can't break any unit bigger than a few ranks.

I've already been prepping for this. Lore of metal and lore of death will become my close friends.

Yup. Can't say I'm too happy about the change in principal. In practice, I just won't voluntarily play anyone at the club with triple Daemon Prince lists, whilst most tournaments will comp that sort of thing anyway.

And this is why I've been disappointed with warhammer community as of late.
How many games have you played so far with the new rules? How did they go?

None. I sort of feel like Clockwork does but will adapt and will use the new lore. Least now we can buy a dragon lord AND a level 4!

[Dalamar]

Because as fun as it sounds, flying around proper tarpits is impossible in a well constructed tarpit army.

And if there are gaps, then the army is prepared to deal with anything attempting to exploit them.

[Clockwork]

Because as fun as it sounds, flying around proper tarpits is impossible in a well constructed tarpit army.

And if there are gaps, then the army is prepared to deal with anything attempting to exploit them.

An example of a well constructed tarpit army would be worthwhile, otherwise we're just talking hypotheticals.

[Olliewood]

I agree Clockwork - my initial reaction to a flying character getting trapped in a tar pit is - Your doing it wrong.

[T.D.]

We are now officially in the Titan era of FB.

I want to try out a fleet of Manticores before I pass judgment

[Gidean]

I agree Clockwork - my initial reaction to a flying character getting trapped in a tar pit is - Your doing it wrong.

We can field redirectors and a tarpit too. I can't see an opponent having more than 2 such units (tarpits) and it should be very easy to fly around them. I mean look at the DE Cav armies that seem to successfully avoid the tarpits. Right? A triple peg Master charge will bust most elites. Your opponent has to have something that can do damage, right?

I can very well see running a Lord on a Dragon and a Level 4 on a steed. This will cost about 30% of my army. Impossible before but doable now without terribly upsetting game balance and still using a lot of other troops.

[Olliewood]

Preach on Gidean! and how do I do the cool quote response thing?

[Dalamar]

I will have to run a double dragon list at least once